Mozart, I agree with Lois about living life to it's fullest and appreciating the moment. You know what makes everyone important? The fact that we are not infinite. That is what makes life so precious. Besides, if we all lived forever and produced at the rate we do now, just think how crowded it would be on this planet. That said though, because life is precious, we cherish it, live every moment to it's fullest, experiencing good times and bad times, sadness and joy, etc without wallowing in self-pity concerning our demise. Carpe Deim. You know what makes life great? Waking up every morning and hearing the birds sing on a nice spring or summer day. Grown children visiting their parents (and bringing the grandkids, if any). Other animals. A sunrise or sunset. Birthdays. And my favourite, even though my aunt is gone now (died shortly afterwards) remembering the sudden bright smiling beam in my aunt's face when I came to visit her in the nursing home. I cherish that last moment with her. She didn't wallow in self-pity, knowing that her time to die was coming and it really doesn't matter what she did or didn't believe about death, she did knew she wasn't going to live much longer, especially after so many strokes that debilitated her by age 75. I even think by that point, she may have even welcomed death. She lives on in our hearts and minds though. She was no less important than any other human, but the fact is, like every other human (with or without any religious belief), she came to terms with the fact she wasn't going to live forever. You could be Mae West or Humphrey Bogart, but there will be a generation, if there isn't one now, that says, "Humphrey who?" I don't think young people even care about Ben Franklin, who live 200 years ago, so you could be famous, die, and it wouldn't matter, except maybe the contributions you gave to the world while you were living. The thing is, we all have to come to terms, sooner or later, with our eventual demise. We don't have to like it, but we do have to come to terms with it, and in the meantime, we all have to strive to live life to the fullest, because this is the only one we get and since we are here, we might as well strive to appreciate what we do have while we are alive to do so- be it a few years or 100+ years. I even look forward to one day having grandkids, now that my sons are grown and when they do give me a grandbaby, I will be part of that person's life too and one day, they'll look back, after I die, and say, "She was an awesome grandmother. We did this and that together, she did this and that for me.." I wouldn't want them remembering me as the grandmother who wallowed in self-pity concerning her own demise. That's not life and it's not what life is about.This way of life you are speaking of that doesn't wallow in self pity is for non-survival based animals that do not live for survival. That is, living forever and feeling happy all the time. But animals (and that goes for human beings) who are solely survival based such as myself and are not based any other way, all other things in life only give joy and meaning to their lives when their survival and happiness is met first and foremost. I am no different than any other wild animal out there that needs to survive. So I would need the belief in the afterlife since survival is what I am hardwired for and what my brain needs. This can't be rationalized away like I said since our survival mechanisms are irrational and are there to ensure our survival. Even the "complaining" I am exhibiting now is my brain trying to ensure my survival since complaining is a survival mechanism just like anger, fear, depression, feeling sorry for yourself, etc. I am only here for survival just like any other animal. I need to live forever and always feel happy and having my belief in the afterlife back is like me having that. It is satisfying this need to survive. So helping me regain this belief along with my feelings of happiness/enjoyment is the right thing to do since I am solely survival based unlike other human beings. This is not a shallow way of life. It is not a shallow experience for me. You do not understand just how necessary it is and just how profound of an experience it is for me when I have my belief in the afterlife and have my feelings of happiness back along with it. This is the only experience that fills my life with joy and meaning and no other experience does this for me. You act as though I am not survival based and that I am just like any other normal human being out there in the world who can live some other way besides their own survival and feelings of happiness. I am not like you or anyone else.
Mozart, I agree with Lois about living life to it's fullest and appreciating the moment. You know what makes everyone important? The fact that we are not infinite. That is what makes life so precious. Besides, if we all lived forever and produced at the rate we do now, just think how crowded it would be on this planet. That said though, because life is precious, we cherish it, live every moment to it's fullest, experiencing good times and bad times, sadness and joy, etc without wallowing in self-pity concerning our demise. Carpe Deim. You know what makes life great? Waking up every morning and hearing the birds sing on a nice spring or summer day. Grown children visiting their parents (and bringing the grandkids, if any). Other animals. A sunrise or sunset. Birthdays. And my favourite, even though my aunt is gone now (died shortly afterwards) remembering the sudden bright smiling beam in my aunt's face when I came to visit her in the nursing home. I cherish that last moment with her. She didn't wallow in self-pity, knowing that her time to die was coming and it really doesn't matter what she did or didn't believe about death, she did knew she wasn't going to live much longer, especially after so many strokes that debilitated her by age 75. I even think by that point, she may have even welcomed death. She lives on in our hearts and minds though. She was no less important than any other human, but the fact is, like every other human (with or without any religious belief), she came to terms with the fact she wasn't going to live forever. You could be Mae West or Humphrey Bogart, but there will be a generation, if there isn't one now, that says, "Humphrey who?" I don't think young people even care about Ben Franklin, who live 200 years ago, so you could be famous, die, and it wouldn't matter, except maybe the contributions you gave to the world while you were living. The thing is, we all have to come to terms, sooner or later, with our eventual demise. We don't have to like it, but we do have to come to terms with it, and in the meantime, we all have to strive to live life to the fullest, because this is the only one we get and since we are here, we might as well strive to appreciate what we do have while we are alive to do so- be it a few years or 100+ years. I even look forward to one day having grandkids, now that my sons are grown and when they do give me a grandbaby, I will be part of that person's life too and one day, they'll look back, after I die, and say, "She was an awesome grandmother. We did this and that together, she did this and that for me.." I wouldn't want them remembering me as the grandmother who wallowed in self-pity concerning her own demise. That's not life and it's not what life is about.This way of life you are speaking of that doesn't wallow in self pity is for non-survival based animals that do not live for survival. That is, living forever and feeling happy all the time. But animals (and that goes for human beings) who are solely survival based such as myself and are not based any other way, all other things in life only give joy and meaning to their lives when their survival and happiness is met first and foremost. I am no different than any other wild animal out there that needs to survive. So I would need the belief in the afterlife since survival is what I am hardwired for and what my brain needs. This can't be rationalized away like I said since our survival mechanisms are irrational and are there to ensure our survival. Even the "complaining" I am exhibiting now is my brain trying to ensure my survival since complaining is a survival mechanism just like anger, fear, depression, feeling sorry for yourself, etc. I am only here for survival just like any other animal. I need to live forever and always feel happy and having my belief in the afterlife back is like me having that. It is satisfying this need to survive. So helping me regain this belief along with my feelings of happiness/enjoyment is the right thing to do since I am solely survival based unlike other human beings. This is not a shallow way of life. It is not a shallow experience for me. You do not understand just how necessary it is and just how profound of an experience it is for me when I have my belief in the afterlife and have my feelings of happiness back along with it. This is the only experience that fills my life with joy and meaning and no other experience does this for me. You act as though I am not survival based and that I am just like any other normal human being out there in the world who can live some other way besides their own survival and feelings of happiness. I am not like you or anyone else. Where do you get your information? How is such a way of life "non-survival"? How do you get that out of anything we've said? One doesn't need a belief in an afterlife for survival. The drive for survival is still there, but an afterlife has nothing to do with survival. The idea of an afterlife is nothing more than a human creation, which involves religious belief- part of the "God virus". You can have the drive for survival without a belief in an afterlife.
Mozart, I agree with Lois about living life to it's fullest and appreciating the moment. You know what makes everyone important? The fact that we are not infinite. That is what makes life so precious. Besides, if we all lived forever and produced at the rate we do now, just think how crowded it would be on this planet. That said though, because life is precious, we cherish it, live every moment to it's fullest, experiencing good times and bad times, sadness and joy, etc without wallowing in self-pity concerning our demise. Carpe Deim. You know what makes life great? Waking up every morning and hearing the birds sing on a nice spring or summer day. Grown children visiting their parents (and bringing the grandkids, if any). Other animals. A sunrise or sunset. Birthdays. And my favourite, even though my aunt is gone now (died shortly afterwards) remembering the sudden bright smiling beam in my aunt's face when I came to visit her in the nursing home. I cherish that last moment with her. She didn't wallow in self-pity, knowing that her time to die was coming and it really doesn't matter what she did or didn't believe about death, she did knew she wasn't going to live much longer, especially after so many strokes that debilitated her by age 75. I even think by that point, she may have even welcomed death. She lives on in our hearts and minds though. She was no less important than any other human, but the fact is, like every other human (with or without any religious belief), she came to terms with the fact she wasn't going to live forever. You could be Mae West or Humphrey Bogart, but there will be a generation, if there isn't one now, that says, "Humphrey who?" I don't think young people even care about Ben Franklin, who live 200 years ago, so you could be famous, die, and it wouldn't matter, except maybe the contributions you gave to the world while you were living. The thing is, we all have to come to terms, sooner or later, with our eventual demise. We don't have to like it, but we do have to come to terms with it, and in the meantime, we all have to strive to live life to the fullest, because this is the only one we get and since we are here, we might as well strive to appreciate what we do have while we are alive to do so- be it a few years or 100+ years. I even look forward to one day having grandkids, now that my sons are grown and when they do give me a grandbaby, I will be part of that person's life too and one day, they'll look back, after I die, and say, "She was an awesome grandmother. We did this and that together, she did this and that for me.." I wouldn't want them remembering me as the grandmother who wallowed in self-pity concerning her own demise. That's not life and it's not what life is about.This way of life you are speaking of that doesn't wallow in self pity is for non-survival based animals that do not live for survival. That is, living forever and feeling happy all the time. But animals (and that goes for human beings) who are solely survival based such as myself and are not based any other way, all other things in life only give joy and meaning to their lives when their survival and happiness is met first and foremost. I am no different than any other wild animal out there that needs to survive. So I would need the belief in the afterlife since survival is what I am hardwired for and what my brain needs. This can't be rationalized away like I said since our survival mechanisms are irrational and are there to ensure our survival. Even the "complaining" I am exhibiting now is my brain trying to ensure my survival since complaining is a survival mechanism just like anger, fear, depression, feeling sorry for yourself, etc. I am only here for survival just like any other animal. I need to live forever and always feel happy and having my belief in the afterlife back is like me having that. It is satisfying this need to survive. So helping me regain this belief along with my feelings of happiness/enjoyment is the right thing to do since I am solely survival based unlike other human beings. This is not a shallow way of life. It is not a shallow experience for me. You do not understand just how necessary it is and just how profound of an experience it is for me when I have my belief in the afterlife and have my feelings of happiness back along with it. This is the only experience that fills my life with joy and meaning and no other experience does this for me. You act as though I am not survival based and that I am just like any other normal human being out there in the world who can live some other way besides their own survival and feelings of happiness. I am not like you or anyone else. Where do you get your information? How is such a way of life "non-survival"? How do you get that out of anything we've said? One doesn't need a belief in an afterlife for survival. The drive for survival is still there, but an afterlife has nothing to do with survival. The idea of an afterlife is nothing more than a human creation, which involves religious belief- part of the "God virus". You can have the drive for survival without a belief in an afterlife. Where I am getting at is that if an animal is solely concerned only for its own survival and always wishes to survive and never remain dead, then living forever is the only thing that matters to it. It ALWAYS wants to survive. Always wanting to survive and never wanting to remain dead is no different than wanting to live forever. It is not a want. It is a hardwired survival characteristic of my brain that my brain needs.
“You have two lives. The second one begins when you realize you only have one.” Confucius
I think what Mriana is asking is, how do you know? You have pre-decided that if we did your experiment, it would turn out the way you say. You are basing this on thoughts and feelings you are having. But that’s what we have each other for. When things are not going well in my life, when people around me seem to react in strange ways, I talk to people I trust. Sometimes, it takes years, but most times, I understand I was seeing things differently than most, I was the one who needed to be shown something.
I’m not saying I’m right, or anyone in particular is right, I’m saying we can’t both be right. The question I have for you at this point is; don’t you think someone else has already considered the things you are talking about? Somebody may have attempted the very experiment you propose. You were already given the example of Koko. I know it’s not perfect, but you have to examine all the data we have, not just the data that is in your head. Accepting new data can be painful, but living inside your own head is also painful.
"You have two lives. The second one begins when you realize you only have one." Confucius I think what Mriana is asking is, how do you know? You have pre-decided that if we did your experiment, it would turn out the way you say. You are basing this on thoughts and feelings you are having. But that's what we have each other for. When things are not going well in my life, when people around me seem to react in strange ways, I talk to people I trust. Sometimes, it takes years, but most times, I understand I was seeing things differently than most, I was the one who needed to be shown something. I'm not saying I'm right, or anyone in particular is right, I'm saying we can't both be right. The question I have for you at this point is; don't you think someone else has already considered the things you are talking about? Somebody may have attempted the very experiment you propose. You were already given the example of Koko. I know it's not perfect, but you have to examine all the data we have, not just the data that is in your head. Accepting new data can be painful, but living inside your own head is also painful.Koko was one of those animals who was not solely survival based. Living forever and feeling happy was not wired into him/her. He/she had a level of altruism that allowed him/her to not be miserable. But for those types of animals who have very little to no level of altruism and only live for their own survival and happiness, then these are the types of animals that would be miserable upon realization of the finality of their own death.
Koko was one of those animals who was not solely survival based. Living forever and feeling happy was not wired into him/her. He/she had a level of altruism that allowed him/her to not be miserable. But for those types of animals who have very little to no level of altruism and only live for their own survival and happiness, then these are the types of animals that would be miserable upon realization of the finality of their own death.That may be, but you're still ignoring evidence that you have and making up a result with evidence you don't have, based solely on your own speculation and personal experience. That'll lead to bad places. You can convince yourself of anything if you think that way.
Suit yourself. I raised three sons and a daughter and I would never have let them wallow in self pity the way you do. Incidentally, they are all atheists and rationalists and they are all university graduates, successful and happy with their lives. None of them wallows in self pity. I must have done something right by by expecting them to grow up, take responsibility and not allowing them to feel sorry for themselves. I had hoped a kick in the pants might make you straighten up, but I'm afraid you are a hopeless case. Wallow away.You act as though strength, growth, maturity, and development as an individual is something important. It is nothing important in this life at all. It doesn't matter at all. What matters is that a person lives forever, feels happy, and doesn't struggle from depression or anhedonia. This is not shallow. It is the most profound meaningful experience in life and is the only meaningful thing in life. It is the most horrible thing for a person to suffer and to no longer exist forever. I may be no different than something like a happy butterfly or a rainbow. In other words, someone who is weak, fragile, pathetic, and pitiful who can't face reality and deal with the pain, suffering, hardships, (especially the notion of forever dying). Someone who just wishes to live forever in happiness, comfort, and love. But it doesn't matter that I am a weak person. It doesn't matter if I were strong, childish, or someone mature. Therefore, since the only thing that I have to give my life meaning is having the belief in the afterlife back to me as well as my feelings of enjoyment/happiness, then I will dedicate my life in trying to regain those things. I will first fully educate myself on the concept of the afterlife. I will study both sides of evidence and arguments. That is, the materialistic side and the believers side. I just hope to god that I become a believer like how Raymond Moody and Eben Alexander are. I wish to be an educated believer like them because that is all that matters to me. I will study up on the afterlife like they have and I hope I become a believer like them. They have dedicated their lives to studying up on the afterlife and I will also do the same. Lastly, if I do regain my belief, then how I would regain my lost feelings of pleasure would be through getting TMS which is a completely safe procedure that sends a magnetic shock to the brain. But it doesn't matter if I had my feelings of pleasure right now. I am miserable without my belief. So getting my belief back is the #1 thing here first and foremost.
A friend of a friend just pointed me to Eben, quite a case. It will be a great day when someone writes a book about how the brain actually works, and sells millions of copies and gets on Oprah. For now, we have people who are barely known to debunk the charlatans.]
A friend of a friend just pointed me to Eben, quite a case. It will be a great day when someone writes a book about how the brain actually works, and sells millions of copies and gets on Oprah. For now, we have people who are barely known to debunk the charlatans.]Now as a note to everyone here, my previous post I just made and this one are the most important to read and respond to. So I would like to continue on from my previous important post and explain more here. I would now like to talk about my goal (dream) in life which was to be a composer. I will explain what has inspired me to be a composer. It was the afterlife that inspired my composing. Me living forever happy is the only thing that inspires my composing talent and is the only reason for me being a composer. Since I lost my belief, I have also lost all inspiration for composing. The compositions I was inspired to make were ones that express immortality, beautiful dimensions and worlds. This is an expression of the afterlife. My reason and inspiration for composing was to convey a message with these types of compositions. That living forever and being happy is all that matters in life and is the most powerful thing in life. It is of a higher dimension and to live your life any other way and find meaning any other way is nothing in comparison. My message was also: "I am happy in this life and I am on my way to become one and eternal with the universe when I die. I will be happy in this life and will be eternally happy after I die." But this has been completely taken away from me. Not only am I unhappy in this life which has taken away my inspiration for composing, but I no longer believe that I am a higher dimensional being who will be eternally happy after I die. So my life is completely miserable now. It doesn't matter to me that I bring happiness to others through composing. That does not inspire me and nor does anything else in this world. All that matters to me is that I feel happy and enjoyment from others complimenting my compositions, thinking they are something special and great, and forever living on in eternal bliss after I die. Now I don't get that at all. I no longer have any more happiness, am miserable, and no longer have any reason to pursue my composing talent which, by the way, was a great talent since I have autism and autistic people are very creative and have great talents.
Have you heard of Bono? The guy from the band U2? He is an atheist, but he knows his Bible. He continues to take inspiration from it. There are some very high up Bishops in England that don’t believe in heaven or hell. It has been common for a long time for Jews to practice their religion without believing in miracles or supernatural. You can be inspired by your own imagination, even if you know the images are just in your head. Imagining a better tomorrow is the same drive for survival and immortality that you think you have lost. I know you’re just going to argue with me, but remember, if you argue for your own limitations, they are yours.
Have you heard of Bono? The guy from the band U2? He is an atheist, but he knows his Bible. He continues to take inspiration from it. There are some very high up Bishops in England that don't believe in heaven or hell. It has been common for a long time for Jews to practice their religion without believing in miracles or supernatural. You can be inspired by your own imagination, even if you know the images are just in your head. Imagining a better tomorrow is the same drive for survival and immortality that you think you have lost. I know you're just going to argue with me, but remember, if you argue for your own limitations, they are yours.Now let me say this. I do have obsessive compulsive disorder and struggle with depression. I also take myself very seriously, think I am someone very important, and am highly self-determined in life. That is, I would never sacrifice myself, always preserve myself, and I was on a serious mission in this life to solely live to be happy, enjoy my life, and then live forever happy in the afterlife after I die. I am not a self-sacrificing individual at all. It is only those people who are self sacrificing individuals who are fine with the idea of forever remaining dead. I am the opposite of self sacrificing which is why I am always miserable and am unable to just stop obsessing, feeling miserable, and just enjoy this life I have.
Yeah, kinda knew all that. One thing I’m not clear on. How is it that your belief in the afterlife affects your having an afterlife? Isn’t that up to God, or nature or Karma, or whatever? If someone never knew they COULD have an afterlife, and afterlifes were real, wouldn’t they get one anyway? Do you have to do something to get this afterlife?
I vaguely remember … I think it was The Twilight Zone story about a naughty biker. We are shown in the first few minutes that he is unpleasant. He challenges someone to a race along the strip. He has an accident and is killed. Subsequently we see him walking down a celestial tunnel. Nobody is walking in the opposite direction. He sees a door on his left and knocks on it. A hillbilly answers the door and invites the biker in. It is a lounge of a house, the hillbilly and wife treat him with kindness, making him a meal. They are friendly. After he finishes the meal they chat to him, tell him their life stories and show him photographs of themselves, their sons, daughters and grandchildren. Eventually the biker gets bored and heads for the door. He turns the handle and it will not open. He tries a door on the opposite side of the room. It will not open.
He shouts out “I know that I deserve to be in Hell, so put me there”. A booming voice answers “There is not simply one Hell for all. There is a different Hell for each person and this is yours”.
So, that is what the afterlife may be, a different afterlife tailored for each individual.
But if you were to somehow make it aware of the finality of its own death, you will see how devastated it will become.Nonsense! That's only one way in envision it. What about appreciating that this moment and living it to your fullest (whatever that may be) IS the goal of life. That relegates death to the final act, a curiosity, but certainly not an all consuming obsession. __________________________________ As for death, chew on this one. The are two kinds of death, cowering and fearful, the other accepting, like that step out of an airplane at ten thousand feet and into the adventure. just saying :cheese: I don't think this is nonsense. I think this is really how it would work out. {Why? It's you thinking it, but that doesn't make it so.} The survival mechanisms are irrational and rationalizing with them such as telling ourselves that we have this life to enjoy is not going to work. * {Why would survival mechanism be irrational? We want to continue living, if you don't, your body certainly does and it will do everything in its power to keep you alive, because that's what it does. Your body don't give a damned about no afterlife, it's firmly in the moment - All this hand wringing in your mind.} We are not hardwired rationally and nor is any other animal. {It's a survival imperative, got nothing to do with "rationalizing" death and even less with any concerns for an afterlife..} So that is the reason why the animal would, in fact, be devastated regardless of how it tried to rationalize. The animal is hardwired to want to survive and be happy. {That's your story! Are you really equipped to speak for animals? Have you ever experienced an emotional, mental, existential experience where you've 'felt' what an animal feels, where you've been stripped don't to the most immediate survival needs and nothing else? What gives you the right to speak for an animals feelings?} Therefore, rationalizing with this won't work just like how it does not work with me either. {Well okay… still we are hardwired to survive getting through the day.} I have honestly and truly told myself things such as not to worry about death and be happy and enjoy this life and it does not work which is proof right here that what I am saying is not nonsense. And I feel the fullness of life and the joys of the moment, and I ponder my death, I feel no longing or desire for my soul to be wrenched from my body and shoved into a nightmare called ever lasting heaven. Sounds as hideous as living forever. I'm ready to allow both my spirit/mind to fade back into the background hum. But that's me. Apparently you like making your time on Earth your Hell. It doesn't need to be that way, but if that is what you strive for that is what you'll find.
such as telling ourselves that we have this life to enjoy is not going to work. *It really we have this life to live. "Enjoy" is your option, which some would say it totally determinist, I don't I totally buy that, though there is a lot of truth in.
I vaguely remember ..... I think it was The Twilight Zone story about a naughty biker. We are shown in the first few minutes that he is unpleasant. He challenges someone to a race along the strip. He has an accident and is killed. Subsequently we see him walking down a celestial tunnel. Nobody is walking in the opposite direction. He sees a door on his left and knocks on it. A hillbilly answers the door and invites the biker in. It is a lounge of a house, the hillbilly and wife treat him with kindness, making him a meal. They are friendly. After he finishes the meal they chat to him, tell him their life stories and show him photographs of themselves, their sons, daughters and grandchildren. Eventually the biker gets bored and heads for the door. He turns the handle and it will not open. He tries a door on the opposite side of the room. It will not open. He shouts out "I know that I deserve to be in Hell, so put me there". A booming voice answers "There is not simply one Hell for all. There is a different Hell for each person and this is yours". So, that is what the afterlife may be, a different afterlife tailored for each individual.:ahhh: Sounds like the ending to Behind The Green Door. Well, the same, but different. :zip:
But if you were to somehow make it aware of the finality of its own death, you will see how devastated it will become.Nonsense! That's only one way in envision it. What about appreciating that this moment and living it to your fullest (whatever that may be) IS the goal of life. That relegates death to the final act, a curiosity, but certainly not an all consuming obsession. __________________________________ As for death, chew on this one. The are two kinds of death, cowering and fearful, the other accepting, like that step out of an airplane at ten thousand feet and into the adventure. just saying :cheese: I don't think this is nonsense. I think this is really how it would work out. {Why? It's you thinking it, but that doesn't make it so.} The survival mechanisms are irrational and rationalizing with them such as telling ourselves that we have this life to enjoy is not going to work. * {Why would survival mechanism be irrational? We want to continue living, if you don't, your body certainly does and it will do everything in its power to keep you alive, because that's what it does. Your body don't give a damned about no afterlife, it's firmly in the moment - All this hand wringing in your mind.} We are not hardwired rationally and nor is any other animal. {It's a survival imperative, got nothing to do with "rationalizing" death and even less with any concerns for an afterlife..} So that is the reason why the animal would, in fact, be devastated regardless of how it tried to rationalize. The animal is hardwired to want to survive and be happy. {That's your story! Are you really equipped to speak for animals? Have you ever experienced an emotional, mental, existential experience where you've 'felt' what an animal feels, where you've been stripped don't to the most immediate survival needs and nothing else? What gives you the right to speak for an animals feelings?} Therefore, rationalizing with this won't work just like how it does not work with me either. {Well okay… still we are hardwired to survive getting through the day.} I have honestly and truly told myself things such as not to worry about death and be happy and enjoy this life and it does not work which is proof right here that what I am saying is not nonsense. And I feel the fullness of life and the joys of the moment, and I ponder my death, I feel no longing or desire for my soul to be wrenched from my body and shoved into a nightmare called ever lasting heaven. Sounds as hideous as living forever. I'm ready to allow both my spirit/mind to fade back into the background hum. But that's me. Apparently you like making your time on Earth your Hell. It doesn't need to be that way, but if that is what you strive for that is what you'll find.
such as telling ourselves that we have this life to enjoy is not going to work. *It really we have this life to live. "Enjoy" is your option, which some would say it totally determinist, I don't I totally buy that, though there is a lot of truth in. Our brains never want us to die. They always want us to stay alive. In a situation where we might die, our brains give us the experience of stress responses (unpleasant feelings/emotions) such as feeling miserable in order to ensure our survival. So that is why an afterlife is so vital. Our brains don't want us to forever remain dead. So when the belief in the afterlife is taken away, our brains will also make us feel miserable in this situation as well. Our brains perceive a situation in which we can no longer live on and forever remain dead and our brains try to ensure that we survive anyway regardless of how we try to rationalize. Our brains will make us feel miserable, fearful, etc. At least, this holds true for some people like me. For whatever reason, others are fine with forever remaining dead and their brains don't try to ensure their survival for whatever reason.
"You have two lives. The second one begins when you realize you only have one." ConfuciusAgeless.
"You have two lives. The second one begins when you realize you only have one." ConfuciusAgeless. By the way, I just responded to your post if you want to reply back to my response.
Our brains never want us to die. They always want us to stay alive. In a situation where we might die, our brains give us the experience of stress responses (unpleasant feelings/emotions) such as feeling miserable in order to ensure our survival. So that is why an afterlife is so vital. {You've made this 2nd part up. Accepting the first part does not demonstrate that} Our brains don't want us to forever remain dead.Don't kid yourself, the operational centers of our brain know nothing of "forever" or "heaven".
So when the belief in the afterlife is taken away, our brains will also make us feel miserable in this situation as well.But, the part of our brain responsible for keeping us alive, never had any belief in the afterlife. The part of the brain busy with processing social signals and creating myths to rationalize and accommodate our social existence is a different matter all together and it will believe almost anything. Believer beware.
Our brains never want us to die. They always want us to stay alive. In a situation where we might die, our brains give us the experience of stress responses (unpleasant feelings/emotions) such as feeling miserable in order to ensure our survival. So that is why an afterlife is so vital. {You've made this 2nd part up. Accepting the first part does not demonstrate that} Our brains don't want us to forever remain dead.Don't kid yourself, the operational centers of our brain know nothing of "forever" or "heaven".
So when the belief in the afterlife is taken away, our brains will also make us feel miserable in this situation as well.But, the part of our brain responsible for keeping us alive, never had any belief in the afterlife. The part of the brain busy with processing social signals and creating myths to rationalize and accommodate our social existence is a different matter all together and it will believe almost anything. Believer beware. You are right, we don't know at first. The concept of life after death is something we, along with other animals, are unaware of. But when it comes into our awareness, that is when our brains see trouble. Our brains are now aware that we will forever remain dead and that is when our brains will try to ensure our survival by, again, making us feel miserable, fearful, etc. But as long as we are unaware of our eternal death, then our brains see no trouble. It is only when our brains become aware of our eternal demise that it sees trouble and tries to ensure our survival.