I am afraid you and mike have it backwards. Its the fake left that is leading us to a catastrophic world war
I will debate you on the issue. I do not have it backward.
It is Biden who is pushing the nuclear war.
Ukraine application for NATO was a treaty braker. Remember the United States talked Russia into agreeing that Russia would give up all nuclear in Ukraine for the agreement that Ukraine would never join NATO. A treaty sponsored by the US and signed by the US is not worth the paper it is written on.
To say Putin invaded Ukraine is like saying invading Puerto Rico is invading the United States. It is not Putin committing genocide. It is Biden. Plain and simple. You hear people saying Israel is committing genocide. No, Israel is reacting to having Israelis killed. Same thing Putin did. Ukraine was killing Russians in the oblasts years before Putin reacted.
I think it is the left and right. The swamp is reason for the war. Ukraine was a piggy bank for the DC swamp. No way they could let Trump see what was going on there.
It think fake leftist is apt . A leftist would not advocate war over diplomacy and fully support a genocide. This is what I read from the likes of W4u and the forever blue crowd
Show me that in the treaty. It was part of the negotiations with people from a generation ago. We arenāt bound to every word ever said for all time
That is utterly ridiculous.
No, Ukraine was dealing with Ukrainians who wanted to break away from Ukraine, just like there are people in Texas who want to secede from the US.
In December 2023, the Texas Nationalist Movement claimed that it collected enough signatures under the petition to include a question on secession on the ballot in 2024. .
If Texas fielded an army to bring this about, the federal government would have no option but to dispatch the army to quell the insurrection. people might die.
Facts first please
When Ukraine became independent, an agreement was concluded. Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons and its borders integrity were guaranteed by Russia and USA. Ukraine had no need to enter Nato and it was not an issue.
Independence was approved nationwide, east and Crimea included.
At the same time USA agreed with Russia that Nato would not extend to ancient URSS territories.
Nato was not an issue. When Putin came to power relationships were so good that Russia integration in it was dreamed.
In 2014, an Ukrainian government came to power and prepared a treaty with Europe. Putin was so angry that he exercised coercition and the government backed off. That provoked the MaĆÆdan revolution in 2014.
Putin answered by taking Crimea and promoting separatism in east. Atreaty was prepared and never signed.
The political balance between pro-Russia and pro-west shifted decisively.
Ukraine feeling threatened asked to integrate Nato, but Nato had no intention to accept and Putin knew it.
Zelenski came to power. The truth is that its popularity crashed and the pro Russia party, led by oligarques friends of Putin gained weight. It was repressed.
That was the last straw for Putin. He denied the legitimacy of the Ukrainian state and attacked.
Tucker carlson interview with putin
"Putin also highlighted that they were promised that NATO would not expand to the East. āNot an inch to the East ā¦ and then what? They said, āWell, itās not enshrined on paper, so weāll expand.'ā
āThere were five waves of expansion. We tolerated all that. We were trying to persuade them. We were saying, āPlease donāt. We are as bourgeois now as you are. We are a market economy, and there is no Communist Party power. Letās negotiateā,ā Putin added.
In a puff of smoke !!! Just happened with a blink of an eye and wave of a wand!!!
"In 2014, an Ukrainian government came to power "
The ukrainian people woke up one morning and there was a new govt !!! It was a magic trick !!!
Sorry . You are too simplistic for me Morgan
This is a forum, not a semester course at a university. Expand on a point if you want. Engage the other people here.
Yes, a generation ago. The US really got involved at a high political level back in 1986. So, you could say it was almost two generations ago. About the same time the immigration system problems we are dealing with today came about. In 1986 Reagan agreed to sign amnesty agreement with the understanding the Democrats would finish the agreed items into law in the next session. The main political item at the time was the tax reform of 1986. The taxes hadnāt been overhauled since 1939. The biggest tax reform in the 20th century. Add to that the Chernobyl disaster. Challenger exploded on the launch pad. We had the Iran arms-contra deals, the bombing of Libya. We were taking on Iraqās biological weapons. Plus, major flooding in parts of the US.
There was a great fear in America that the USSR was not capable of controlling the largest nuclear arsenal in the world. Russia kept the largest number of its nuclear weapons in Ukraine. In December 87ā Reagan and Gorbachev signed the INF Treaty banning types and reducing the number nuclear weapons. Reaganās program was known as the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI). Or as we knew it as the Star Wars program.
What was it in 1992 Russia broke up? In 1994 Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons. The third largest nuclear arsenal in the world. In exchange for the UK, US, and Russia guaranteeing Ukraineās security. That treaty was known as the Budapest Memorandum.
OH really! So, by your thinking no one has to pay for their car or house if they donāt want?
A treaty is a formally signed and ratified agreement between two or more nations or sovereigns; a contract between two or more countries that is adhered to by the nations party to it; an international agreement between two or more states that is governed by international law.
Legal Information Institute
Are you asking for a debate?
Who are the two main players in the war? Russia & USA. Do you agree?
I dont think he agrees with that. The take will be thats its purely ukraine that will be marching into moscow any minute nowš¤£
Is your Russian TV channel working? Of course not. Why did Tucker go to Russia? If you only get half the story and a one sided story at that. Then any data you find will be trash. Did you follow Covid? Are you following the Covid hearing in Congress? The same thing. We have been lied to and the truth was suppressed. This is not a conspiracy theory like our government said the Biden laptop was. Or was it a conspiracy?
In 2014, an Ukrainian government came to power and prepared a treaty with Europe. Putin was so angry that he exercised coercition and the government backed off. That provoked the MaĆÆdan revolution in 2014.
It is just a matter of time before this subject is about me, instead of the subject matter. So on this point I will not make it against me and wikipedia which carries a lot of bias opinions. Let introduce you to Mr. Mearsheimer.
John Mearsheimer
I am the R. Wendell Harrison Distinguished Service Professor in the Political Science Department at the University of Chicago, where I have taught since 1982.
According to the prevailing wisdom in the West, the Ukraine crisis can be blamed almost entirely on Russian aggression. Russian President Vladimir Putin, the argument goes, annexed Crimea out of a long-standing desire to resuscitate the Soviet empire, and he may eventually go after the rest of Ukraine, as well as other countries in eastern Europe. In this view, the ouster of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych in February 2014 merely provided a per-text for Putinās decision to order Russian forces to seize part of Ukraine. But this account is wrong.
Book by John J. Mearsheimer. Why the Ukraine Crisis Is the Westās Fault
Another Journal that has been publishing since 1910 is FOREIGN AFFAIRS, published by Council on Foreign Relations
Thatās what i asked you about. Where is what you said, in the treaty? Your opinion flows from that, or itās just your opinion.
I gave you the address of the treaty. Just click on the blue Memorandum. It will take you to the treaty and break down the treaty for you.
What was it in 1992 Russia broke up? In 1994 Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons. The third largest nuclear arsenal in the world. In exchange for the UK, US, and Russia guaranteeing Ukraineās security. That treaty was known as the Budapest Memorandum.
Are you talking about casualties or treasure? Because Ukraine is the main victim!
They are dying while you conveniently accept the notion that Russia has any claims on territory. The US doesnāt claim any territory but will defend world-order when democracies are threatened with autocracies and dictatorships that hold power higher than life.
OK, letās start with the basics.
Do you agree that Russia and the United States are the two countries fighting this war?
Do you understand what a proxy war is?
Do you agree that the problems started in Donetsk and Luhansk?
And what year would you contribute to the start of the fighting in Donetsk and Luhansk?
Agreed. The USA taxpayer are also a victim. Once Biden pushes this to nuclear there will be many more victims.
No I donāt. The US is not fighting a war at all against any country. Russia is.
In he Middle East the US is not fighting a war. They are defending against terrorists.
Who was the Secretaries of State in 2013 and 2014? Letās go back on a timeline to Conflict in Ukraine.