It sounds as if you are really upset that fantasy isn’t reality. If it bothers you that much, I suggest you may want to see if you can find a continuing source of marijuana or possibly even LSD. That way, you could get the pleasure of continually living in your fantasy world. :lol:
Occam
I doubt that any of us can come up with enough data to convince those of the opposite views. I guess we'll just have to wait two or three decades to see which of our predictions is more accurate. Unfortunately, life extension research isn't progressing fast enough to allow me to see those results. Oh well, at least I can die happy, being sure my view are correct. :lol: OccamMy point to Lois was she doesn't use data at all, and lately she's been saying things THAT (edit) are easily shown to be not true. And, I wasn't necessarily making predictions, I asked you to compare now with anytime in history and show me how it is worse now. What has been shown not to be true? I gave my opinion, I stated it as my opinion. Who or what has shown,that it is not my opinion? What "data" should I provide to show that it's my opinion? What data do you use to show that something is your opinion? [if necessary, see my explanation under "Introduce Yourself" as to why I had to reregister as a new member under the name LoisL). If LoisL is the same as Lois, then you've stated there is a crisis or a crisis looming. In the thread about Mexicans, you tried to back this up with several statements about unemployment, crime and housing. All of them have data that is easily found that showed where you said something was growing, it was in fact shrinking. I provided links there. If you want to give opinions, fine. But don't expect to engage in a discussion if you expect me to simply accept your opinion and move on. That's not what a forum is for. What is it for, then?
What is it for, then?a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
Also, I already realize that fantasy is not real. But the feelings of pleasure from fantasy (only in terms of electrical activity in the brain), that is real. Me feeling that I'm a superior god-like being is not real, but just the feeling itself in terms of brain activity is real.That's one of the most honest things you've said. At least you are owning it as your own feelings, not some proof that everyone should feel this way, or that pleasure is the basis of everything. If you are looking for validation that escaping reality is somehow better, you won't get it from me. I'd rather live in the real world.
I agree with you about living in the real world, Lausten.
I’m reminded about the test where biologists placed electrodes in the pleasure (orgasmic) center of rat brains. The rats could give themselves a jolt of pleasure by pressing a lever. There also was food and water in their cages. However, once the rats discovered the lever, they kept pressing it until they starved to death. I think a nice balance of occasional pleasure, occasional pain (psychological or physical) and a great deal of just living is the way to go.
Occam
What is it for, then?a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged. That's exactly what I've been using it for. Lois
What is it for, then?a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged. That's exactly what I've been using it for. Lois o·pin·ion əˈpinyən/Submit noun a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge. dis·cus·sion disˈkəSHən/Submit noun the action or process of talking about something, typically in order to reach a decision or to exchange ideas
Oh, come on, Lausten. If we were just basing everything on facts, we could skip all discussions and spend our time reading Wikipedia and text books. A great deal of our discussions here are based on diverse opinions of the members. However, I believe that we essentially never have opinions without some data we’ve learned to back them up. Unfortunately, the data sometimes comes from places like the bible or fox news (I’m sure the other side could give similar sources), but that’s what makes for interesting discussions.
The function of a “dis·cus·sion” often seems to be to identify and separate those “o·pin·ions” “based on fact or knowledge” from those “not necessarily”.
Occam
Perhaps the main (and maybe only reason) that I feel this way is because I am, in fact, an anime fan. I not only embrace the world of fantasy and anime and make it a part of me, but I also embrace the god-like characters I perceive as awesome and make them a part of me. I make them possess me and make them take over my own perceived personality and I literally become a god-like character (only in terms of how I feel about myself–I don’t literally act or talk like these characters).
Our brain is just a bunch of neurons which means that it contains many, many different personalities besides our own. Now how you feel and perceive yourself right now would be your own default personality (your own life essence) that tends to stay with you on a daily basis. But if you were to, for example, feel like a different character from a movie, then your default personality (life essence) has been changed to that character. Your brain has temporarily abandoned its own perceived self and transformed into a different person. You are free to do this any time you want in order to make yourself feel like a mystical god-like superior fantasy character. You would now have the life essence of that character other than your own.
Perhaps the main (and maybe only reason) that I feel this way is because I am, in fact, an anime fan. I not only embrace the world of fantasy and anime and make it a part of me, but I also embrace the god-like characters I perceive as awesome and make them a part of me. I make them possess me and make them take over my own perceived personality and I literally become a god-like character (only in terms of how I feel about myself--I don't literally act or talk like these characters). Our brain is just a bunch of neurons which means that it contains many, many different personalities besides our own. Now how you feel and perceive yourself right now would be your own default personality (your own life essence) that tends to stay with you on a daily basis. But if you were to, for example, feel like a different character from a movie, then your default personality (life essence) has been changed to that character. Your brain has temporarily abandoned its own perceived self and transformed into a different person. You are free to do this any time you want in order to make yourself feel like a mystical god-like superior fantasy character. You would now have the life essence of that character other than your own.Makes for great fiction, but not so good for basing your life on. Also, you are falling into the "it's just" fallacy. There isn't a fallacy named that, but it's the idea that once you reduce a more complex thing into something less complex, you can say "it's just ". You brain is not just neurons.] The collection of neurons plus all the other stuff around them makes it something that has properties that we are just beginning to understand.
Oh, come on, Lausten. If we were just basing everything on facts, we could skip all discussions and spend our time reading Wikipedia and text books. A great deal of our discussions here are based on diverse opinions of the members. However, I believe that we essentially never have opinions without some data we've learned to back them up. Unfortunately, the data sometimes comes from places like the bible or fox news (I'm sure the other side could give similar sources), but that's what makes for interesting discussions. The function of a "dis·cus·sion" often seems to be to identify and separate those "o·pin·ions" "based on fact or knowledge" from those "not necessarily". OccamRight, and Lois resisted that attempt to separate opinion from fact. Claiming that stating an opinion is fine and there was no reason for me to point that out.
Also, I am a person who is attached to fantasy no matter what and I wish to use that in composing music. I wish to compose music that has a fantasy-like feel. So, in a sense, I would have made this reality the living fantasy I want by living a life of composing the music I want and such and not living a life of what reality wants me to be (which would be having struggles of depression that take away my feelings of pleasure towards fantasy as well as having the attitude and such of a normal person who is accepting of the fact that there is no God and no afterlife and that fantasy is just a delusion and that reality is what needs to be accepted and lived by). I wish to live the way I want and have the attitude I want and pursue that in composing music.
But I now have anhedonia which has taken away all feelings of pleasure which now makes me even more unaccepting and hateful towards reality for taking away who I want to be and the life I want to live.
I wish to live the way I want and have the attitude I want and pursue that in composing music. But I now have anhedonia which has taken away all feelings of pleasure which now makes me even more unaccepting and hateful towards reality for taking away who I want to be and the life I want to live.A lot of people have wishes like that. An actual untreatable condition like that obviously makes it harder to attain. I don't know if spending a lot of time on the internet is helpful. My guess is it will be harmful. I get some intellectual stimulation that is difficult to find in this backwater where I live, but I wouldn't say it gives me much pleasure. Occam cracks a good joke now and then, but you need people to help get you through the day.
Reality does not have a “consciousness” and therefore can have no “intention” to force its’ will upon us in the way we live our lives. The pressure you feel to live in a way that makes you unhappy is within you and is a projection of the way you view reality.
If fantasy becomes real, it has become reality. To feel superior to reality by embracing fantasy you need to know what reality is, from that it follows that you know that your fantasy is not. You would be deluding yourself to think otherwise, as you aptly mention for an afterlife and the existence of a god. You know it is a fantasy, yet you wish it were so. This is wishful thinking, an unreasonable hope. Furthermore, you want to feel empowered, feel superior? Assume your fantasies become real, part of reality, that there is a god, an afterlife, whatever else is in your fantasies? How would this new reality make you feel empowered or superior? It would be this way for everyone. If comparing yourself to your past self instead others however, you would only see that reality itself was different then. So you want to feel superior or empowered by the changing of the natural laws, of reality itself? Assume your fantasies don't become real, that they will always be fantasies. How do you feel empowered by having them? You know they are fake, wrong, impossible, how would they empower you or make you feel superior? It would make you feel worse about reality, worse than your wishes would want you to be. Be under the illusion that your fantasies are real, what then? This would be your personal reality, cognitive dissonance all the way. But how would you feel superior, or empowered? What do you compare it to? This would be no different than the first example, except you'd actually be insane and living your life apart from everyone else. Although, there's the possibility that one of your fantasies is you becoming superior to your current points of reference, without changing said points. I think there's a name for this kind of insanity, but I'm not sure.Even if fantasy were reality, I would feel empowered anyway due to the fact that this is just who I am--I feel empowered by mystical things and things that offer you a God and an afterlife of eternal joy (religion, but without the morals since I am against morals and don't care what others think and only care about what I think and my own perceptions of reality). As for feeling superior, since there would be no inferior concepts of reality to compare myself to if life were a fantasy, I wouldn't feel superior--I would just simply feel empowered. Though I could imagine a life where there are struggles, no God or afterlife, depression, etc. and feel superior to that. To me, being superior is not about facing your struggles in life or dealing with the fact that there is no God or afterlife. It is about feeling empowered by fantasy and not dealing with these things as well as looking at the fact that there is no God or afterlife as something false through your own deluded world (a world that you have created for yourself that you want to have rather than what reality itself "wants").
Your reasoning(not sure if I can call you intelligent) has led you to the conclusion that it's highly unlikely there is no god (Atheism). Your model of reality, crafted by reason and experience, allows you to see and acknowledge your fantasies are just that, fantasies. I think you'll love the movie "The Congress".It requires intelligence in the first place to come to the conclusion that there is no God or afterlife and this is what I mean by intelligence.
Do you think that without it there would be no unpleasant things, that everything would be like a dream? Everything exactly as you imagine it to be? Or do you think it might turn to a nightmare, unable to explain anything what is going on around you? How would you choose what to believe and what not to? Would you only listen to your own delusions, to be apart from everything else?It would depend on what type of person I am. Since I am a person who feels empowered and superior through fantasy, then this is how I would feel. Some would say that a life without struggles and a life with a God and a promised afterlife would have no value or worth and that it would be more motivating to have struggles and for this life to be the one and only life. But for me, it would be the opposite and I would feel much more motivated and "pushed" to do things in life and I would feel empowered and superior living a life of no struggles and there being a God and a promised afterlife.
You want to be superior to everyone else, to do whatever you want without consequence, and shape the world you see to your liking? Ah alright, and how would this work? Other people exist, with the same powers as you actually do in reality. You'd need to have reality itself change, or be locked away/shot as an insane person would. So why are you wishing for this, exactly? You know it won't happen, you should know just thinking you can will let you.As for why I am wishing for that despite the fact that it will never happen is because, despite the fact that I know what reality is, I am completely detached from it and only care about my own perceptions. Actually, I am not wishing since there would obviously be no point since wishing won't make anything happen, I am just expressing how I feel reality should be and that how my "god-like" fantasy perceptions are superior to reality for me. I feel that I as a person and my perceptions are far superior to the universe and its own "intentions." The universe's intention was only to create us for survival and to simply just die in the end and go nowhere. Though the human mind is an amazing organ, the problem is that it is just simply designed for survival and to just simply forever die in the end and nothing more. I consider that a waste. All these amazing complex functions for that? My version of reality would be far superior to that in which we didn't evolve through Darwinian evolution, but through omnipotent evolution in which we are all gods with our minds and bodies designed for immortality, to be forever happy and feel superior and empowered, rule the universe, etc. Actually, it would be a superior god-like universe in which our minds are completely different and have god-like functions and have the ability to experience otherworldly god-like feelings of pleasure.
So, how would you kill these concepts? These struggles in life, depressions, there not being an afterlife, no god? What are they inferior to? Define your god, and how it would be superior to there not being a god(Still wishful thinking), define your afterlife(Still wishful thinking), and tell us what these struggles in life are, what causes these depressions? This entire sentence is garbage.If I were to believe in a God and an afterlife, I would look at atheism and I would laugh at it and it would be "dead" to me. So, in a sense, by believing in a God and an afterlife, I would have killed atheism (caused it to be dead) in my own point of view.
You, a person, can only compare yourself to your past self, or another person. So what you want is to keep improving yourself if going by just that. It gets weird when you mention reality though. How do you compare yourself to reality that excludes comparing yourself to other people? You already compare yourself to.. yourself, or past self really. Please explain how you'd do that. You're pretty insane though.What I meant by reality is just these inferior concepts of reality such as there being no God or afterlife, there being struggles in life, depression, etc. As for everything else in life that is pleasurable in life (other people and such), that is nothing to frown upon or to feel superior to.
Also, I already realize that fantasy is not real. But the feelings of pleasure from fantasy (only in terms of electrical activity in the brain), that is real. Me feeling that I'm a superior god-like being is not real, but just the feeling itself in terms of brain activity is real.That’s what is known as the spirit. And you should feel god like. In the ancient religions, god was a collection of man’s knowledge. When a lot of spirits gathered in one spot or with one person, they formed a Gnostic cloud that omitted light, called the Holy Spirit. This light transformed knowledge to the people. Check out the old pictures of Jesus that were painted in the old churches. Jesus was always standing on a cloud that omitted light. So, my guess is that your feeling that you are having have been around with mankind for a very long time.
If you believe power corrupts.
Then it’s quite simple.
The people that represent and speak for god are bad.
Not saying all religions are bad, just the religions with Deities are bad over time for mankind.
I can’t find who you were quoting Mozart. Honestly, whoever it was, I would ignore them.
If, let’s pretend, there were a portal right there in front of me right now that would lead me to a life of perfection and eternal joy and I had the choice to either go into that portal or instead remain here on Earth and suffer with depression and such and help other people, I would go into that portal. Now before you think negative of me and such, I would actually take care of this situation of other people not being helped by having someone take my place to help others and make up for the help I chose not to offer. Then after I have chosen someone, I would then enter the portal and leave this world.
If you still think negative of me and such, I am going to clearly prove you wrong. First off, this is a “two birds with one stone situation” in which I have not only taken care of the situation in which other people have not been helped by me, but I also have given myself a life of perfection and eternal joy as well. Second, for you to still think negative of me would mean that you think that having this burden placed on someone else in helping others is more important than my own emotional well-being (my pleasure and such). This is obviously wrong and my emotional well-being is far more important than some extremely minor inconvenience in comparison in which this person would have to make up for the help I did not offer others.
Also, life has no meaning and is whatever meaning you give it. So whatever meaning I give myself such as that my happiness is the most important thing more important than anything in the world and I am all great, etc., then this would be something true (only for me).
Now being alive is superior to being dead as long as you have pleasure. So if I am emotionally alive (have all the pleasure in the world), then that makes me superior and a better person than if I were to be depressed and numb (emotionally dead) regardless of who I am, what attitude I have, and how much I help others. Even if I were a psychopath and killed many people, as long as I have all the pleasure in the world, that would make me a far better and superior person than if I were someone who is depressed and emotionally numb and helped and cared for other people. Pleasure is the absolute and defining life force of “living” and a living thing that makes you better and superior (as I know just how good of a experience pleasure is and how much it makes life worth living and is the only thing to me that makes life worth living). Without it, you are nothing regardless of how much you help others and such. So even if I didn’t choose to have someone take my place in helping others before I went into that portal, I would still be the better person for choosing to have all the pleasure in the world and living a life of self-empowerment, perfection, and eternal joy.
If someone were to try to prevent me from entering that portal, even if they were innocent, I would become a psychopath and ruthlessly kill this person for not having any value towards my own emotional well-being and instead choosing to view helping others as far more important and devaluing my own emotional well-being for this sake (when I clearly know that my own emotional well-being is far more important in this case, especially since I have chosen to have someone take my place in helping others). This is another reason why I feel empowered by watching anime and feeling empowered from characters in anime who are ruthless and have a sense of self-empowerment and such. So in killing this person trying to prevent me from entering that portal, I would of felt awesome just like these ruthless characters.
Finally, if I had the choice to either be retarded and have all the pleasure in the world and give the person the burden of having to take care of me or to be intelligent and have no pleasure and not give a person this burden, I would not only choose to be retarded for all of my reasons given here, but also because this person (especially if it were my own family) should value my own emotional well-being in which they would be devastated knowing the fact that I am living a life of no pleasure despite the fact that I am intelligent and such. And that it would be far better for them to have the burden of taking care of me if I were retarded because, even though they would have this burden and perhaps a hard life resulting from it, they would at least know that I am happy and that would make them feel happy and at peace as opposed to them being devastated if I were intelligent and such with no pleasure.