Building the Great Wall of America

John Oliver did a great show on how much trump’s xenophobic border wall will cost. Trump starts at $4 billion then escalates that over time to $12 billion. According to the research that Oliver did it will cost $25 billion to build, billions a year to maintain and can easily be scaled by ladders and rope. About half illegal immigrants come to the US on valid visas anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU8dCYocuyI

I saw that. As I recall, Oliver also said that over or after 7 years, there would be another 25 billion in maintenance costs. And all of this estimate does not include other costs such as those incurred in land rights.

I saw that. As I recall, Oliver also said that over or after 7 years, there would be another 25 billion in maintenance costs. And all of this estimate does not include other costs such as those incurred in land rights.
Exactly, so much for Trump as a sound businessman.

I googled John Oliver. John William Oliver is an English comedian, political commentator, television host, and occasional actor. Wikipedia
Yeah Doug, are you getting most of your news and information from SNL and other Late Night Comedy outlets?
Is this what we have come to?
We could start with whether or not you think illegal immigration is a problem in the US. Now and in the future.
From there we can pivot to the fact that a real dialog has been opened by Trump on the matter.
I shouldn’t say “we” because I’m really tired of debating the issue here.

Yeah Doug, are you getting most of your news and information from SNL and other Late Night Comedy outlets? Is this what we have come to?
Unfortunately it appears so. When media news has become another profits über-alles slave - what can you expect - entertainment, shock'n awe, but not so much with that substance thing.
The double devolution of the GOP and the U.S. media By Jon Perr | Sunday Dec 13, 2015 http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/12/13/1458777/-The-double-devolution-of-the-GOP-and-the-U-S-media Months after Donald Trump cemented his frontrunner status, the American media and the Republican Party are now approaching a state of panic. Press and pundits have scrambled to explain how Trump—despite his blatant lies, casual race-baiting, religious bigotry and shameless xenophobia—has in the face of their predictions of his certain doom nevertheless tightened his grip on the 2016 GOP race for the White House. Meanwhile, GOP leaders fearful of an Election Day disaster with Trump at the top of their ticket are mobilizing the resources and an arsenal of talking points to prevent that from happening. To which one can only reply: A plague on both your houses. The hate machine that Donald Trump embodies isn’t an aberration, but the natural culmination of the intertwined, downward spirals of the conservative movement and its U.S. media enablers. After all, the GOP long ago entered an era of “post-fact" politics in which morality tales and stories of good and evil replaced facts and science as the basis for winning elections and setting public policy. And as it turns out, the Republicans’ largely successful descent into degeneracy was only made possible by the concurrent decline of American journalism. Having abandoned the search for objective truth as its mission, most of the U.S. media are now solely in the entertainment business. In this new environment, all issues are framed as having two—and only two—sides, with the loudest voice in the “debate" being declared the winner.
Oh and before you howl, just because it comes from a bunch of commies, doesn't mean they don't make yet another good point. ;-P
Oh and before you howl, just because it comes from a bunch of commies, doesn't mean they don't make yet another good point. ;-P
CC, how often do you see me posting any journalist pieces on this forum? Maybe 3 times a year.... You? Every damn day! Constantly. Enough said.
I googled John Oliver. John William Oliver is an English comedian, political commentator, television host, and occasional actor. Wikipedia Yeah Doug, are you getting most of your news and information from SNL and other Late Night Comedy outlets? Is this what we have come to? We could start with whether or not you think illegal immigration is a problem in the US. Now and in the future. From there we can pivot to the fact that a real dialog has been opened by Trump on the matter. I shouldn't say "we" because I'm really tired of debating the issue here.
Who's come from the Daily Show with Jon Stewart. In case you've missed it, some "comedians" have become much more than entertainers in the US. Like this brilliant bit from Stephen Colbert https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWqzLgDc030 The sad fact is that people like Stewart and Oliver are doing the kind of investigation that used to be performed by the MSM. The reason what they do is funny is they are often much closer to the facts than the real "journalists" who are more interested in packaging the message in political terms. A comedian doesn't have to worry about that. I could point to any number of brilliant pieces put together by John Oliver that cut through the crap in a way that actual journalism never seems to anymore.
Oh and before you howl, just because it comes from a bunch of commies, doesn't mean they don't make yet another good point. ;-P
CC, how often do you see me posting any journalist pieces on this forum? Maybe 3 times a year.... You? Every damn day! Constantly. Enough said.Oh dear now we're up-set because I share some interesting articles.
I googled John Oliver. John William Oliver is an English comedian, political commentator, television host, and occasional actor. Wikipedia Yeah Doug, are you getting most of your news and information from SNL and other Late Night Comedy outlets? Is this what we have come to? We could start with whether or not you think illegal immigration is a problem in the US. Now and in the future. From there we can pivot to the fact that a real dialog has been opened by Trump on the matter. I shouldn't say "we" because I'm really tired of debating the issue here.
Who's come from the Daily Show with Jon Stewart. In case you've missed it, some "comedians" have become much more than entertainers in the US. Like this brilliant bit from Stephen Colbert https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWqzLgDc030 The sad fact is that people like Stewart and Oliver are doing the kind of investigation that used to be performed by the MSM. The reason what they do is funny is they are often much closer to the facts than the real "journalists" who are more interested in packaging the message in political terms. A comedian doesn't have to worry about that. I could point to any number of brilliant pieces put together by John Oliver that cut through the crap in a way that actual journalism never seems to anymore. Indeed. Take a random hour of any all day TV news outlet and a random John Oliver Weekly show, and compare which is more informative.
I googled John Oliver. John William Oliver is an English comedian, political commentator, television host, and occasional actor. Wikipedia Yeah Doug, are you getting most of your news and information from SNL and other Late Night Comedy outlets? Is this what we have come to? We could start with whether or not you think illegal immigration is a problem in the US. Now and in the future. From there we can pivot to the fact that a real dialog has been opened by Trump on the matter. I shouldn't say "we" because I'm really tired of debating the issue here.
Do you know which logical fallacy you just committed?
Indeed. Take a random hour of any all day TV news outlet and a random John Oliver Weekly show, and compare which is more informative.
Okay, I picked a random Last Week Tonight on what an absolute rip-off televangelism is, I seriously doubt anyone else is doing anything close to this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg edit- and look what followed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUndxpbufkg&ebc=ANyPxKrYXXJlMb-P_Y9ADiqJbIKb6IdUvEK-DBVrUIFrHPvv5k3bHW3HNoBgb41v7z78OvYfifb1qSvPcIq0wfCHTItUzuewSg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwkqh3lCgvw&ebc=ANyPxKqWOOyubXTQGAvvAk-ukjfnkhtFMoeADv9i3RQkO6QTijFtzrwcG1ouc-BUC69o-HrTJnrx5qMLZy8uRwaZ35P9RXIIqA
John Oliver did a great show on how much trump's xenophobic border wall will cost. Trump starts at $4 billion then escalates that over time to $12 billion. According to the research that Oliver did it will cost $25 billion to build, billions a year to maintain and can easily be scaled by ladders and rope.
Where did Oliver get the plans and the figures for the wall? You do know there are already hundreds of miles of wall on the border right? You think it's not feasible to add hundreds more? Really? It just takes political will. That's it.
About half illegal immigrants come to the US on valid visas anyway.
Let's use the cancer analogy you used from another thread... Should we not use treatment that works on a certain cancer because only half of it can be treated? Plus there's a treatment for the other kind as well! So....yeah.
John Oliver Weekly show
Seriously? I mean, he is good for a chuckle from time to time, and mocking public figures is a great American tradition, but serious analysis of the issues by the likes of John Oliver? Say it ain't so Joe! Illegal immigration is beneficial to the businesses who hire them at cut rates, often paying in cash with no benefits, no proper filing of taxes, no worker protections. Illegal immigration is beneficial to consumers in a trickle down effect of lower costs. A lot of people think that the pie is a fixed size and every immigrant, illegal or legal, takes a bite out of that pie leaving less for the rest of us. Actually immigration, both legal and illegal, makes the pie grow, increases the GDP, and increases our tax base for items with a somewhat population independent cost, such as our military. The more people we have the more people there are to fund the military and many other costs. Politicians also hope these illegals will turn into voters and vote for them in gratitude for not pushing them out. Hence the political ambivalence toward illegal immigrants and the refusal of democrats to even use that term. But, it's not all roses for illegal immigration. I happen to think encouraging an underclass of underpaid illegal workers in a black market subculture with no worker rights, who depress wages for honest workers, well, that's really a horrible labor and human policy. There is also a grain of truth to the reactionary fears of illegals as criminals and service bloodsuckers. Along with the honest hard working people come criminals too, and there is no screening process as with legal immigration. They use public services but their underground cash economy means they avoid most of the taxes the rest of us pay to fund those public services, increasing our tax burden. The fact is a well constructed wall is an effective deterrent. We beefed up our wall South of San Diego and that has in fact been effective in slashing crossings in that area. Of course, the people move East to cross, but there are logistical problems for them with that. Just look at apartheid Israel. The walls Israel has built have been effective in blocking crossings by Palestinians into Israel. The Berlin wall is another example of a wall that succeeded in virtually halting crossings. Used for good or used for evil, walls work.
John Oliver Weekly show
Seriously? I mean, he is good for a chuckle from time to time, and mocking public figures is a great American tradition, but serious analysis of the issues by the likes of John Oliver? Say it ain't so Joe! Illegal immigration is beneficial to the businesses who hire them at cut rates, often paying in cash with no benefits, no proper filing of taxes, no worker protections. Illegal immigration is beneficial to consumers in a trickle down effect of lower costs. A lot of people think that the pie is a fixed size and every immigrant, illegal or legal, takes a bite out of that pie leaving less for the rest of us. Actually immigration, both legal and illegal, makes the pie grow, increases the GDP, and increases our tax base for items with a somewhat population independent cost, such as our military. The more people we have the more people there are to fund the military and many other costs. Politicians also hope these illegals will turn into voters and vote for them in gratitude for not pushing them out. Hence the political ambivalence toward illegal immigrants and the refusal of democrats to even use that term. But, it's not all roses for illegal immigration. I happen to think encouraging an underclass of underpaid illegal workers in a black market subculture with no worker rights, who depress wages for honest workers, well, that's really a horrible labor and human policy. There is also a grain of truth to the reactionary fears of illegals as criminals and service bloodsuckers. Along with the honest hard working people come criminals too, and there is no screening process as with legal immigration. They use public services but their underground cash economy means they avoid most of the taxes the rest of us pay to fund those public services, increasing our tax burden. The fact is a well constructed wall is an effective deterrent. We beefed up our wall South of San Diego and that has in fact been effective in slashing crossings in that area. Of course, the people move East to cross, but there are logistical problems for them with that. Just look at apartheid Israel. The walls Israel has built have been effective in blocking crossings by Palestinians into Israel. The Berlin wall is another example of a wall that succeeded in virtually halting crossings. Used for good or used for evil, walls work.
Do you even watch the piece? As Oliver- and others - pointed out all you need to get over a 30 foot wall is a 31 foot ladder. To get down the other side all you need is a rope as Trump himself admitted. And tunnels are also being used to breach the border, a wall isn't going to stop that. Or the fact that about half of illegal immigrants come to the US on valid visas that they then overstay. Building $25 billion wall that will likely cost that much in maintenance over the next 7 years to "fix" a problem that really doesn't exist in the first place makes no sense on any level except to appeal to the xenophobic that Trump is counting on to get into the White House.
Building $25 billion wall that will likely cost that much in maintenance over the next 7 years to "fix" a problem that really doesn't exist in the first place makes no sense on any level except to appeal to the xenophobic that Trump is counting on to get into the White House.
What do you men it doesn't make any sense? Mexico is going to pay for it, remember? Donald Trump said so his own self, and we all know The Donald always says what's on his mind and never changes positions on anything. That's why Vy and Stardusty don't have to resort to logical fallacies and personal attacks to promote their belief in Trump. They believe his lies.
What do you men it doesn't make any sense? Mexico is going to pay for it, remember? Donald Trump said so his own self, and we all know The Donald always says what's on his mind and never changes positions on anything. That's why Vy and Stardusty don't have to resort to logical fallacies and personal attacks to promote their belief in Trump. They believe his lies.
Sorry, I forgot that. According to Trump because there is a $56 billion trade deficit between the US and Mexico that money can be used to build the wall. That kind of sums up Trump's business acumen in a nutshell. That money doesn't belong to the Mexican government, it's money earned by Mexican businesses. And then you get to international agreements like NAFTA and others. Doing anything that harms a partner in these agreements can open the offending party to massive lawsuits. Trump's wall if built could cost America a whole lot more than $50 billion over 7 years if the Mexican government and corporations sue the US government for damages.

Not to mention that the EPA and several environmental groups would hold up the wall for years in court, suing under the Endangered Species Act.
The wall ain’t gonna happen.

DougC - As Oliver- and others - pointed out all you need to get over a 30 foot wall is a 31 foot ladder.
That's the kind of "logic" that makes Oliver good for nothing more than a little chuckle. You can't drive up a 31 foot ladder. You can't sneak up to a well lit and monitored wall with a 31 foot ladder. Climbing such a ladder is actually not as easy as it sounds, especially with any possessions or children. Getting down a 30 foot rope is very difficult also. Oliver obviously has not considered how such a modern wall is actually constructed. Besides the wall itself is a broad cleared zone on both sides, and access road, and additional fencing barriers, all with infrared cameras, motion detectors, vibration sensors, and listening devices networked in coordination with armed vehicular patrols. A modern wall is not just a piece of concrete, rather, a whole barrier and monitoring system. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to build a tunnel under such a system and use it all without being detected? Undoubtedly a few determined folks will find a way to temporarily breech the barrier in small numbers for a short time, which would amount to a trickle compared to the present flow.
DarronS - That’s why Vy and Stardusty don’t have to resort to logical fallacies and personal attacks to promote their belief in Trump. They believe his lies.
And where exactly did you read that I have a "belief in Trump"? When have I ever uttered a single word of "belief in Trump"? You are inventing this assertion of my supposed "belief in Trump" out of whole cloth.

How about we build a wall around Trump? It would cost less to build and maintain and would do more good. I suggest it be soundproof.