TimB: Let’s say that people acting according to a system that allows them to do things that hurts black people disproportionally and get away with it over and over and over, is a “systemic” dysfunction.
Sree: Sounds logical but you have to firstly explain what causes people to act according to that system; and, secondly, lay out the system structure so we understand how it operates.https://www.nbcdfw.com/lx/these-five-systems-often-protect-cops-from-criminal-accountability/2381894/
What about the black guy in the mix? Does what he thinks and his bad behavior have any impact on the cop and the system?People's thoughts are their own. We can not and should not try to police people's thoughts. We can only try to change people's thoughts to comport with what is best for all, by promoting the truth. That often does not work, hence we should focus on the behavior that we can actually observe.
We can only try to change people’s thoughts to comport with what is best for all, by promoting the truth. That often does not work, hence we should focus on the behavior that we can actually observe.Apparently, it didn't work and they focused on the behavior that called for a knee to the neck.
hurts black people disproportionallyIs it really disproportional? How many law officers are injured or killed every year? And is there a particular profile for those killing and fighting the cops? Do the cops know a black man is more likely to resist or flee than a white guy? If a cop knows he is more likely to have trouble with a black guy than with a white guy then of course the cop is going to be more "on edge" when confronting the black guy. Most cops are just ordinary people; if you put them in a bad situation they may not always act like a saint.
Besides that, we are not talking about “all” black people. The few black people the media show us getting hurt or killed are almost always young black men who have committed a crime and/or are resisting arrest or fleeing the cops. The real problem is not the cops, it is the young men who seem to think criminal activity is OK.
There are some who really believe that if I have a lot and they have little that it is OK for them to take from me. I suspect that attitude begins in the home. My evidence is that the families almost always present their injured/killed guy as a pillar of the community, one of the really great guys. I have heard not one express any grief for their guy having committed a crime. The families seem to be unable to recognize that a bad encounter with the cops started with bad behavior by their guy.
While we are focused on cleaning up our public spaces, lets remove that obscene desecration of the landscape where Trump had his rally (Mount Rushmore) and the carving on Stone Mountain in Georgia. Or does no one give a rip about what offends native peoples?
Anyone have any comment about the plans to paint the street in front of Emanuel AME Church with “White Lives Matter”?
https://nleomf.org/facts-figures/law-enforcement-factsThe right wing doesn't seem to have anything but diversions.
As Mriana has pointed out, yes all lives matter. Saying Black Lives Matter, does NOT preclude Cops Lives Matter!!!
We are talking about unaddressed racist mentality, that results in racist behavior and bad outcomes.
An awful lot of kids and adults were running away, or already under custody, and not threatening cops! The sad fact of cops getting killed doesn’t justify innocents getting shot.
But the right wing, with their White Superiority Complex gotta massage everything into their grotesque melodrama. That will only lead to continued disintegration of the national social contract we depend on for a civil society and lead us into lawless anarchy and self-destruction before its over.
pssst,
Felonious DeathsThe 55 felonious deaths occurred in 28 states and in Puerto Rico. The number of officers killed as a result of criminal acts in 2018 was 9 more than the 46 officers who were feloniously killed in 2017. The 5- and 10-year comparisons show an increase of 4 felonious deaths compared with the 2014 figure (51 officers) and an increase of 7 deaths compared with 2009 data (48 officers).
Officer Profiles. The average age of the officers who were feloniously killed was 37 years old. The victim officers had served in law enforcement for an average of 10 years at the times of the fatal incidents.
Of the 55 officers:
52 were male
3 were female
46 were white
7 were black/African American
2 were Native Hawaiian/Other Pacific IslanderCircumstances. Of the 55 officers feloniously killed:
23 died as a result of investigative or enforcement activities8 were performing investigative activities
6 were involved in tactical situations
3 were interacting with wanted persons
3 were investigating suspicious persons or circumstances
2 were conducting traffic violation stops
1 was handling a person with mental illness
11 were ambushed (entrapment/premeditation)6 were involved in pursuits
4 were involved in foot pursuits
2 were involved in vehicular pursuits
4 were responding to crimes in progress2 were burglaries in progress
1 was a report of a person with a firearm
1 was reported in the category of other crime against property.
3 were involved in arrest situations and were attempting to control/handcuff/restrain the offender(s) during the arrestsituations
2 were on administrative assignments and were performing prisoner transports
2 were assisting other law enforcement officers with foot pursuits
2 were responding to disorders or disturbances1 was responding to a disturbance call
1 was responding to a domestic violence call
1 was performing traffic control
1 was involved in an unprovoked attackWeapons. Offenders used firearms to kill 51 of the 55 victim officers. Four officers were killed with vehicles used as weapons.
Of the 51 officers killed by firearms:
37 were slain with handguns
10 with rifles
2 with shotguns
2 with firearms in which the types of firearms were not reported.Regions. Felonious deaths were reported in four U.S. regions and Puerto Rico:
26 officers were feloniously killed in the South
12 in the Midwest
12 in the West
4 in the Northeast
1 in Puerto Rico.Suspects. Law enforcement agencies identified 55 alleged assailants in connection with the felonious line-of-duty deaths:
49 of the assailants had prior criminal arrests
20 of the offenders were under judicial supervision at the times of the felonious incidents
We are talking about unaddressed racist mentality, that results in racist behavior and bad outcomes.
Exactly. There can be no real equality as long as the justice system does not have equality.
There can be no real equality as long as the justice system does not have equality.If you are speaking as a white person, then you make no sense unless you can point to any specific aspect of the law that treats you personally differently from another.
However, if you are one of those “dear white people” speaking up for black people, a perceived victimized group, then you need to realize that your criticism of the US justice system being biased against black people is untenable. Of course, it’s culturally biased because it is not a justice system created by black people for black people. America’s judicial system was founded in 1776 by white people for white people based on white Christian values. There are more white judges, prosecutors, defense lawyers, jurors, police officers because there are a lot more white people than black people in America. No other minorities - as ethnic groups - have been looting, burning and protesting against white police brutality and white injustice. The only justice system that has equality for black people can only be found in sub-saharan Africa.
However, if you are one of those “dear white people” speaking up for black people
Oh so I’m suppose to look the other way when white people treat my sons badly, just because they are 1/2 black? I’m suppose to look the other way when my next door neighbour is mistreated by police? That doesn’t make any sense. Not only that, they are not a “perceived victimized group”. Black people have been victimized for centuries, all because of the colour of their skin. My criticism of the U.S. justice system is quite justified because there are two standards of judgement in this country. Always has been.
America’s judicial system was founded in 1776 by white people for white people based on white Christian values
You just said it- there are two standards- black and white. However, you are wrong on one thing- our government is NOT based on Xianity. If one is black and are accused of a crime, the effort to prove the person innocence isn’t made as much as it is for a white person. More often than not, despite evidence of a black person’s innocence, they are strung up and sent up the river. It’s different for a white person, even with a common traffic stop. Collectively, minorities outnumber white people in the U.S. The only reason whites are the majority is that they have had the power for centuries in the country and some other countries too. Majority means those in power and isn’t necessarily related to numbers. Women are a minority, simply because they don’t have the power white men do to this day.
The only justice system that has equality for black people can only be found in sub-saharan Africa.
That is the most racist thing I’ve heard! It’s also really stupid thinking.
This video talks about capitalism, slavery, and oppression. You cannot have capitalism, without greed and oppression.
After that, this helped me realize the deal with the statues. I didn’t realize that Mount Rushmore was created on sacred ground. Now that I know, this changes everything in my view. The land was stolen and then they desecrate that land. It’s all wrong.
mriana: "You cannot have capitalism, without greed and oppression."In some crowds, uttering those words is enough to get you shunned at best and beat-up at worst.
The mindless love of capitalism is 100% religious thinking… zero facts and lots of emotion used to push it and continue believing it.
When the masses finally understand your statement to be true, society can advance. I guesstimate that in North America we’re at least two generations from that point.
In some crowds, uttering those words is enough to get you shunned at best and beat-up at worst.
I’ve been saying it for a long time and don’t care that I get shunned and I’ve also said at work too. Haven’t been fired yet and there are times I wish they would. Capitalism is a religion in and of itself, worshipping greed. Welcome to Hellmart, where people congregate every day to worship and feed greed. (I’ve said that at work too and ironically I’m still working in Hell.) See, Walmart knows it’s Hell and they know they are the Church of Greed competing with the other church of greed Amazon- The Amazonian Church of Greed. Both are huge plantations of modern day slavery, giving the slaves (AKA workers) scraps for paychecks, which, of course, is just enough for a set or two of clothes, shelter, scraps of cheap food, but not medical… the slaves need to treat themselves if they don’t have the money, but they’d better come in to work the fields, even though they are sick and contagious. (I’ve made that comparison too, but not at work. Too much detail.)
Did I mention I hate Capitalism, which is running our government currently? In fact, it’s a governmental system in and of itself, which is what is running this country. Again, did I mention I hate Capitalism? The damn Ferengis really hate that I am not for sale.
then you make no sense unless you can point to any specific aspect of the law that treats you personally differently from another. --SreeHere ya go:
If they were using this to kill rich white kids, it would be changed by the end of the week.
mriana: "...did I mention I hate Capitalism?"No, but if I had to guess, I'd say you're at least mildly unhappy with it.
Capitalism wouldn’t have the unearned position of being the only game in town if all the other alternatives weren’t demonized. Socialism is more vile a swear word than the “F”-word to most people. I don’t know anyone who understands that our healthcare, police, pensions, and every other social program is a form of socialism.
[Sorry for hijacking the thread. I don’t get into discussions on racism (the actual topic) since my life in rural Canada has exposed me to zero instances of what a visible minority has to deal with, and therefore I have nothing profound or informed to say on the topic. “Racism is ethically, legally, and morally wrong.”, is the extent of my possible input.
You may return to the original topic.]
… Canada has exposed me to zero instances of what a visible minority has to deal with ...In 1961, a guy came out with a book called "Black Like Me". You could do what he did, and then visit some US cities. Or you could just look into the book. It might well be in your local library or readable for free online somewhere.
Tim, The book looks interesting. I’ll see if I can get my hands on a copy.
I know there is racism in Canada. Many of my friends and family are racists to varying degrees.
Growing up in rural Albertan with no minorities as neighbors, going to a tiny country school with no minorities, and having the closest town have no visible minorities, has left me without any first hand experience of people being racist towards an individual. Some of my friends and family are very outspoken against minorities, but I have never seen the impact of that racism on the intended targets. Hearing their racist sentiments thrown around during a BBQ or over coffee is maddening. My anger would be much greater if I were to be present when those things were said directly to another person.
Am I lucky or unlucky to have never experienced that?
It’s in Scribd and Open Library and I’m sure many other places.
I don’t know anyone who understands that our healthcare, police, pensions, and every other social program is a form of socialism.
I understand it and with we had socialized medicine too. Socialism isn’t a bad thing. Any form of government can be corrupt and bad depending on who’s running and what they do with it. Of course the U.S. doesn’t have a democracy currently, thanks to the dotad. He’s the fascist.