I need information on alien abduction cases and reports I’m collecting information for a project that will be of interest
Oh Lord if I’m abducted, don’t let it be the Greys. The little grey guys with the big black eyes from a galaxy far away. (Tho I prefer to think of them as what is left of humans from the far distant future. i.e, not aliens, after all, but rather our descendants who have traveled back to our time.)
why don’t you like Greys is it because they do experimentation on abductees or some othe reason can you elaborate on this for me
I’ve heard the grays are mean and do cruel experiments. I haven’t gotten into much of the research on alien abductions yet. I’m still working on UFOs.
Philosophicus
Travelers’ first contact protocol must be based on long-term survival of both travelers and indigenous species. The first question to be answered is whether indigenous species are successful in the environment. Travelers’ observations will likely yield more reliable results when the travelers are not discovered. The travelers must plan for observing over an extended period.
Once it is determined that the indigenous species and the environment are stable, or at least evolving predictably, the next question is whether the environment can support the travelers. It is not likely that an entire ecosystem on a new world could be modified to the conditions on the travelers’ home world without threatening indigenous species. If the travelers are to inhabit a new world, and co-exist with indigenous species, it is probable that the travelers will have to modify at least some number of individuals of their own species.
Reports we have today of “aliens” performing “experiments” on humans are likely evidence of travelers’ efforts to take samples to use in genetically re-engineering their own DNA so that they can survive the plethora of bacteria and viruses in Earth’s environment. Beyond that, it may be that travelers would want to modify their appearance in order to be more appealing or at least less threatening to the indigenous species.
Oh, I’ll take the grays every time. As you know, I’m not into butt stuff at all, but I’ll take an anal probing any time. The lizard people want to mate with us (yuck) and the mantis people would probably eat my head AFTER mating with me (double yuck). If I’m going to mate with something I’d rather it be a cold, compassionless anal probe than a bug or a lizard.
All of that is pure speculation. We don’t know what life on another planet may or may not look like because we’ve never seen it. We don’t know that life elsewhere in the universe even would have something we would recognize as DNA because, again, we have never sampled life elsewhere in the universe. We don’t know that they would be carbon based
And all evidence suggests that the reports we have today of “aliens” performing experiments are overactive imaginations, mental issues and outright lies. These so called “reports” are all, 100% anecdotal evidence and they cannot agree what these visitors look like, what they’re doing here, how they’re doing it or even where they’re from. The claims include alien planet, under the surface of the Earth and even other dimensions. There is no reason whatsoever to take any of these reports seriously until empirical evidence is found to support them.
John Mack, Budd Hopkins, Karla Turner, Barbara Bartholic, Eve Lorgen, Corrado Malanga
You can start there. If you are serious about researching this topic, keep it to yourself. Don’t try and convince anyone, just seek the truth- skeptics have already made up their mind and will only seek to embarrass your efforts. The reality is that there is more evidence to support this phenomenon than there is to rule it out.
skeptics have already made up their mindThen they aren't skeptics. It's normal to be skeptical of things that aren't obvious and well established. Don't hijack a word then abuse it.
While I agree that it is normal (and healthy) to be skeptical, some areas of research are met with a level of skepticism that is beyond what is typically applied to other areas. This involves consequences and risks for the researcher which are not present in other fields that may be considered more “normal”. John Mack was the head of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School; after writing a book about his findings, he was to endure a 14 month investigation brought upon him by the dean (even though he was not suspected of any ethics violations or professional misconduct at the time). Is it normal to subject a tenured professor to such a degree for no reason other than the subject matter?
Anyone serious about researching alien abductions will be met with great resistance, ridicule, and threat to their professional status. You’re right, that goes beyond skepticism.
Dr Mack shrugged off demands for physical evidence, saying such demands were merely part of a flawed “Western” construct of science that failed to appreciate “other dimensions”—dimensions that he said could not be measured or proved by ordinary means.Yeah, if you claim the very methods you are hired to use are not valid, you're going to get investigated. That's true in any profession.
The paragraph regarding Dr Mack continues “…By listening to patients carefully, Dr Mack claimed he could determine that their stories were true and not explainable by other phenomena such as mental illness, sleep paralysis, seizures, or dreams.”
He was being honest, the dimensions that he describes can’t be measured or proved by ordinary means. (At the same time they cannot be disproved).
The thing is, there will never be physical proof of alien life (at least the aliens that contribute to the abductions). They (alien races) will never reveal themselves, and any hard physical evidence will most likely never be made available for the public. The best data available is through hypnotic regression, which when performed correctly, with control groups, has revealed stunning details that correlate between samples. In other words, the same things are being described by different people, in every continent, everywhere. Dr Mack may not have been the greatest researcher in applying hypnotic regressive techniques towards the abduction problem, but he was certainly qualified.
So much wrong with that. First, it is a well known fact that many, if not most, hypnotherapists treating “abductees” are actually planting the “recovered” memories. Hypnosis is not magic. It’s barely scientific. It’s an altered mental state during which the subject willingly gives control over to another. The subject will enter REM when in a hypnotic trance, just like when dreaming, or even daydreaming. REM is associated with our minds fabricating things on a subconscious level. When we DON’T enter REM is when we’re thinking really hard to retrieve lost memories.
As for the dimensions he described not being measurable or provable through ordinary means, pure hogwash. If humans can perceive them, they can be measured and studied. You go out of your way to say that they cannot be disproved, but that is actually true of all things which aren’t real. Since fairies don’t exist you’re not going to find anti-fairy footprints where fairies didn’t walk to prove they don’t exist. That which does not exist does not leave behind evidence of any kind, including evidence to prove its nonexsitence. Simply stating it can’t be disproved is evidence of confirmation bias.
And then you claim that there will never be proof of what you believe? That’s just nonsense. These beings are so perfect that they will never slip up and leave behind evidence? Except all the times they slip up and screw up the mind wipes. THEN they’re not perfect. Or, when they do leave behind something, our government is the perfect one, capable of hiding something for all eternity. Our own history will show you that simply isn’t true. We know about our government purposely exposing our troops to radiation from atomic bombs to see what it would do to them. We know about our government purposely infecting people in South America with STDs to see how it would affect their children. The government is notoriously bad at keeping secrets. Hell, they just accidentally released classified UFO footage a few weeks ago. But in these claims they’re always perfect at it, never letting the “truth” slip.
This is a classic “This is totally true but I can’t prove it because GIANT CONSPIRACY!” claim. The proof that it’s true is that there cannot be proof that it’s true. That’s just now how it works. Eyewitness accounts are notoriously unreliable. This is ESPECIALLY true when those accounts are being manipulated while the subject is in an altered mental state vaguely resembling a dream state.
As for the accounts all being the same, ever heard of the grays? Know what they look like? Me too. So if I were to imagine what an alien abductor might look like how likely do you think it would be that I describe the same short, gray skinned, big eyed creatures described around the world? And it’s not always the same descriptions, is it? Sometimes they’re lizard people. Sometimes they’re mantis people. Sometimes the grays have mantis people as a sort of labor force. The great thing about working with anecdotal evidence is that you get to pick and choose which stories are “real” and which stories are “fantasies”. So the ones I like, the ones that match, those are “real”. And the ones I don’t like, the ones that don’t match, those are “fantasy”. And if I hear something new that I really like, but it doesn’t match what everyone else is telling me, I simply ask my subjects, “Did you, by any chance, happen to see giant humanoid mantis looking things acting as a sort of work force under the command of the grays” and, wouldn’t you know it, the subject suddenly “remembers” that little tidbit.
Mack, I’m at the end of 24 page discussion in the religion section. It ended like most internet discussion, nowhere. That’s why I wrote this https://centerforinquiry.org/forums/topic/humean-skepticism/#post-315099. So, I kind of appreciate that you start right out saying “you can’t disprove it”, it tells me that you are willing to say there should be ultimate skepticism of what can be demonstrated and is most likely true, while at the same time, be “open minded” to that which has an extremely small probability of being true. There’s not much hope for any real conversation when you start like that.
Widdershin, I agree that many hypnotherapists may be applying incorrect techniques and may, either deliberately or accidentally suggest/plant ideas into their subjects. While you may be able to plant an idea into a subject, I don’t think that you can actually instill entire episodes with the detail and frequency that have been found. The problem is that there are a bunch of quacks out there, spreading all sorts of nonsense and speculation, so it becomes difficult to separate legitimate studies from half-hoaxes. I absolutely agree on this.
I’ll concede the prove/disprove argument because I was not thinking about its applicability towards topics such as religion/god. Yes, I do have confirmation bias on the topic of abductions, so what? That is because I have been studying this phenomenon and have a greater understanding of it than you. I don’t want to convince you, or anyone else about it either way. Read my first post above, all I was saying was that if the original poster really wanted to research this, just do it, don’t try and convince anyone, just seek the truth. But here I am being attacked over my statement regarding skeptics, who are clearly biased based on their perception of our reality (uninformed and without any serious research into this field). I have no idea about fairies, I have no opinions, I do not know if they exist or not, I could care less. But if I did care, I would not form an opinion about that until I conduct research adequate to rule out the possibility of their existence.
All things perceived cannot be proven. Modern science can’t prove the pranic system or nadis, but they were described 6,000 years ago and have been a reality for yogis and others studying similar practices since then. It is not paranormal, it is not mystical, it is quite simply a pathway for the circulation and integration of energies into our physical system. Can we prove it? Does that make it not real? Did gamma rays exist before we could measure them? Do I care if you (or anyone) are adequately convinced about the alien abduction phenomenon?
My claim of there not being proof of the aliens behind the abductions is based on my understanding of the phenomenon. Their strength lies in us staying unaware of their existence. They mess up all the time, I never said they were perfect. They have a technological advantage over us which we will never match, but no one is perfect; we actually have an advantage over them, that is why they are here in the first place. Still, don’t expect physical proof- I never mentioned a conspiracy, I don’t want to go there. The proof is in the abductees, being returned to an incorrect place, having their clothing on backwards, etc. The messed up mind wipes are not a fault of the aliens, but of abductees gaining awareness and willingness to remember. Often something benign can trigger a memory, for example, the hum of an air conditioner, or something with a noise or smell similar to what was experienced. These traumas are real, these people have issues.
Regarding the grays, is there so much information about them out there? Do you know how they act, how they smell, how many are typically present during an abduction, what their purpose is? Yes, they are the most famous of the phenomenon. That doesn’t mean that people are able to describe their actions in the same way due to publicized media, you won’t find the detail regarding the grays on TV. They smell terrible, like death, like something horrible which is described similarly in nearly every account. They don’t control anything other than the abductee, they don’t control mantis creatures or reptiles, you’ve got it backwards. They grays are a type of cyborg, they are living flesh, but they themselves are not really alive, they have some sort of computer incorporated within them. There are different types of grays, and the differences described in the accounts led to much confusion during the early years of study, since the differences could not be accurately addressed and therefore led to problems with the scientific method applied to their study. It turns out that the grays are controlled by the other races, the grays do the work. There will always be several grays to one commanding race type (reptoid, mantis, humanoid, etc). Each race has their own type of gray, that is what attributes to the differences in the grays themselves. Since grays are the first and last creatures to been seen during an abduction (they do the work), that is why we have the most accounts of them, they are the easiest to remember.
It is true, there are several races competing amongst themselves. Yes, there are reptile-like, mantis-like, humanoid-like, non-physical beings, and others. I guess that’s just how it is… is that really surprising? That there be more than one type of alien race conducting abductions on people? What is actually more disturbing are the reports of human military also present during abductions, it really does seem like science fiction. Probably better to forget about it all and just call it a fantasy, it makes more sense and lends to a better night’s sleep.
Yes, I do have confirmation bias on the topic of abductions, so what? That is because I have been studying this phenomenon and have a greater understanding of it than you.You don't understand what "bias" means. If you have more information than I do, then you can impart that information. So far, you have listed some names of people who have already been studied and found wanting, and written these incredibly long thesis on what "proof" is. Saying that you know what they smell like is not information that I can use. To show something is true you need something demonstrable and verifiable. I don't know why people have so much trouble with that.
Studied and found wanting? Why do you pretend to be an authority on something when you have a limited understanding of it? I provided those names for anyone interested in furthering their knowledge on this, beyond what a 10 minute google search may suggest.
Impart that information? Seriously? Corrado Malanga has published thousands of pages regarding his research, if you care to, read it. I’m not going to hold your hand, I’m not looking to prove anything. Since when is referencing previously completed work unacceptable? That is how science works, it builds on previous knowledge. Clearly I misunderstood this forum. I doubt you will find anyone serious about this topic posting here, given the condescending attitudes. Good luck with your forum.
Ah, the old “this forum isn’t interested in inquiry” argument. One of my favorites.
I’ve provided no more or less information about this than you, so how do you know my understanding is limited? Do you know that the number of pages someone has written is not correlated to the quality of those pages? Do you know that telling someone to go read a book is not the same as “referencing” something?
Widdershins: “All of that is pure speculation.”
What I tried to point out is that if we ever do go to another planet with intelligent life it is likely that we will behave pretty much like the supposed aliens some believe are here.
I suggest that we might want to consider that “they” are not doing anything to us that we wouldn’t do to life forms we might discover on another planet.
First of all, relax. I said I disagree with you and am not convinced by your evidence or methodology, not that I was going to try to sleep with your mother or something. I’m not telling you that I have definitive answers that you must accept, simply pointing out where I disagree and why.
That being said, that entire response was a lot of self-important drivel and some outright untruths. In one sentence you absolutely inferred that, since the aliens would not willingly reveal themselves and any evidence would never be released to the public, that the aliens could never accidentally reveal themselves, implying perfection, and that there was a government conspiracy to hide the truth from the public. You very much did mention perfection and conspiracy. You just avoided explicitly naming them.
Then there was some crying about poor you being attacked by the evil skeptics and how anyone who disagrees with you does so either because they haven’t bothered to get the facts or they’re just too scared to know the truth. Even your confession of bias was insincere (and uninformed). After confessing to your own bias you had to put that bias onto skeptics (anyone who disagrees with you) as well so that the two were “even” before you started piling on more negatives to weight the scale in your favor.
Typical emotional argument, generally given by one who subconsciously understands the weakness of their case. Since you don’t have any evidence to support your claim, but you really, really want to believe it, you resort to emotional arguments. You start by explaining why science doesn’t apply to you special case. Then you boost yourself up by having the integrity to admit a flaw, but then you put that same flaw onto your opponent, who did not have the integrity to admit to that flaw, so that’s a negative to them and a plus to you. You then go on to pile on more negatives to them. They haven’t done the research, they don’t want to know the truth so they can sleep at nights, blah, blah, blah. You don’t know what research I’ve done. You don’t know what I want. But you assign these negative traits to me because it helps you maintain your belief in the absence of actual facts. If you have facts, present them. If you don’t, quit wasting my time.
By the way, I actually HAVE looked into the whole alien visitation thing. Not this specific aspect, but in general. And if you think I would lose sleep if I was absolutely certain that, not only are we not alone in the universe, but there’s a chance that I may some day have the opportunity to leave this muddy rock and explore “out there” on other planets, to see the wonders of new worlds with my own eyes, well if you think that then you’re just straight up delusional.
Really? You think there’s a good chance that we would engage in kidnapping and torture with no regard for the intelligent life we found? We would be curious enough about them to study them, but not curious enough to introduce ourselves and ask them questions? There would be no outcry at our governments kidnapping and carving up intelligent alien beings, so long as they got a half-assed mind wipe which failed at the drop of a hat out of the deal? Would YOU strap a terrified, intelligent being to a table and cut into it while it was awake, with no anesthetic, tormenting and terrifying it, justifying that it’s okay because you were going to (mostly) erase the memory of the ordeal? I couldn’t do that to a dumb animal, much less an intelligent being. If you could there’s something wrong with you.
You have to love the irony, don’t you? On the one hand you have the ID proponents demanding that we prove, definitively, in a way they won’t reject (which doesn’t exist) that evolution is scientifically viable. They’re pushing ID by demanding we prove its competition. On the other hand the people who don’t have a specific science to argue against telling us that they have nothing to prove. It’s almost as if the cards are always stacked against science by anyone with a hoakey belief system…but of course I can’t prove that scientifically when commanded to, nor can I produce the specific transitional fossil linking whales to cats or whatever weird thing randomly demanded, so it must not be true.