I don’t care if I am a weak person, a strong person, a childish person, or a mature person. All that matters is that I am happy in life and enjoy my life and hobbies. So me living forever happy, filled with joy, and enjoying my life is the #1 thing to me. I don’t care who I am as an individual. All that matters to me is a life that has no suffering, no depression, and has eternal bliss (the afterlife).
But like I said, I have lost both my belief in the afterlife, I am living a life of depression, and I don’t have my feelings of bliss which are so vital to me. Some people would tell me to change and that there is so much more to life than being happy. I don’t see or value anything more than this. This is all I care about.
I don't care if I am a weak person, a strong person, a childish person, or a mature person. All that matters is that I am happy in life and enjoy my life and hobbies. So me living forever happy, filled with joy, and enjoying my life is the #1 thing to me. I don't care who I am as an individual. All that matters to me is a life that has no suffering, no depression, and has eternal bliss (the afterlife). But like I said, I have lost both my belief in the afterlife, I am living a life of depression, and I don't have my feelings of bliss which are so vital to me. Some people would tell me to change and that there is so much more to life than being happy. I don't see or value anything more than this. This is all I care about.Specifically what is all you care about? I'm curious are you familiar with the novel Siddhartha by Hermann Hesse? How about the concepts of Taoism? http://www.thegreattao.com/html/introyingyangtheory.html http://personaltao.com I'm thinking you might find something meaningful in it.
First, awesomely succinct post. I wish Occam were alive to see that.
Second. I was excited by those first few sentences, I thought you had really started seeing where happiness comes from, then came that second paragraph. Happiness doesn’t come from an external goal, especially one that requires being dead to realize. One does not find happiness by saying they will be happy in the future, after some criteria is met.
What was it about the belief in the afterlife that you think brought you happiness? Whether or not there is an afterlife of eternal bliss is a separate question. If you were actually experiencing eternal bliss, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. And we don’t know anyone who is actually experiencing that, so we can’t know how to get there. We know some people who say they know, but we have doubts about them. So, the question is, what was it about that belief that you lost?
Was it that you shared that belief with others? Was it that it gave you something to hope for? Was it just fun to believe? All of those things can be had without the actual belief. You can find something else to hope for, share it with others and just enjoy hoping for it for its own sake.
Hope all is well otherwise.
First, awesomely succinct post. I wish Occam were alive to see that. Second. I was excited by those first few sentences, I thought you had really started seeing where happiness comes from, then came that second paragraph. Happiness doesn't come from an external goal, especially one that requires being dead to realize. One does not find happiness by saying they will be happy in the future, after some criteria is met. What was it about the belief in the afterlife that you think brought you happiness? Whether or not there is an afterlife of eternal bliss is a separate question. If you were actually experiencing eternal bliss, we wouldn't be having this conversation. And we don't know anyone who is actually experiencing that, so we can't know how to get there. We know some people who say they know, but we have doubts about them. So, the question is, what was it about that belief that you lost? Was it that you shared that belief with others? Was it that it gave you something to hope for? Was it just fun to believe? All of those things can be had without the actual belief. You can find something else to hope for, share it with others and just enjoy hoping for it for its own sake. Hope all is well otherwise.Mozart Link is at it again. I suspect he's trying to warn everyone that losing faith will lead to debilitating depression. It doesn't work that way ML. It's just you. I became less depressed when I finally had the courage to admit that I was an atheist. Trying to believe and pretending to believe is what made me depressed. There is something else going on in your head that has nothing to do with his loss of faith, ML. Or maybe you haven't lost faith at all but just want to warn everyone else off it because you hope you will be rewarded for doing "good deeds." I suspect you're a secret theist. Or maybe not so secret. Either that or you have a severe untreated psychological condition that no number of "good deeds" will cure. Lois
First, awesomely succinct post. I wish Occam were alive to see that. Second. I was excited by those first few sentences, I thought you had really started seeing where happiness comes from, then came that second paragraph. Happiness doesn't come from an external goal, especially one that requires being dead to realize. One does not find happiness by saying they will be happy in the future, after some criteria is met. What was it about the belief in the afterlife that you think brought you happiness? Whether or not there is an afterlife of eternal bliss is a separate question. If you were actually experiencing eternal bliss, we wouldn't be having this conversation. And we don't know anyone who is actually experiencing that, so we can't know how to get there. We know some people who say they know, but we have doubts about them. So, the question is, what was it about that belief that you lost? Was it that you shared that belief with others? Was it that it gave you something to hope for? Was it just fun to believe? All of those things can be had without the actual belief. You can find something else to hope for, share it with others and just enjoy hoping for it for its own sake. Hope all is well otherwise.I became a materialistic skeptic. So I no longer am able to look forward to this eternal blissful afterlife I used to believe in. The brain is all about survival. It always wants to live and be happy. So I can choose to consciously focus on this life all I want, but I won't find any meaning in doing so. My subconscious will always still be focused on the notion of life after death which will always render my life completely empty. I am unable to enjoy my life and hobbies not only because I no longer believe in the afterlife anymore, but also because I no longer have my feelings of enjoyment due to a chronic mental condition known as anhedonia. This way of life just doesn't work for me. I need my old way of life back to me. Those two things I need in my life are my only source of meaning and happiness. I find no value whatsoever in any other way of living others might suggest to me.
First, awesomely succinct post. I wish Occam were alive to see that. Second. I was excited by those first few sentences, I thought you had really started seeing where happiness comes from, then came that second paragraph. Happiness doesn't come from an external goal, especially one that requires being dead to realize. One does not find happiness by saying they will be happy in the future, after some criteria is met. What was it about the belief in the afterlife that you think brought you happiness? Whether or not there is an afterlife of eternal bliss is a separate question. If you were actually experiencing eternal bliss, we wouldn't be having this conversation. And we don't know anyone who is actually experiencing that, so we can't know how to get there. We know some people who say they know, but we have doubts about them. So, the question is, what was it about that belief that you lost? Was it that you shared that belief with others? Was it that it gave you something to hope for? Was it just fun to believe? All of those things can be had without the actual belief. You can find something else to hope for, share it with others and just enjoy hoping for it for its own sake. Hope all is well otherwise.Mozart Link is at it again. I suspect he's trying to warn everyone that losing faith will lead to debilitating depression. It doesn't work that way ML. It's just you. I became less depressed when I finally had the courage to admit that I was an atheist. Trying to believe and pretending to believe is what made me depressed. There is something else going on in your head that has nothing to do with his loss of faith, ML. Or maybe you haven't lost faith at all but just want to warn everyone else off it because you hope you will be rewarded for doing "good deeds." I suspect you're a secret theist. Or maybe not so secret. Either that or you have a severe untreated psychological condition that no number of "good deeds" will cure. Lois First off, I am not a secret theist. Second, you are right. There is something else going on besides a simple loss of faith. It is who I am as an individual and how I find meaning in my life. I value no other way of living. I only care about living forever and feeling happy. A person who doesn't care about that wouldn't be depressed when he/she loses faith in an eternal blissful afterlife. But my life is miserable because it is the only thing I value. To me, it is the most horrendous thing for a human being to not only suffer from depression, but to also forever die in the end. Some people are fine with that since it is not all that important to them. But it matters to me.
First, awesomely succinct post. I wish Occam were alive to see that. Second. I was excited by those first few sentences, I thought you had really started seeing where happiness comes from, then came that second paragraph. Happiness doesn't come from an external goal, especially one that requires being dead to realize. One does not find happiness by saying they will be happy in the future, after some criteria is met. What was it about the belief in the afterlife that you think brought you happiness? Whether or not there is an afterlife of eternal bliss is a separate question. If you were actually experiencing eternal bliss, we wouldn't be having this conversation. And we don't know anyone who is actually experiencing that, so we can't know how to get there. We know some people who say they know, but we have doubts about them. So, the question is, what was it about that belief that you lost? Was it that you shared that belief with others? Was it that it gave you something to hope for? Was it just fun to believe? All of those things can be had without the actual belief. You can find something else to hope for, share it with others and just enjoy hoping for it for its own sake. Hope all is well otherwise.I became a materialistic skeptic. So I no longer am able to look forward to this eternal blissful afterlife I used to believe in. The brain is all about survival. It always wants to live and be happy. So I can choose to consciously focus on this life all I want, but I won't find any meaning in doing so. My subconscious will always still be focused on the notion of life after death which will always render my life completely empty. I am unable to enjoy my life and hobbies not only because I no longer believe in the afterlife anymore, but also because I no longer have my feelings of enjoyment due to a chronic mental condition known as anhedonia. This way of life just doesn't work for me. I need my old way of life back to me. Those two things I need in my life are my only source of meaning and happiness. I find no value whatsoever in any other way of living others might suggest to me. So go back to church and pray for a return to belief. It seems to be your only hope. Pray and pray some more. Ask a pastor to help you. I'm sure he or she has some techiques to get you back into the fold. You'll never get better until you believe again. I wouldn't waste another minute. It's been done by many people. There is no reason you can't do it--unless, of course, you have a secret wish to remain depressed--a way of punishing yourself for transgressing. A death wish. The death of your soul. You're almost there.
First, awesomely succinct post. I wish Occam were alive to see that. Second. I was excited by those first few sentences, I thought you had really started seeing where happiness comes from, then came that second paragraph. Happiness doesn't come from an external goal, especially one that requires being dead to realize. One does not find happiness by saying they will be happy in the future, after some criteria is met. What was it about the belief in the afterlife that you think brought you happiness? Whether or not there is an afterlife of eternal bliss is a separate question. If you were actually experiencing eternal bliss, we wouldn't be having this conversation. And we don't know anyone who is actually experiencing that, so we can't know how to get there. We know some people who say they know, but we have doubts about them. So, the question is, what was it about that belief that you lost? Was it that you shared that belief with others? Was it that it gave you something to hope for? Was it just fun to believe? All of those things can be had without the actual belief. You can find something else to hope for, share it with others and just enjoy hoping for it for its own sake. Hope all is well otherwise.I became a materialistic skeptic. So I no longer am able to look forward to this eternal blissful afterlife I used to believe in. The brain is all about survival. It always wants to live and be happy. So I can choose to consciously focus on this life all I want, but I won't find any meaning in doing so. My subconscious will always still be focused on the notion of life after death which will always render my life completely empty. I am unable to enjoy my life and hobbies not only because I no longer believe in the afterlife anymore, but also because I no longer have my feelings of enjoyment due to a chronic mental condition known as anhedonia. This way of life just doesn't work for me. I need my old way of life back to me. Those two things I need in my life are my only source of meaning and happiness. I find no value whatsoever in any other way of living others might suggest to me. So go back to church and pray for a return to belief. It seems to be your only hope. Pray and pray some more. Ask a pastor to help you. I'm sure he or she has some techiques to get you back into the fold. You'll never get better until you believe again. I wouldn't waste another minute. It's been done by many people. There is no reason you can't do it--unless, of course, you have a secret wish to remain depressed--a way of punishing yourself for transgressing. A death wish. The death of your soul. You're almost there. I am willing to try anything, but I doubt there is any way to get my belief in the afterlife back to me. I am in the mindset of a serious hardcore skeptic. So I think it will be impossible to convince me.
I am willing to try anything, but I doubt there is any way to get my belief in the afterlife back to me.Why would you want it back? Why is belief in the afterlife important to you? After life is way overrated. It may be a tough nut to crack, but once done, it's not so bad. Besides a deep understanding of this planet and the processes of evolution puts our 'afterlife' into a whole new and much more fulfilling, satisfying light.
I am willing to try anything, but I doubt there is any way to get my belief in the afterlife back to me.Why would you want it back? Why is belief in the afterlife important to you? After life is way overrated. It may be a tough nut to crack, but once done, it's not so bad. Besides a deep understanding of this planet and the processes of evolution puts our 'afterlife' into a whole new and much more fulfilling, satisfying light. Like I said before, the brain is all about survival. You could, for example, try all you can to forget a tiger or lion that is about to eat you and just simply focus and enjoy this life you have, but it just doesn't work that way. Your subconscious will always focus on that situation of the lion or tiger since staying alive is what is important. So in that same sense, my subconscious also has a firm hold on the idea of whether I live on or remain dead after I die. The brain treats it as something important just like how it would treat the situation of a lion or tiger as important since when it comes to the brain, survival is what is important.
I am willing to try anything, but I doubt there is any way to get my belief in the afterlife back to me. I am in the mindset of a serious hardcore skeptic. So I think it will be impossible to convince me.I think you are right about that. Belief is not something you can make happen. Beliefs depend on your experiences, your knowledge, you can't un-know things. You can forget, but you can't make yourself forget. Well, not in any way that I would recommend anyway.
I only care about living forever and feeling happy.There's your problem right there. You don't give a shit about anything but yourself. That is a shallow way to live and will inevitably lead to the depression you exhibit. Here's some advice worth every penny you're paying for it: Get over yourself and start helping other people. Life means only what you make it mean, and we're all better off if we help each other. As for the "living forever" part, fuhgetaboutit. Ain't gonna happen. Grow up and accept it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAx6PBz_lZ0
I only care about living forever and feeling happy.There's your problem right there. You don't give a shit about anything but yourself. That is a shallow way to live and will inevitably lead to the depression you exhibit. Here's some advice worth every penny you're paying for it: Get over yourself and start helping other people. Life means only what you make it mean, and we're all better off if we help each other. As for the "living forever" part, fuhgetaboutit. Ain't gonna happen. Grow up and accept it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAx6PBz_lZ0 First off, I mean well. I am not out against anyone. I treat others with respect in the real interacting world. There is a good form of selfishness (ego) and there is a bad form. The bad ego is out against everyone else. It harms others, steals from others, thinks it is better than everyone else, etc. But the good ego just wants to live forever and be happy. I keep to myself and don't harm anyone else. So there is nothing wrong with this. Everyone finds meaning their own way. You should not frown upon my way just as how I should not frown upon your way. Everyone is different and as long as I am not harming or stealing from anyone else, then I should be treated with compassion rather than scorn. Yes, I am willing to at least try another way of living and looking at life to give my life a whole new sense of meaning such as what you have mentioned here with helping others. But I cannot guarantee this will work out for me. You can never leave out my longevity and happiness. It is something vital to me. The brain is hardwired for survival and it is for this very reason why my life is and I think will always be dominated by the immense value and desire to live forever and be happy. Therefore, what should be done here is trying to regain my belief in the afterlife as well as my feelings of pleasure. If this can't be regained, then so be it. I am done with this life. I will end my life and get the hell out of it so that I no longer have to put up with people like you who expect me to be a slave to your way of life. You expect me to give up what is so vital to me (my happiness and longetivity) and just become a slave to this non-selfish way of living. But I find no value that way. It is an abomination to me that I will put an end to. I am just as important as anyone else and my own happiness and longevity should never be left out for this very reason.
I am willing to try anything, but I doubt there is any way to get my belief in the afterlife back to me.Why would you want it back? Why is belief in the afterlife important to you? After life is way overrated. It may be a tough nut to crack, but once done, it's not so bad. Besides a deep understanding of this planet and the processes of evolution puts our 'afterlife' into a whole new and much more fulfilling, satisfying light. Like I said before, the brain is all about survival. You could, for example, try all you can to forget a tiger or lion that is about to eat you and just simply focus and enjoy this life you have, but it just doesn't work that way. Your subconscious will always focus on that situation of the lion or tiger since staying alive is what is important. So in that same sense, my subconscious also has a firm hold on the idea of whether I live on or remain dead after I die. The brain treats it as something important just like how it would treat the situation of a lion or tiger as important since when it comes to the brain, survival is what is important. Darron gave you the "tough love" answer, and he was exactly right about it. I'll pick apart this example from a more objective POV. Some people live with real situations like this. They have an abusive parent or spouse and for survival reasons, can't simply leave. They live with a "lion". Obviously forgetting about it is not possible, although they might get brief periods away from them and could fantasize a better life, but those are short lived, and as you say, the thought of the lion returning is always there. I've experience brief periods of depression and that's how I would describe it, a cloud hanging over you, always. For those abused people, even if they do escape, that cloud stays with them, for some, it stays with them forever. So your analogy isn't wrong but, that you can express it tells me you have some choice in the matter. Since you have this condition, your ability to choose happiness is diminished compared to mine, but you still have it. You also have the ability to reason. Reasoning includes predicting a future and finding ways to work toward it. It includes doing things that are painful in the short term, knowing they have a long term pay off. That pay off is not going to be eternal bliss, I can't even promise extreme joy, because I can't diagnose you over the internet. That's up to your doctor, your family, whomever you can find to trust and work with for that ACTUAL better future, not the one with metaphorical lions or fantasies from ancient scripture.
I am willing to try anything, but I doubt there is any way to get my belief in the afterlife back to me.Why would you want it back? Why is belief in the afterlife important to you? After life is way overrated. It may be a tough nut to crack, but once done, it's not so bad. Besides a deep understanding of this planet and the processes of evolution puts our 'afterlife' into a whole new and much more fulfilling, satisfying light. Like I said before, the brain is all about survival. You could, for example, try all you can to forget a tiger or lion that is about to eat you and just simply focus and enjoy this life you have, but it just doesn't work that way. Your subconscious will always focus on that situation of the lion or tiger since staying alive is what is important. So in that same sense, my subconscious also has a firm hold on the idea of whether I live on or remain dead after I die. The brain treats it as something important just like how it would treat the situation of a lion or tiger as important since when it comes to the brain, survival is what is important. Darron gave you the "tough love" answer, and he was exactly right about it. I'll pick apart this example from a more objective POV. Some people live with real situations like this. They have an abusive parent or spouse and for survival reasons, can't simply leave. They live with a "lion". Obviously forgetting about it is not possible, although they might get brief periods away from them and could fantasize a better life, but those are short lived, and as you say, the thought of the lion returning is always there. I've experience brief periods of depression and that's how I would describe it, a cloud hanging over you, always. For those abused people, even if they do escape, that cloud stays with them, for some, it stays with them forever. So your analogy isn't wrong but, that you can express it tells me you have some choice in the matter. Since you have this condition, your ability to choose happiness is diminished compared to mine, but you still have it. You also have the ability to reason. Reasoning includes predicting a future and finding ways to work toward it. It includes doing things that are painful in the short term, knowing they have a long term pay off. That pay off is not going to be eternal bliss, I can't even promise extreme joy, because I can't diagnose you over the internet. That's up to your doctor, your family, whomever you can find to trust and work with for that ACTUAL better future, not the one with metaphorical lions or fantasies from ancient scripture. Forget about it. Refer to my previous post I have just written. No other way of living is going to work out for me. Living forever and being happy is all that matters to me. That I enjoy my life and hobbies and live forever this way. That I have a life all to myself to live that way. I am not happy and cannot enjoy my life. So now I am a slave to other people and their suggested ways of live I find no value in whatsoever. I am not going to be this slave. I live my own way. The way I find meaningful. So this isn't just going to work for me. I will put an end to my life instead because I am not going to be this slave.
According to your definition, we’re all slaves. We free ourselves by realizing it and helping each other cope with that reality. We are all victims of all the stupid things our ancestors did and the messes they left for us to clean up. We also benefit from all the things they figured out and all the frontiers they broke into and all environments they created for our comfort. You choose to focus on the victim side of that and ignore the benefits.
According to your definition, we're all slaves. We free ourselves by realizing it and helping each other cope with that reality. We are all victims of all the stupid things our ancestors did and the messes they left for us to clean up. We also benefit from all the things they figured out and all the frontiers they broke into and all environments they created for our comfort. You choose to focus on the victim side of that and ignore the benefits.The fact is, I no longer have what gives my personal life meaning and I have to instead live a new way of life I find no value in. This just isn't me. So it all comes down to me either doing something drastic such as damaging my brain or electrocuting my brain with electric shock treatment or ending my life.
According to your definition, we're all slaves. We free ourselves by realizing it and helping each other cope with that reality. We are all victims of all the stupid things our ancestors did and the messes they left for us to clean up. We also benefit from all the things they figured out and all the frontiers they broke into and all environments they created for our comfort. You choose to focus on the victim side of that and ignore the benefits.The fact is, I no longer have what gives my personal life meaning and I have to instead live a new way of life I find no value in. This just isn't me. So it all comes down to me either doing something drastic such as damaging my brain or electrocuting my brain with electric shock treatment or ending my life. No, it doesn't come down to that at all. You keep getting it right in your opening sentence, then undoing the progress. Just read these words that you wrote: "The fact is, I no longer have what gives my personal life meaning and I have to instead live a new way of life" Now, do that. You live in a world where people understand the brain better than any time in history. We can do amazing things without electrocution. Did you see my post in the Philosophy thread titled "Happiness". It only took me about 50 years to come up with that. I hope to have a second draft by time I hit 100.
According to your definition, we're all slaves. We free ourselves by realizing it and helping each other cope with that reality. We are all victims of all the stupid things our ancestors did and the messes they left for us to clean up. We also benefit from all the things they figured out and all the frontiers they broke into and all environments they created for our comfort. You choose to focus on the victim side of that and ignore the benefits.The fact is, I no longer have what gives my personal life meaning and I have to instead live a new way of life I find no value in. This just isn't me. So it all comes down to me either doing something drastic such as damaging my brain or electrocuting my brain with electric shock treatment or ending my life. No, it doesn't come down to that at all. You keep getting it right in your opening sentence, then undoing the progress. Just read these words that you wrote: "The fact is, I no longer have what gives my personal life meaning and I have to instead live a new way of life" Now, do that. You live in a world where people understand the brain better than any time in history. We can do amazing things without electrocution. Did you see my post in the Philosophy thread titled "Happiness". It only took me about 50 years to come up with that. I hope to have a second draft by time I hit 100. I don't think any other way of life is going to work for me.
I don't think any other way of life is going to work for me.I didn't think I'd live past 30, but, here I am. Sometimes I'm wrong. And sometimes that's good.