Dear Democrat be scarred, be very scarred.

Here’s a clear eyed take on our current crisis of awareness, it’s worth considering.

Trump’s Road to 2024 Roger Cohen - OCT. 20, 2017 PHOENIX — There are now two definitions of truth in the United States. The first is that a truthful statement is one that conforms to facts or reality. By this standard, President Trump is a serial liar. The second is that truth is “telling it like it is," or speaking in a direct, unvarnished way without regard to political correctness or the offense it may give. By this measure, for millions of supporters, Trump is the most honest president ever. The United States has already become a post-truth society. Telling it like it isn’t has become a form of truth. That’s a nation in which chaos is more plausible because the ability to make rational decisions is diminished. Signal and noise can no longer be distinguished. The center, where it was long held that elections are won, evaporates. Violence becomes more likely because incomprehension grows across hardening lines of fracture. It may well be that elections, as with the last presidential race, are now won at the extremes. ... Those nerves still tingle. Nine months into the presidency, the support of Trump’s base remains fervid. I am often asked whether I believe that Trump will be impeached. I’ve taken to responding that it’s more likely he’ll be a two-term president. I’d put the chances of impeachment at under 10 percent and of his re-election at about 25 percent. ... That’s partly because the Democratic Party has not yet begun a serious reckoning with its defeat last year. It hasn’t grasped the degree to which it lives, still, in a coastal echo chamber of identity politics and Trump-bashing. Just being anti-Trump won’t cut it.
any discussion?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/20/opinion/trumps-road-to-2024.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/20/opinion/trumps-road-to-2024.html
I like the conclusion of the article, "An overriding lesson of 2016 for liberals is that without hard-nosed realism about the state of the country and Trump’s talents, you lose. And that’s the truth.", with some doubts on 'Trump's talents'. I think the Democrats, including Hillary Clinton, lost due to their problems of not realizing the state of the country and of the world, and not so much due to Trump's talents. Following were some of their problems. 1) Immigration should be through legal means; the Democrats were perceived to be too soft on illegal immigration to the USA. 2) The Democrats were perceived to be for accommodating Islamic fanaticism in the USA. 3) The Democrats were perceived to be weak on prospective refugees that could turn into Islamic terrorists after getting shelter in the USA. 4) The high increase in the Obama Care premiums in many parts of the country. Some of these perceptions could be argued to be wrong; but the Democrats failed to clarify that to the voters, especially in the rural areas where there were very few recent naturalized citizens, Blacks and Hispanics.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/20/opinion/trumps-road-to-2024.html
I like the conclusion of the article, "An overriding lesson of 2016 for liberals is that without hard-nosed realism about the state of the country and Trump’s talents, you lose. And that’s the truth.", with some doubts on 'Trump's talents'. I think the Democrats, including Hillary Clinton, lost due to their problems of not realizing the state of the country and of the world, and not so much due to Trump's talents. Following were some of their problems. 1) Immigration should be through legal means; the Democrats were perceived to be too soft on illegal immigration to the USA. 2) The Democrats were perceived to be for accommodating Islamic fanaticism in the USA. 3) The Democrats were perceived to be weak on prospective refugees that could turn into Islamic terrorists after getting shelter in the USA. 4) The high increase in the Obama Care premiums in many parts of the country. Some of these perceptions could be argued to be wrong; but the Democrats failed to clarify that to the voters, especially in the rural areas where there were very few recent naturalized citizens, Blacks and Hispanics.Dead wrong. Hillary and the Dems won by a wide margin. The problem is, the US isn't a democracy. It uses the undemocratic institution called the Electoral College. Had this been a true democracy, popular vote, the Dems would have won both this time and in 2000. THAT's what needs to change, not some goofy set of ideas. When it comes to ideas, Dems and Liberals win hand over fist.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/20/opinion/trumps-road-to-2024.html
I like the conclusion of the article, "An overriding lesson of 2016 for liberals is that without hard-nosed realism about the state of the country and Trump’s talents, you lose. And that’s the truth.", with some doubts on 'Trump's talents'. I think the Democrats, including Hillary Clinton, lost due to their problems of not realizing the state of the country and of the world, and not so much due to Trump's talents. Following were some of their problems. 1) Immigration should be through legal means; the Democrats were perceived to be too soft on illegal immigration to the USA. 2) The Democrats were perceived to be for accommodating Islamic fanaticism in the USA. 3) The Democrats were perceived to be weak on prospective refugees that could turn into Islamic terrorists after getting shelter in the USA. 4) The high increase in the Obama Care premiums in many parts of the country. Some of these perceptions could be argued to be wrong; but the Democrats failed to clarify that to the voters, especially in the rural areas where there were very few recent naturalized citizens, Blacks and Hispanics.Dead wrong. Hillary and the Dems won by a wide margin. The problem is, the US isn't a democracy. It uses the undemocratic institution called the Electoral College. Had this been a true democracy, popular vote, the Dems would have won both this time and in 2000. THAT's what needs to change, not some goofy set of ideas. When it comes to ideas, Dems and Liberals win hand over fist. Well, the USA is not just America; it is a union of autonomous states of America. That is why there was the Great Compromise, by which the states had equal voting power in the Senate, while the House of Representatives provided more power to the bigger states. The Electoral College system also provides 'unfair' power, like in the Senate, to smaller states. It is also like recognizing each state as a state, as opposed to just a territory in America. Arguments can be made for both for and against the system; but I do not see dissolution of it in the horizon.
Dead wrong. Hillary and the Dems won by a wide margin. The problem is, the US isn't a democracy.
So it ain't a perfect democracy, perhaps being liberal is sort of like being black, you simply have to work twice as hard. The problem is Democrats have no vision or cojones anymore. No vision regarding the problems we're in, or how we allowed them to fester and metastasize. Let alone how to confront our future. No ability to rouse people to take up the challenge. No ability to enunciate what the challenge is. No interest in getting out of their chosen comfort zones. Like Clinton's dick, and Gore's limp campaign, Clinton's smugness, never taking things as seriously as they needed to be taken. Nothing has seemed to change. Until someone figures out the key to waking up liberal minded masses to real global politics and the current hostile takeover bid of these mega-corporate oligarchs, we'll keep taking it. But then we are the naive countrymen who allowed mega consolidation to happen without ever giving it a second thought. Who cared if they got bigger than governments who were dedicated to the people by the people. Now we got Trump, etc. with only SELF-interest and Profits Über Alles on their minds and in their hearts and so on and so for, and so it goes. :long: wish it weren't so, if anyone hears a heartbeat anywhere within the Democratic Party please do let me know. I'd love to be witness to that.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/20/opinion/trumps-road-to-2024.html
I like the conclusion of the article, "An overriding lesson of 2016 for liberals is that without hard-nosed realism about the state of the country and Trump’s talents, you lose. And that’s the truth.", with some doubts on 'Trump's talents'. I think the Democrats, including Hillary Clinton, lost due to their problems of not realizing the state of the country and of the world, and not so much due to Trump's talents. Following were some of their problems. 1) Immigration should be through legal means; the Democrats were perceived to be too soft on illegal immigration to the USA. 2) The Democrats were perceived to be for accommodating Islamic fanaticism in the USA. 3) The Democrats were perceived to be weak on prospective refugees that could turn into Islamic terrorists after getting shelter in the USA. 4) The high increase in the Obama Care premiums in many parts of the country. Some of these perceptions could be argued to be wrong; but the Democrats failed to clarify that to the voters, especially in the rural areas where there were very few recent naturalized citizens, Blacks and Hispanics.Dead wrong. Hillary and the Dems won by a wide margin. The problem is, the US isn't a democracy. It uses the undemocratic institution called the Electoral College. Had this been a true democracy, popular vote, the Dems would have won both this time and in 2000. THAT's what needs to change, not some goofy set of ideas. When it comes to ideas, Dems and Liberals win hand over fist. Well, the USA is not just America; it is a union of autonomous states of America. That is why there was the Great Compromise, by which the states had equal voting power in the Senate, while the House of Representatives provided more power to the bigger states. The Electoral College system also provides 'unfair' power, like in the Senate, to smaller states. It is also like recognizing each state as a state, as opposed to just a territory in America. Arguments can be made for both for and against the system; but I do not see dissolution of it in the horizon.Actually it doesn't need dissolution, it needs sidestepping, or making it meaningless: http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/

Oh boy, time for more pop corn. :smirk:

Inside Hillary Clinton’s Secret Takeover of the DNC When I was asked to run the Democratic Party after the Russians hacked our emails, I stumbled onto a shocking truth about the Clinton campaign. By DONNA BRAZILE November 02, 2017 - Politico https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/02/clinton-brazile-hacks-2016-215774
Rep. Tulsi Gabbard on Donna Brazile's DNC Bombshell Published on Nov 2, 2017 - TheRealNews https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2PHwuIERms Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D-Hawaii), a prominent supporter of Bernie Sanders' 2016 bid, responds to former interim chair Donna Brazile's revelation that the Clinton campaign had effective control of the DNC

That Politico story by Donna Brazile was very demoralizing. Then came Tuesday. Nice to see a pulse.

With Virginia, Voters Give Democrats First Big Wins of the Trump Era By JONATHAN MARTIN and ALEXANDER BURNS - NOV. 7, 2017 https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/us/politics/virginia-election-democrats.html FAIRFAX, Va. — Voters delivered their first forceful rebuke of President Trump and his party on Tuesday night, with Democrats exploiting Mr. Trump’s deep unpopularity to capture the governorships in Virginia and New Jersey and make significant inroads into suburban communities that once favored the Republican Party. The Democratic Party’s crowning success of the night came in Virginia, where Lt. Gov. Ralph S. Northam, an understated physician and Army veteran, won a commanding victory for governor, overcoming a racially charged campaign by his Republican opponent and cementing Virginia’s transformation into a reliably Democratic state largely immune to Trump-style appeals. Mr. Northam was propelled to victory over Ed Gillespie, the Republican nominee, by liberal and moderate voters who were eager to send a message to Mr. Trump in a state that rejected him in 2016. Mr. Northam led Mr. Gillespie by nearly nine percentage points with 99 percent of precincts reporting, the widest victory in decades for a Democratic candidate for governor of Virginia. ...
Yeah baby, pissed off citizens getting out there and voting. If you say the system is rigged, so much for reason to get out and vote, particularly given how clear cut differences between the oligarch sycophants the GOP, and the Democrats who at least still believe in regular people and rationally evaluating evidence and constructive results. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/11/07/winners-and-losers-from-election-day-2017 http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/07/politics/5-takeaways-election-virginia-governor-trump/index.html (yeah, but don't slip into the usual complacency)

No, don’t be scared, that’s complete bullshit.
Listen to the words of Franklin Roosevelt who led America through the great Depression and WW II… from a wheelchair.
“The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.”
The Democratic party is re-inventing itself with the Justice Democrats. Support them and don’t give into this neghead BS.
Stand for something while the soul dead republican party falls for everything… including trump as president.
biggest joke ever…

o9

No, don't be scared, that's complete bullshit. Listen to the words of Franklin Roosevelt who led America through the great Depression and WW II... from a wheelchair. "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." The Democratic party is re-inventing itself with the Justice Democrats. Support them and don't give into this neghead BS. Stand for something while the soul dead republican party falls for everything... including trump as president. biggest joke ever...
Sure okay. It's in the title as a rhetorical device - Democrats and liberals in general have had a tendency to be way the hell complacent. Fear is a very healthy energizer and focusing agent. For many it's the only thing that gets their attention. If more people had thought about the reality of men like Trump and pals taking over our government, I bet there'd have been a lot more liberal minded folks voting. I ask you how does one gently, politely ask people to get off their lazy asses and engage - got any suggestions? Although your not the smoothest writer under fire either, still would love to hear your ideas. Justice Democrats??? - have you mention them over here before? I'll admit my bandwidth is relatively narrow and I wasn't familiar with them, nor recall you mentioning them before. If I missed it, shame on me, if you've never mentioned them at CFI shame on you. :) If you're familiar with them, tell us more in a clearly titled thread. :kiss: PS. Well guess it wasn't all rhetorical, reading the news put me in a state of fear, for real, but that doesn't mean it paralyzes me.

Oops and there I go forgetting to add the link myself.
For what it’s worth Doug I signed up for their newsletter.

https://justicedemocrats.com The Democratic Party is broken, and the corporate wing of the party is responsible. By aligning with Wall Street over working men and women, the Democratic Party has allowed Republicans to take over most state legislatures, most governorships, Congress, and the presidency. The solution is not unity with the corporate-backed Democrats. The solution is to challenge them and replace every single one of them with people who will fight for voters, not donors. It’s time to rebuild the Democratic Party from scratch to be a party that fights for a clear progressive vision.

I’ll admit I’m morbidly fascinated by the investigations into Russia’s meddling into our election process and playing a key role getting a serial liar and unhinged narcissist along with his Burn’Baby Burn Alt-right tea-party juvenile delinquents in charge of our government - but there is a down side worth pondering.

Why Putin’s Foes Deplore U.S. Fixation on Election Meddling By ANDREW HIGGINS - NOV. 23, 2017 https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/23/world/europe/russia-vladimir-putin-liberals.html Mr. Volkov and others say they have no doubt that Russia did interfere, at least on the margins, in last year’s presidential election campaign. But they complain that the United States consistently inflates Mr. Putin’s impact and portrays his government as far more unified and effective than it really is, cementing his legacy and making him harder to challenge at home. Ultimately, they say, Americans are using Russia as a scapegoat to explain the deep political discord in the United States. That has left many westward-leaning Russians, who have long looked to America for their ideals, in bitter disappointment that the United States seems to be mimicking some of their own country’s least appealing traits. ... “American liberals are so upset about Trump that they cannot believe he is a real product of American life," Mr. Kurilla said. “They try to portray him as something created by Russia. This whole thing is about America, not Russia." ... Michael Idov, a Russian-American screenwriter, author and former magazine editor, said the idea that Mr. Putin, through hacking, fake news and other tools, could outfox and disorient the world’s most powerful democratic nation makes the Russian president look invincible. But this image of a “globally victorious Putin is hard to accept when you can’t even find decent cheese in Moscow" because of Western sanctions and Russian countersanctions, Mr. Idov said. ...
No, don't be scared, that's complete bullshit. ...
I think it's the collective silence and apathy I find most terrifying.

Another interesting read for this collection.

What I learned from the Ohio newspaper editor who endorsed Donald Trump should scare all liberals By hammerinhank Sunday Dec 17, 2017 https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/12/17/1725205/-What-I-learned-from-the-Ohio-newspaper-editor-who-endorsed-Donald-Trump-should-scare-all-liberals The vast cultural schism, not economics, has driven white rural voters away from the Democratic Party – perhaps forever. I recently visited Hillsboro, Ohio, a small town of 6,600 in southern Ohio. ... What I learned was frightening for those who believe in the liberal policies and underlying morality represented by the Democratic Party. ... In the mainstream media, Hillsboro has become synonymous with Gary Abernathy, the savvy publisher-editor of the local newspaper, the Times-Gazette. ...
Where do we go from here?
Where do we go from here?
I didn't see much prescient-ness there, "rural voters attracted to his lack of political correctness", who didn't know that? The maps don't impress me either, most of that red is fields and rocks and otherwise uninhabited. Rural America does not have some insight into how corrupt our political system. Pretty sure it was liberals in cities that first pointed that out.
Where do we go from here?
I didn't see much prescient-ness there, "rural voters attracted to his lack of political correctness", who didn't know that? The maps don't impress me either, most of that red is fields and rocks and otherwise uninhabited. Rural America does not have some insight into how corrupt our political system. Pretty sure it was liberals in cities that first pointed that out.I think that's missing the point.
In Hillsboro, Abernathy and I chatted in his office. We agreed that it was the cultural divide, not economics, which primarily created the Trump phenomenon. It’s not that people in Highland County are actually affected by immigration, or terrorism (when was the last attack on U.S. soil in a small town?), or even political correctness run amok. But they voted for Trump largely because of those subjects, and the fears and resentments they engendered. I BELIEVE THAT A LARGE SWATH OF THE WHITE POPULATION IN HILLSBORO (AND THOUSANDS OF PLACES LIKE IT AROUND THE COUNTRY) SIMPLY BELIEVE THAT AMERICA IS NO LONGER A PLACE THEY RECOGNIZE. AND THEY DON’T LIKE IT. Many of these people are filled with an underlying fear and resentment of how America has changed, and will continue to evolve in the future. Or perhaps they have nostalgia for the days when America was whiter and straighter, where women knew their place, and where football players didn’t celebrate touchdowns by pounding their chests. In either case, a huge number of rural whites see the Democratic Party as the embodiment of this “different" country.

¶§
Of course, that leads right into the Politics of Resentment.

The Politics of Resentment RURAL CONSCIOUSNESS IN WISCONSIN AND THE RISE OF SCOTT WALKER http://www.press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/P/bo22879533.html Since the election of Scott Walker, Wisconsin has been seen as ground zero for debates about the appropriate role of government in the wake of the Great Recession. In a time of rising inequality, Walker not only survived a bitterly contested recall that brought thousands of protesters to Capitol Square, he was subsequently reelected. How could this happen? How is it that the very people who stand to benefit from strong government services not only vote against the candidates who support those services but are vehemently against the very idea of big government? With The Politics of Resentment, Katherine J. Cramer uncovers an oft-overlooked piece of the puzzle: rural political consciousness and the resentment of the “liberal elite." Rural voters are distrustful that politicians will respect the distinct values of their communities and allocate a fair share of resources. ...
Of course all of this also has to do with our unwillingness (perhaps inability) to engage in constructive dialogue, (take the pea shooter for example) and fear of intelligent fact based confrontation of the lies being produced by those ever present Masters of the Universe the Koches and Murdochs and their bottomless pit of money and megaphone enough to distort and destroy all attempts at constructive communication.
¶ Of course all of this also has to do with our unwillingness (perhaps inability) to engage in constructive dialogue, (take the pea shooter for example) and fear of intelligent fact based confrontation of the lies being produced by those ever present Masters of the Universe the Koches and Murdochs and their bottomless pit of money and megaphone enough to distort and destroy all attempts at constructive communication.
I'm missing how your articles support this. I think it is the Kochs and Murdochs who know how distort the truth and de-legitimize knowledge based on facts. That's why arguing by starting with facts does not work. If you can find the emotional appeal you might get somewhere. I try to shift to a values based discussion, and I often get agreement, but I also often can't get them accept that we agree. It ends with something like, "well, I agree we need air to breathe, but you libtards are ruining it all". I think don't recognize America, but they don't want to say that the America they want was a horrible place for most of its inhabitants. Not horrible compared to Russia or the Mid-East, but horrible for people not wanting their ass grabbed at work or to be able to hold hands in public.
¶ Of course all of this also has to do with our unwillingness (perhaps inability) to engage in constructive dialogue, (take the pea shooter for example) and fear of intelligent fact based confrontation of the lies being produced by those ever present Masters of the Universe the Koches and Murdochs and their bottomless pit of money and megaphone enough to distort and destroy all attempts at constructive communication.
I'm missing how your articles support this. I think it is the Kochs and Murdochs who know how distort the truth and de-legitimize knowledge based on facts. That's why arguing by starting with facts does not work. If you can find the emotional appeal you might get somewhere. I try to shift to a values based discussion, and I often get agreement, but I also often can't get them accept that we agree. It ends with something like, "well, I agree we need air to breathe, but you libtards are ruining it all". I think don't recognize America, but they don't want to say that the America they want was a horrible place for most of its inhabitants. Not horrible compared to Russia or the Mid-East, but horrible for people not wanting their ass grabbed at work or to be able to hold hands in public. Sorry don't have the time to really focus on this. I basically agree with you. The Koch, Murdoch, things comes in with FOX news and all those phony think tanks and the constant messaging of lies and fear and outrage and divisiveness, etc that the public has been subjected to going back to Nixon/Reagan operatives and the death of TV's equal time doctrine and the Corporate oligarch switch in focus to Profits Über Alles and Ayn Rands contempt for Enlightened Self Interest and all that jazz. Follow my drift? later.