When Left becomes fascism

It’s no secret that I admire Richard Carrier. In his most recent post, he discusses his own politics and applies them to current issues, like cancel culture, Israel/Palestine, and civil rights. In his conclusion, he pretty much states CFI’s mission

How Far Left Is Too Left? • Richard Carrier Blogs

In the conclusion: Reasonable liberalism requires a strong adherence to evidence-based belief and policy, and a genuine commitment to non-coercive methods of getting what you want.

A little before that, he points to the frustrating Left tactic of “crap framing”. It helps to read the whole thing to really understand it, but dang, it’s no wonder I like this guy. Good framing is not that hard to learn, but when I point it out to my Leftist friends, they often mistake my critique for criticism of their stance, not their messaging.

But that bad framing is a problem should not be mistaken, in turn, for endorsing centrism.

He uses the term “rounding error”, something I think I will adopt. It’s that mistake of looking at a few actions by a few people and saying they represent a larger population, “rounding up” to a group, then reacting like the rounded up estimate is in fact truth.

Lots more, it’s long, give it a try.

I don’t know if I agree, especially since the Repugs are in control of congress.

How does that change things?

So, I am a registered Democrat and generally always vote a straight DNC ticket, because there is no other option. The RNC is so far right now that literally every candidate it fields is a threat to democracy, human rights, and even governing. And our system ensures no one else can get elected but whom those two parties field. And I believe in reality, not fantasy—so I have no choice but to take every positive legal action to keep the RNC from power. But…

Fair enough

But do not mistake this for being some kind of centrist or “Libertarian.” I agree with social Libertarianism. There should be no such thing as a vice crime, and a fair amount of human liberty is essential to the pursuit of happiness that should be facilitated rather than undermined by any political system.

But the rest of Libertarianism is uneducated bollocks—most of the time its devotees literally don’t know what they are talking about (which is usually economics, and sometimes sociology, psychology, or political science, but never informed by any of those actual sciences). …

I always like “libertarianism” being picked on, because it is so ultimately self-absorbed and self-serving and irrational. Long live the sad crazy, shell shocked refugee Ayn Rands’ and her nasty ghost.

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Interesting observation about Fascism.

Fact is, my perseverance in adjusting my worldview in response to evidence since at least the early 90s has led to my agreement with the adage that reality strongly leans left (example, example, example, example). Conservatives are more delusional, and their beliefs are more reliant on modern mythologies. Almost (emphasis on almost ) all fake news supports the conservative worldview. Which may be due to . . .
The result is that conservative worldviews tend to accumulate false beliefs while liberal views tend to shed them. …

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The word “fascism” comes from the Roman fasces , the bundle of rods and axes carried before magistrates signifying their right to beat or behead at will. The word has since evolved to reference the corresponding belief that force is an appropriate means of enacting your political will. If you believe this (whether you admit to it or not), you are a fascist .

Fascism tends to come with (and perhaps even arises out of) something more fundamental: an emotivist epistemology, whereby how one feels dictates what actually is.

This is exactly what being lost within the mindscape of our ego driven thoughts is all about. And why recognizing your biological physical evolutionary reality is so key to moving beyond today’s pervasive self-absorbed minds.

But what they have in common that makes them not merely fallibly human but actual extremists is that they allow this to overwhelm their entire epistemology—their “way of knowing,” the method they use to decide what is true or false.

This got me to thinking of stateless and anger winning the battle for one’s heart.

oh dear, I thought I was doing well, but come to realize I’m barely half way through, and the day is crowding in on me.
Carrier is always interesting. I like what he’s writing, it resonates with my feelings and thinking. I’m just baffled at why it doesn’t resonate with more people. I’ll try to get to the last half later on.

It was the Repugs who approved of taking abortion rights away and the Dotard appointed judges approved it. Meanwhile the Dems wanted to keep abortion rights. It is the Repugs who want to take the rights away from everyone and destroy the U.S., as evidenced by Project 2025. The Dems aren’t wanting to do that.

Now the question is, how is it fascism for everyone to have rights and women have dominion over their own bodies, allowing LBGT to be who they are, banning assault weapons, health care for everyone, etc etc.? IMHO, Carrier is missing all of that. His thoughts do not ring a bit of truth to me.

Non sequitur. Typical

When did he say they shouldn’t have this rights?

Nah, it isn’t.

Being too full of oneself is another way of putting it.

You keep trying to ignore, today’s situation is a progression of our very God fearing social nature, back up by a philosophical heritage that’s a direct outgrowth of theology and devotion to the notion of a personal God up there somewhere. Now we replace “God” with various answers to everything concerns and such.

Either way, in the end it’s all about us and everything else out there belongs to something else, resources to exploit for our benefit & enjoyment.

And part of that problem for all your lip service is the inability to face the fact that we are our biological body. That it is our extraordinary biology which produces our introspective consciousness, and it’s our consciousness that produces our Gods, along with all the rest of our understanding.

You call that a Non sequitur, I call it a crucial foundational understanding, worth explicitly recognizing, without which all the rest of It can’t make sense.

Even that article by Carrier, written wonderfully, but it’s simply a flood of words without the reader having some clear understand of one selve and their place in the greater scheme of things. That’s not a non sequitur.

But then, I’ve lived in a reality where awareness of, and caring for, this physical planet is core to my being and day to day. If one only knows city streets and advertising come-ons, guess ego is all one can be aware of.

I’m ignoring you, because you keep saying with no evidence

Oh please!

No evidence that you are you, because you inhabit the body you’re inhabiting?

No evidence that your body/brain creates your thoughts?

No evidences that your bloodline has an active successful heritage of nearly a half billion years worth of parents navigating competitive environment and successfully having children?

No evidence your body has its own interior understanding, duties, priorities independent of the voices unfolding within your head (some call it instinct) - but very attuned to the physical reality we live within?

No evidence that God is purely a product of our thoughts?

No evidence that I ignore the things you say I’m ignoring

No, he’s saying the Dems are fascists, with what you shared above. The Repugs are, IMO, the Fascists. It was the dotard’s appointed judges on the supreme court who said states can take it away if they want. Repug led states, such as MO and TX, had shotgun laws that outlawed abortions. Thus, taking women’s rights away to control their bodies. You don’t see Dems doing or saying that. So, how are Dems Fascists? Personally, it is the Repugs, not the liberal Dems who are fascists. Richard Carrier, IMO, is way off. I don’t even think he is noting that the Dems are trying to get a cease fire. The Repugs want war and since they are in control of congress current, that is problematic because of what they want to take from women, the war in Gaza and Ukraine, etc etc

That is what the blog answers. And it clearly does not say “Democrats are fascists”. He shows how and when extremist actions overlap with fascism. I suppose I could try to summarize this in some way but much of it quite clear.

It’s long, so there were times that I wasn’t sure I was following every word. He’s very accessible if you want to register for free and ask a question. There were a couple points I wanted to review.

No, but you did title this thread “When the Left Becomes Fascist”. The Left is usually considered the Dems.

It is and I don’t have a lot of time read long articles on the web and when I do try, I have a lot distractions, especially with 5 cats.

If you’re just going to critique the title…

How about, “When extreme Left actions (or any intention to express any ideology) by specific individuals in specific circumstances, cross the line into fascism.”

Why don’t we first define the term "fascist ", before we start comparing it to anything.

image

Fascism

Frequently cited as a standard definition by notable scholars,[31] such as Roger Griffin,[32] Randall Schweller,[33] Bo Rothstein,[34] Federico Finchelstein,[35] and Stephen D. Shenfield,[36] is that of historian Stanley G. Payne.[37] His definition of fascism focuses on three concepts:

“Fascist negations” – anti-liberalism, anti-communism, and anti-conservatism.

“Fascist goals” – the creation of a nationalist dictatorship to regulate economic structure and to transform social relations within a modern, self-determined culture, and the expansion of the nation into an empire.

“Fascist style” – a political aesthetic of romantic symbolism, mass mobilization, a positive view of violence, and promotion of masculinity, youth, and charismatic authoritarian leadership.[38]

PLus a host of other definitions.

more… Fascism - Wikipedia

Does any of this sound familiar in the current election discourse? MAGA?

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Also in the blog.

Did anyone read it?

From the responses, perhaps it bears repeating.

I have to agree with write4u on this one. We need to define the term ‘fascist’. Even so, I hardly see how leftist views become fascist, unless we’re talking about PETA. I’m a vegetarian with BIG ISSUES concerning PETA, especially Ingrid Newkirk, who I don’t like almost as much as I don’t like the dotard.

Yes define the term since you agree at most if not all with his blog