I don't think any other way of life is going to work for me.I didn't think I'd live past 30, but, here I am. Sometimes I'm wrong. And sometimes that's good. My feelings of happiness completely fill my life with an indescribable joy and meaning. No other experience does this for me. All other experiences in my life are mechanical in comparison. Me living on and being happy is the only experience that is not "mechanical" to me. It is a completely divine experience for me and is everything to me.
I don't care if I am a weak person, a strong person, a childish person, or a mature person. All that matters is that I am happy in life and enjoy my life and hobbies. So me living forever happy, filled with joy, and enjoying my life is the #1 thing to me. I don't care who I am as an individual. All that matters to me is a life that has no suffering, no depression, and has eternal bliss (the afterlife). But like I said, I have lost both my belief in the afterlife, I am living a life of depression, and I don't have my feelings of bliss which are so vital to me. Some people would tell me to change and that there is so much more to life than being happy. I don't see or value anything more than this. This is all I care about.Specifically what is all you care about? I'm curious are you familiar with the novel Siddhartha by Hermann Hesse? How about the concepts of Taoism? http://www.thegreattao.com/html/introyingyangtheory.html http://personaltao.com I'm thinking you might find something meaningful in it. Mozart isn't looking for anything meaningful. He has one goal: to prove to the world that loss of faith is the worst thing that can happen to anyone. He will never leave that subject. He will continue to claim that loss of faith has ruined him forever. Someone is pushing him to do this. He thinks he will eventually be rewarded.
First, awesomely succinct post. I wish Occam were alive to see that. Second. I was excited by those first few sentences, I thought you had really started seeing where happiness comes from, then came that second paragraph. Happiness doesn't come from an external goal, especially one that requires being dead to realize. One does not find happiness by saying they will be happy in the future, after some criteria is met. What was it about the belief in the afterlife that you think brought you happiness? Whether or not there is an afterlife of eternal bliss is a separate question. If you were actually experiencing eternal bliss, we wouldn't be having this conversation. And we don't know anyone who is actually experiencing that, so we can't know how to get there. We know some people who say they know, but we have doubts about them. So, the question is, what was it about that belief that you lost? Was it that you shared that belief with others? Was it that it gave you something to hope for? Was it just fun to believe? All of those things can be had without the actual belief. You can find something else to hope for, share it with others and just enjoy hoping for it for its own sake. Hope all is well otherwise.I became a materialistic skeptic. So I no longer am able to look forward to this eternal blissful afterlife I used to believe in. The brain is all about survival. It always wants to live and be happy. So I can choose to consciously focus on this life all I want, but I won't find any meaning in doing so. My subconscious will always still be focused on the notion of life after death which will always render my life completely empty. I am unable to enjoy my life and hobbies not only because I no longer believe in the afterlife anymore, but also because I no longer have my feelings of enjoyment due to a chronic mental condition known as anhedonia. This way of life just doesn't work for me. I need my old way of life back to me. Those two things I need in my life are my only source of meaning and happiness. I find no value whatsoever in any other way of living others might suggest to me. Go back to it, then. What is stopping you? You sound like a deliberate malcontent. What's behind it? You are getting off on being miserable. Nobody does anything if there isn't some kind of payoff. You think that being miserable will bring you some advantage. It won't. It will only isolate you further. Get off your behind and DO something worthwhile and stop feeling sorry for yourself. You sound like a cranky, rebellious adolescent. .
I’m not trying to prove anything here. This entire topic and all my posts in it is just another way of saying: “I give up. No other way of life matters to me. I only came here to enjoy my life and hobbies. There is nothing wrong with this since I am not harming anyone else or out against anyone else. It is just time for me to go now. Either I get electric shock therapy to wipe out those memories that lead me to disbelieve in the afterlife or I put an end to my life. I refuse to be a slave to a way of life I find no value in. So I am considering putting an end to it.”
I'm not trying to prove anything here. This entire topic and all my posts in it is just another way of saying: "I give up. No other way of life matters to me. I only came here to enjoy my life and hobbies. There is nothing wrong with this since I am not harming anyone else or out against anyone else. It is just time for me to go now. Either I get electric shock therapy to wipe out those memories that lead me to disbelieve in the afterlife or I put an end to my life. I refuse to be a slave to a way of life I find no value in. So I am considering putting an end to it."There is a third choice that you apparently refuse to consider. There is plenty to learn from your loss of faith in fairy tales, instead of being wallowing in misery. But you refuse to learn from it. So do the next best thing is to go back to belief and calm your demons. Choosing to be miserable is a lousy choice that will have no positive outcome. But, rest assured, you are getting a payback from being miserable. I just wish you'd keep it to yourself since you refuse to do anything to help yourself. If that's your choice, you deserve to be miserable. Just leave us out of it. We've learned to live with our choices and make the best of them. We don't wallow in misery, blubbering away like a two-year-old who didn't get his treat.
I'm not trying to prove anything here. This entire topic and all my posts in it is just another way of saying: "I give up. No other way of life matters to me. I only came here to enjoy my life and hobbies. There is nothing wrong with this since I am not harming anyone else or out against anyone else. It is just time for me to go now. Either I get electric shock therapy to wipe out those memories that lead me to disbelieve in the afterlife or I put an end to my life. I refuse to be a slave to a way of life I find no value in. So I am considering putting an end to it."There is a third choice that you apparently refuse to consider. There is plenty to learn from your loss of faith in fairy tales, instead of being wallowing in misery. But you refuse to learn from it. So do the next best thing is to go back to belief and calm your demons. Choosing to be miserable is a lousy choice that will have no positive outcome. But, rest assured, you are getting a payback from being miserable. I just wish you'd keep it to yourself since you refuse to do anything to help yourself. If that's your choice, you deserve to be miserable. Just leave us out of it. We've learned to live with our choices and make the best of them. We don't wallow in misery, blubbering away like a two-year-old who didn't get his treat. For some people, it is not a matter of choice. Somethings just can't be changed sometimes. I can try to change for the better all I want. But like I said, it just isn't going to work out for me. That's my final word. Also, since I have to be a slave to people like you and your ways/values of life which I wish to have nothing to do with, and furthermore, since I am being harped upon for not following those said values I detest, then I really wish right now I could just take a hammer and smash your fucking heads in. This is no different than a situation of school shootings. The person has had enough of the name calling and mistreatment. He/she would take a gun and blow people away. The mistreated individual wishes to have nothing to do with these other people and their frowning/scorning. So he/she would take a gun and blow them away. NEVER leave my feelings of happiness and my longevity out of the picture (my belief in the eternal blissful afterlife as well as my feelings of bliss here on Earth as well). It is something vital to me I absolutely need back and must be always present with me wherever I go and whatever I do in life in order to bring said things in my life joy and meaning. Anyone who tells me things such as to stop feelings sorry for myself, move on, I am childish, etc. are my greatest enemies. You might say you are trying to help me. But this is of no help to me. That does not make you a good person. I don't care how many people you have helped out in life. That does not make you anything good. Since you have mistreated me with this cold dismissive attitude of the very things I need in my life, then I would also return the favor upon you and bash your brains out. However, if you are someone nice to me, don't call me these names, and instead wish to try and help me regain those lost things I absolutely need in my life, then that makes you a good person worthy of respect. You would then be my greatest friend. But there are no such people here. So let me die then. This is all I am and is all I came here to live for. I wish I was never a part of anyone else's way of life since it is something I find no value in like I said. I detest any other way of living than the one I find meaningful. I will just put an end to my life and that be final. With that, I am signing off now and putting and end to my life. Forget this topic and our conversation. I am done here.
Sorry we failed you Mozart. You had several people suggest that you return to church or wherever it was that promoted your beliefs. If that’s what you wanted, you could have easily gone elsewhere and found that. There was a little name calling, but you came to a place that was clear about its beliefs and intentions. This isn’t High School that requires your attendance. Good luck wherever you may go.
However, if you are someone nice to me, don't call me these names, and instead wish to try and help me regain those lost things I absolutely need in my life, then that makes you a good person worthy of respect. You would then be my greatest friend. But there are no such people here.What is it you absolutely need in life?
Mozart Link, you should look to get help. Please give the folks at this website a call:
However, if you are someone nice to me, don't call me these names, and instead wish to try and help me regain those lost things I absolutely need in my life, then that makes you a good person worthy of respect. You would then be my greatest friend. But there are no such people here.What is it you absolutely need in life? I know I said I would sign off, but I am still here. People have been demanding that I change. But it's them who need to change. As long as they are the ones changing and are on my side and wish to approach my dilemma in a different way (the way I need in which others help me try to regain those things in my life), then these people are my friend rather than my enemies and I am willing to listen. This is the only way I am willing to listen to others. There is no other way that is going to be successful for me. I will repeat the two absolutely vital things I need back in my life: 1.) My belief in the eternal blissful afterlife 2.) My feelings of happiness and enjoyment which I have lost due to a mental condition known as anhedonia I must have both of these things combined in my life to bring joy and meaning to everything in my life. But a belief in this afterlife is the #1 most important thing I need first and foremost. To take away both of these things in my life is no different than taking away the heroin from a dangerous heroin addict and then telling that addict: "Grow up. Life isn't about what you want. Just deal with it. There are other meaningful ways to live than this." If you tell a dangerous heroin addict this, you will surely get your ass handed to you. That heroin is something they need and not just some fancy want such as some fancy car or television. I am like that dangerous heroin addict. Except that I am not a heroin addict or any drug user. I am all about being happy, healthy, and living. So I would never do drugs since they would damage your health and mental well-being over the long run. However, me living forever and being happy/enjoying my life is like the heroin that I, as a dangerous heroin addict, need. NEVER take that away from me, NEVER leave out and dismiss it, and NEVER tell me from there that I am childish, need to grow up, stop being selfish, etc. Why is this something I need so much? We are hardwired for survival. We are wired to want to live forever, to want to be happy, to not want to suffer from depression/absence of pleasure. It is a survival mechanism. Some people have it while others don't. I have it very strongly and need the proper respect and treatment based on the fact that this is who I am, this is how my brain is hardwired, and this is something I absolutely need and is the only thing that brings my life meaning.
Glad you’re still around.
- There are plenty of much better places you can go to get your belief back.
- If you have a mental condition, and you are aware of it, then consult a mental health professional. There are plenty of those too.
I hope you see the flaw in your example of the heroin addict. I believe in drug counseling, not locking up drug users, so we agree in that sense. I think we also agree that the heroin addict needs to change. How you want to change is up to, since you are free to believe as wish.
Glad you're still around. http://www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org 1) There are plenty of much better places you can go to get your belief back. 2) If you have a mental condition, and you are aware of it, then consult a mental health professional. There are plenty of those too. I hope you see the flaw in your example of the heroin addict. I believe in drug counseling, not locking up drug users, so we agree in that sense. I think we also agree that the heroin addict needs to change. How you want to change is up to, since you are free to believe as wish.If I can't get those things back in my life, I will have to be locked away. Like I said, I am not sure if I can get my belief in the afterlife back since I have the mindset of a hardcore skeptic. Even with all the current evidence we have for near death experiences and psychic phenomena, I am aware of the famous skeptics such as Sean Carroll and Steven Novella and their arguments. In a way, it is sort of like I have their mindset. Since it is impossible to convince them with the current level of evidence we have, then I am afraid it could be impossible to convince me as well.
Mozart Link, you need to understand that life is what you make it. You can’t sit around and wait for meaning to be poured all over you and then feel good about it. You get out of life more than you put into it, and since it sounds like you are currently putting nothing into it, you’re getting nothing out of it.
Unfortunately for you, you have described an impossible situation and then asked for help escaping it. Unless you change your situation using the help and advice provided by many others on here, you will inevitably remain where you are. But it is totally possible to change your situation, no matter how hopeless things feel. One happy moment is worth an infinite number of unhappy ones, so even if it takes time and effort, it will all be worth it when you come out the other end.
If you have even the smallest amount of empathy for other people, then you can do nothing more rewarding than helping those in need. Your consolation, if you somehow don’t feel emotionally uplifted by helping someone in need, is that you will have your name and face out there as a good person - even a selfish, narcissistic person can appreciate that.
And go on the internet and search for deconversion stories from ex-Christians. They are almost universally ecstatically happy that they outgrew their old, life-deadening beliefs and embraced the life-affirming concepts of humanism. (I say ‘almost universal’, because of you. Every one I heard of was ecstatically happy until this thread.)
I sincerely wish you all the strength you need to grow out of your problem.
Mozart Link, you need to understand that life is what you make it. You can't sit around and wait for meaning to be poured all over you and then feel good about it. You get out of life more than you put into it, and since it sounds like you are currently putting nothing into it, you're getting nothing out of it. Unfortunately for you, you have described an impossible situation and then asked for help escaping it. Unless you change your situation using the help and advice provided by many others on here, you will inevitably remain where you are. But it is totally possible to change your situation, no matter how hopeless things feel. One happy moment is worth an infinite number of unhappy ones, so even if it takes time and effort, it will all be worth it when you come out the other end. If you have even the smallest amount of empathy for other people, then you can do nothing more rewarding than helping those in need. Your consolation, if you somehow don't feel emotionally uplifted by helping someone in need, is that you will have your name and face out there as a good person - even a selfish, narcissistic person can appreciate that. And go on the internet and search for deconversion stories from ex-Christians. They are almost universally ecstatically happy that they outgrew their old, life-deadening beliefs and embraced the life-affirming concepts of humanism. (I say 'almost universal', because of you. Every one I heard of was ecstatically happy until this thread.) I sincerely wish you all the strength you need to grow out of your problem.Like I said, I am willing to at least try any other way of living. But I can't guarantee this is going to work out for me and bring meaning to my life. When, for example, I help someone out in life, I find myself doing nothing more than just simply acknowledging that this was a good thing for that person. But that doesn't bring meaning to my life. After I help that person, I acknowledge that very fact, and then move on to my personal life I have always found meaning in which would be enjoying my life and hobbies through my feelings of enjoyment and through my belief in the afterlife. I am not happy any other way and I can't enjoy my life any other way. The reward system of our brains is what gives us the experience of happiness, enjoyment, and is what drives us, inspires us, and fills our lives with complete joy. This system of my brain is not active due to not only my anhedonia, but also my lack of belief in the afterlife (the biggest rewarding incentive in my mind that I have lost).
In High School, I lived in one of those small towns where we all drove back and forth on a strip, stopping at the pizza place, switching cars, joining up with friends, sometimes getting into trouble. I can’t go back to that. I lost the pleasure that came with it because I learned it was irresponsible and was not going to last forever. I’d give anything to get back that simple pleasure. Even if I rebuilt a classic car and participated in some sort of parade that recreated those days, it wouldn’t work because I know things now that I didn’t know then. It’s not fair.
I know that others are trying to help me here with new ways of looking at life. However, it just seems completely unnatural and not human at all. My life seems way off, nothing seems human anymore, and everything seems completely unnatural. I don’t see it as a human natural thing at all for someone to not only not need feelings of happiness/enjoyment, but to also not need an eternal blissful afterlife. This just isn’t human to me at all. I don’t see it as a human natural thing for someone to give up those things and live a different way of life and find meaning living like that. It is only through those two things I mentioned earlier that everything seems “right,” natural, and human.
I know that others are trying to help me here with new ways of looking at life. However, it just seems completely unnatural and not human at all. My life seems way off, nothing seems human anymore, and everything seems completely unnatural. I don't see it as a human natural thing at all for someone to not only not need feelings of happiness/enjoyment, but to also not need an eternal blissful afterlife. This just isn't human to me at all. I don't see it as a human natural thing for someone to give up those things and live a different way of life and find meaning living like that. It is only through those two things I mentioned earlier that everything seems "right," natural, and human.I'm very pleased to hear that you accept people are trying. We really can't ask more than that, even if we get it wrong. Intentions are important. It's not natural to not need feelings. You express the need, you just also have this condition that doesn't allow you to feel them. We call that "unnatural" because almost everyone is able to feel happy sometimes, and it is something we're born with. That's why you need professional help.
I know that others are trying to help me here with new ways of looking at life. However, it just seems completely unnatural and not human at all. My life seems way off, nothing seems human anymore, and everything seems completely unnatural. I don't see it as a human natural thing at all for someone to not only not need feelings of happiness/enjoyment, but to also not need an eternal blissful afterlife. This just isn't human to me at all. I don't see it as a human natural thing for someone to give up those things and live a different way of life and find meaning living like that. It is only through those two things I mentioned earlier that everything seems "right," natural, and human.I'm very pleased to hear that you accept people are trying. We really can't ask more than that, even if we get it wrong. Intentions are important. It's not natural to not need feelings. You express the need, you just also have this condition that doesn't allow you to feel them. We call that "unnatural" because almost everyone is able to feel happy sometimes, and it is something we're born with. That's why you need professional help.Agreed. Mozart Link, if you really are experiencing a complete lack of enjoyment from anything, you need to get help from a professional. You might need a prescription drug or counselling, neither of which can you get without legitimate professional help, so don't screw around with your local pastor or some 'all-natural feel-good remedy'. Life is what you make it. If you need help and you get help, you are making that happen, you are working at living your life the best you can. So don't look at help as a sign of weakness, look at it for what it is, you taking control and going out to get help where you need it. We all need others to survive, so getting help is the most natural thing you can do. I feel a bit weird trying to cheer you up when you freely admit that nothing can cheer you up. I guess I can still hope that you at least realize that we are honest in our attempts to help, and hope you can read our words and understand their intent even if you don't feel inspired or energized. Feel free to check out the 80's song Life is What You Make It by Talk Talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcHUxnpHxwY. It's my favorite running song because the beat is exactly right for me to have about a 5:00min/km pace (my goal is a half marathon in under 1hr 40min, so I'll need to get to a 4:40min/km pace eventually.)
I know I said I would sign off, but I am still here. People have been demanding that I change. But it's them who need to change. As long as they are the ones changing and are on my side and wish to approach my dilemma in a different way (the way I need in which others help me try to regain those things in my life), then these people are my friend rather than my enemies and I am willing to listen. This is the only way I am willing to listen to others. There is no other way that is going to be successful for me.It's good you're still here and still talking. I'm wondering who is trying to change you? You are right, Mozart, people should not try to change you. You have to want to change yourself and if not, people shouldn't try to change you. There is a Tao story (from"The Book of Chuang Tzu") in which the Emperor of the South Sea known as Change , and the Emperor of the ofNorth Sea, known as Dramatic, got with the Emperor of the Centre, called Chaos. Dramatic and Change noticed Chaos didn't have 7 orifices like they did, so each day, they put orifices in him. On the 7th day, Chaos died. The moral of the story is that to force change on another person destroys and is bad, so anyone who insists on changing you is in the wrong to do so, unless you ask for their help. I don't know of anyone here who wants to take away your beliefs though and honestly we can't, because you can leave this forum any time you like. You came here freely and can leave whenever want or stay and chat, maybe even learn a few things. Either way it's your choice.
Thank you for your concern and I know that you are trying to help me. But right now, I feel like I am not some human being who just needs some stern talking to. I feel like I am not a human being. I feel like I am an organism such as a plant that is solely meant for survival. That is, to live forever and be happy. Hopefully this feeling will pass and my life will change. I feel like I am supposed to be treated as such (that is, with compassion). To treat me with scorn like some others have here is to treat me as though I am a human being. I am not a human being. I am like a plant that needs water and sunlight. Me living forever and being happy is like the water and sunlight a plant needs to grow, thrive, and flourish. To have scorn towards me (such as how the user DarronS did) is no different than expecting a withered plant without water and sunlight to grow and thrive. That is how I feel right now. But like I said, I hope my life can change. I will try other ways of living and I hope it works out for me.