I think, Israel was re-established after WWII. I don’t think it was a country, per se, until then. Various countries said this land is for the Jews and then serious problems broke out between the Jews and the Palestinians. I’ll have to look it up though.
According to history.com, I sort of have it right, but not quite. Israel didn’t actually disappear off the map, but it was occupied and claimed by others.
Don’t trust so much the Bible. For the more ancient parts, it is totally legendary. About the kingdom of Israël, it is more then possible that the tale exaggerates its size.
Israel tribes were among other and became sedentary, probably in the XII th century B…C, at the time of the invasions of the sea people, or just after.
Israël independence was lost when the Assyrian conquered it. They were followed by the Persians, then by the successor of Alexander the great, then by the Romans.
Israël disappeared after the Jewish revolts of 66-69 and 132-135 A.C.
The second temple was destroyed after the first one. The Jewish people were scattered around the whole known world. There were still Jews in Palestine but no state and no political entities.
And the Jews were not the only inhabitants of the land, Palestinians, called Philistines, sharing it. Lebanon was a Phoenician conglomerate of cities states.
Arabs followed Byzance, then the Crusaders, the Arabs, and the Turks.
And, yes Israel is a colonial fact. It is not a judgement, it is a fact. USA and Russia are colonial states, Australia is also one.
If i use your logic, Italians have historical rights on France and the whole Mediterranean territories, Israel included.
Beyond that, and even if most Jews have a common genetic origin, this one is very diluted. And it has been said that the Jewish people as a nation is an invention of the 19th. A common religion is not enough to make a people.
In fact, the universal European antisemitism was the main factor in the invention of the Jewish people, made it necessary.
Modern Hebrew is a recreation.
I think the conflicts keeps re-occurring in that region is that Israel has many important archaeological and religious sites considered sacred by Jews, Muslims and Christians, If it was just any old peace of land then it wouldn’t be a continuous conflict in that region. The way I see it is that Palestine just won’t let it be and then Israel get all the blame for being over-aggressive etc…
What I mean is if Palestine were peaceful, then Israel would let come for a visit as much as they want. But due to what;s happened, there has to be big protective fortress wall all the way around Israel to stop the terrorists getting in to create havoc.
That’s too simple. The wall also keeps them out of the economy, makes them second class. Israel is much more powerful
Please clarify how it makes them 2nd class? Surely class is only comparable against other classes in your own country. The wall is there to keep them out - nobody can get in.
Also the video you added isn’t available any more:
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The uploader has not made this video available in your country
When you are surrounded by people that have advocated for the extinction of Israel and Jews world wide, I would put a lock on my door.
I am all for open US borders, but I’d rather have them closed to Islamic terrorists.
When everyone is a potential terrorist I’d close my borders to everyone I don’t know.
Israel, being a primarily Jewish state, has been in that position for centuries.
I live in the US and I’m looking at the YouTube video as I type this.
As to the question of how hard to respond to insult, I am in favor of the concept that the price you must pay for causing insult should make it unpractical to commit the insult to begin with.
The laws of self-defense are fundamental to survival.
Israel management of the Palestinians has been told it was an apartheid system.
Incidentally, if people came to your home, expelled you and reduced you repetitively to a life of misery, would you not be angry, even if these people invoke historical rights ?
Who is destroying who ?
[JAI: In commemoration of the Palestinian Naksa - June 5, 1967 - Global Ministries]
Kind of surprised at broad brush strokes here. The wall has been declared illegal by international law. They are occupiers, not settlers. The video starts with a discussion about how far back you go in the past. Go back a week, and each country can claim they are defending themselves. Go back a century and conquerors change ethnicity.
When World War I ended in 1918, the British took control of Palestine. The League of Nations issued a British mandate for Palestine—a document that gave Britain administrative control over the region, and included provisions for establishing a Jewish national homeland in Palestine—which went into effect in 1923.
– from history.com
Like the US, the ones who need a pass to come in are workers, needed for the economy. The ones with the big army call themselves citizens.
It’s hard to find fair and balanced reporting on this
https://stopthewall.org/the-wall/
These bantustans mirror both the structure used by the South African apartheid
…while imposing a different road network for Israelis that Palestinians from the West Bank are not allowed to access
Ok we have gone away from discussing what an individual might do in a one-to-one (or one-to-a few) attack to talking about mass murders and reasons for murders being down to mass occupation of land.
Just a last note from me on Israel-Palestine as I appreciated the extra insights I’ve learned - the latest maps of Israel-Palestine are little shock to me. It might take a few days for me to process that.
Ok so back the original point for this discussion - Would an genuine caring natured atheist be more likely to hurt an attacker compared to a genuine bible-studying church-going Christian. I think the balance would be fair in the argument and in my opinion then both are just as likely to hurt an attacker as one another. It would be a case of measured self-defence as a last resort.
If I were to change the argument slightly to compare a random atheist in the population against a Christian isn’t a genuine believer, then again I would say that they are just as likely as each other to shoot the attacker or hurt the attacker if it came to it. In this case, I think that self-defence might not be as controlled and either one might push it too far.
Please share any any more thoughts on this topic?
The trouble I have with this is two people can study the Bible and reach opposite conclusions. I don’t know enough about this hypothetical bible studier to say.
I think that, in most cases, religion would be a very secondary factor.
Being armed or not is more decisive. Come after, the motive of the attack and the means used, and so on.
And between two believers, there can be a strong difference of approach.
I was thinking of a modern-day Christian who basically indoctrinated with the New Testament - turn the other cheek philosophy. Generally, a genuine Christian would not take the Old Testament that seriously. Of course the Old Testament is about an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. I don’t know of any Christian faiths that take the Old Testament that seriously except maybe extremist ones if they even exist.
Then he would fight to protects innocents from evil. but he would try words first and would hurt people the less he can, as any sensible man.
jewish and christian terrorists ok then? You disgusting islamophobe. You should be called out by everyone for this
10 commandments are in the old testament
Many Christians take the old testament seriously, but in different ways.
One of my nephews is a Jesuit priest and i asked him. He answered me that the church takes the bible seriously. It can be read as a myth, as a story, as a poem, as a set of lessons, as an allegory, or in any way one likes. But one must be very careful before taking it as an historical document.
WOW… and you love Islamist terrorists? You think they have just cause???
What do you know about religious persecution?
Apparently you missed the keywords; “open borders” and “terrorists”, such as Islamist fanatics. Anybody that is crazy enough to commit suicide for purpose of randomly killing innocent bystanders is not welcome in my house.
I am not aware of any Jewish or Christian terrorists trying to destroy this country. As atheist I get along quite well with the Judeo-Christian community
But I am aware of Islamist terrorists actively seeking the death of ALL apostates.
These people scare me… They don’t scare you???
I am not an Islamophobe. It is the fundamentalist Islamists that are the “phobes” of all people except Muslim and even then Muslims sects are at war with each other in the 23rd century of civilization.
Sectarian violence among Muslims is the ongoing conflict between Muslims of different sects, most commonly Shias and Sunnis, although the fighting extends to smaller, more specific branches within these sects, as well as Sufism. It has been documented as having gone on from Islam’s beginnings up until … [See more] Sectarian violence among Muslims - Wikipedia
Iranian woman dies ‘after being beaten by morality police’ over hijab law | Iran | The Guardian
I’d rather not have these people as my neighbors. Do you??
There are though and they are trying to not only make this a Xian nation, but also take away women’s rights and other minority rights. White Supremacists are a form of Xian terrorists, as well as far right Xians, like the two most recent (rammed in by Repugs) appointed people to the supreme court. They are attempting to destroy the U.S. as it stands and make it Xian, forcing their beliefs by law.
Yes I realize that. But in a country of 300 million people and total freedom of expression, it is to be expected that there are some crazies running around.
OTOH, Theocracies are about an institutionalized human control systems.
What countries are ruled by theocracy?
These nations are: