I say Jesus was an Atheist. I get no response.Did Jesus believe in god?
Does an atheist believe in god?
@MikeYoke
Mike:
You are making your studies, and your responses here, 100,000,000 times more complex than they need to be.
Imagine if I wanted to learn all I could about electronics. But on Day One, I mixed up AC and DC.
I could then spend hours and weeks and months pouring through articles and books about electricity. But all my knowledge would be wrong if I BEGAN with a basic misunderstanding.
That is what you have done with religion.
Honestly, I don’t care if you spent 3 years on a desert island reading ancient scriptures. It wouldn’t matter, because you BEGAN with a misunderstanding of some BASIC terms.
I understand you like to use your own spellings and definitions. But words mean things. This is to help people communicate.
I could decide that oranges should be canned peas. But that would be a problem at the grocery store.
I won’t debate this with you. I will simply state:
Atheism means lacking a belief in god or gods.
Atheism = NO GOD.
Jesus was NOT an atheist. Not by ANY ACCURATE definition of the term.
You can type and type and type and type all you want. But you are wrong.
Sheesh.
Hey everybody:
I keep saying the moon is made of green cheese
And I get no response
And it is now believed that Jesus was wanting to move Israel in this direction by changing the system back to the time of King David.You were doing pretty good, up to that sentence.
Some days I spent up to twelve hours of studying and researching. Wanting to fully understand. I was taking the text back to the root scripture and writings. After almost four months of work and getting to the fifth page of the bible.I hate to say this, because it gave me a lump in my throat.
It was like hearing a child say, “I really wanted to go to China. So I snuck out, every night, for weeks, digging a hole in my back yard, trying to get there … I tried soooooo hard…”
?
And having found several gods and researching the gods and finding their churches and religions I realized that the bible’s god is really made up of several gods of the time.See, if American schools taught BASIC world religion, you would have learned this in the first 5 minutes of Day One.
Oh, Mike. You have made this SO HARD .
OMG!! I know!! This!! THIS!!
Eleven minutes, and it’s FUN!!
Tee, post #308070
How I see the painting.
A Hellenic legend of taming the Dragon that changed with time and location.
It was Clement that tamed the Dragon Graoully.
Victory over paganism. It could be the Lorraine of eastern France. Because of the Crosses of Lorraine on the churches. Maybe evolved from Jacques de Molay, Master of the Knights Templar.
Point being, to the people of the time. The picture may be about the Christians burning pagans at the stake. Or put another way of the time, being fed to the Dragon. Nobody is safe from the Dragon. Not even the priests.
I don’t think it was so much about hell at the time in the way we think about hell today as eternal after judgement.
It of course evolved into today’s thinking as the Church does not talk about the burnings at the stake.
Thank you, @MikeYohe
You might be interested in this information (you would have had no reason to know it):
Actually, that isn’t a “painting.” It is an icon. Technically, there is a difference.
Icons, in Eastern Orthodox Christianity, are different from regular works of art. They are considered “written,” not painted. And people who make icons are “iconographers,” not artists.
Icons are all similar, whether they are Greek, Roman, Syrian etc etc, in that they are always “flat,” and use very specific symbols or colors.
Iconography is actually a language – a non-written language. But before most people could read, iconography was used to teach religious doctrine.
Unlike with regular art, every detail you see in an icon means something very, very specific. They are “read” in the same way sentences are read.
Here is info on this one (it says there is a video)
I understand you like to use your own spellings and definitions. But words mean things. This is to help people communicate.Jesus was NOT an atheist. Not by ANY ACCURATE definition of the term. You can type and type and type and type all you want. But you are wrong.
I struggle with people who want to create personal definitions, too. ‘Deist’ and ‘atheist’ are well known terms that describe mutually exclusive groups, so why would anyone want to pretend they’re not? It totally screws up all communication.
The concept of an atheist Jesus, the way MikeYoho is spilling tons of ink over, is like saying, “my uncle gave birth to my grandma”. It has no meaning unless the words used are needlessly given new definitions.
“my uncle gave birth to my grandma”Wait a damn minute, Rat.
Are you telling me this isn’t possible? Because that happened in my family. Are you calling me a liar???
There are two different answers which I give to this question. I usually give both.
The first is simple. If you want me to believe in magic then you’re going to have to show me some magic.
The second is equally simple. Barring raising someone I know to be long dead from the grave, I don’t know what would convince me. The Bible tells me that the devil can appear as an angel of light, so if you did show me some magic, thus proving magic is real, how would I know that it’s God’s magic? Fortunately I, being a flawed human, do not need to know what would convince me. The Christian should be ecstatic to learn that I would leave that in God’s hands. God, the all knowing, knows exactly what it would take for me to be convinced and I am perfectly willing to accept the reality that he shows me. I don’t need to know what would convince me because God knows and he’s the only one who needs to know.
@mikeyohe I get the gnostic thing being Greek for knowledge/knowing, as opposed to agnostic- not knowing, but I don’t get how Jesus was an atheist or even scientific about anything. Please cite how what makes you think he based anything on science? I don’t think it was taking the evil spirits out of a human and putting in pigs causing them to jump over a cliff or raising Lazareth or healing the woman who was hemorrhaging, or even that fish and bread thing as scientific. He was most definitely a Jew though. Deists are not atheists either.
The thing is, I have read the Bible from cover to cover, more than once. It was a requirement with my religious family growing up and not only that, I had to memorize text as child. My grandfather was a preacher’s assistant and my great uncle was a FM minister, so reading it was required, as well as memorizing, unfortunately the KJV and NKJV are the worst translations, but often used. Sadly, even Xians take things out of context, but still if one is going to say such things, they need to cite their source- chapter and verse.
@3point14rat“my uncle gave birth to my grandma”Wait a damn minute, Rat.
Are you telling me this isn’t possible? Because that happened in my family. Are you calling me a liar???
Wait! How did you uncle, who should be one of the offspring, give birth to your grandmother? Would that make your uncle actually your great grandfather? Then again, I had a great uncle who was also my third cousin (he was my grandfather’s cousin and the two of them married two sisters from another family)
Be glad you are not ancient Egyptian royalty. Your mom and dad could also be your aunt and uncle. And you don’t even want to consider what the other relationships that your grandfather has with you. And so on.
I ask if anyone even knows the name of Jesus’ Christian religion. I get no response.
TEE,
Likewise, this is stupid. Jesus didn’t start the Christian religion. He died a Jew. Every historian, Christian and non-Christian, knows this.
Tee, I think you are stuck inside of the Christian bubble. Gospels of Thomas, Mary and Philip are examples of Jesus’ Jewish Christian religion. After Jesus died, the Gnostic Gospels were around and were merged with other Jewish teachings to form the main Jewish Christian religion until the fourth century. To debate with you would be like debating about the United States and you claim that Texas never existed.
The sad part is you are on a progressive web site. And progressivism itself came from the ideas of this original Christianity. And American was built upon the ideals of this Gnostic Christianity.
He died a Jew. Is that all you got? Jesus died a Jewish Sadducees and had a Hellenistic Christian denomination branch of the Jewish religion at the time. A view of two different pathways.
Jesus didn’t start the Christian religion. I agree. Christianity was started about sixty years before Jesus. There were many denominations of Christianity. Jesus’ and Mary’s denomination became one of the main denominations of Christianity. After Jesus died, Mary ended up merging their denomination of Knowledge with other denominations. It was known as The Learned. Then three-hundred- and seventy-years latter it was destroyed and wiped off the face of the earth by the Deity Christianity of the Roman government.
Let’s see where you are in two decades. Most likely still talking in circles. To me, this is old stuff. I have moved on to the more fun and cutting-edge parts of the history of religion. This is more like a waste of time if it can not be constructive. You are way off the target on what every historian thinks. In fact, top historians have agreed upon many of these facts for the last couple hundred years. But they don’t talk or write about them publicly because of people like you.
An example, the Catholic Church a few decades back put together a hit squad to end the career of anyone who publicly talked about these items. They did what you are trying to do, by using items in the bible to justify your point of view. What happened was they let the team into parts of the Vatican Library to study that are mostly off limits. Many on the Vatican team turned on the Vatican. The Vatican shut down the team and required all existing and new priests to swear they believed in the resurrection.
3point - I say Jesus was an Atheist. I get no response.
Did Jesus believe in god?
Does an atheist believe in god?
Good question. There are several types of gods and several meaning. Very simple to understand if you start from the beginning.
Did Jesus believe in god? To Jesus that would have been a silly question. Of course, he believed in god.
Was Jesus an atheist? Yes, Jesus was an atheist. He did not believe in deities.
The Pharisee Jews took Jesus to court under Jewish laws for claiming he was a “GOD”. Remember Jesus was a Sadducees Jew. The Sadducees were Hellenistic atheists and ruled Israel under the Roman Governor. But the Pharisees were a bunch of attorney-like priests who controlled the temple. The Sadducees were the more educated and followed science.
Religion for the most part of history has always followed science going all the back into pre-history. In pre-history you had the creators of man. The upper and lower gods. They were not deities. And they were not called “gods”. That is a translation term only. They were the people of “knowledge”. God was a term that meant “knowledge”.
The Hellenistic Age was the age of understanding for Europe. They brought knowledge and wisdom from India and Europeanized it. Jesus was Hellenistic. Israel was Hellenistic but the Greeks lost control to Rome and the old Pharisees beliefs were being pushed by the old ruling families of Israel in hopes of once again being in control of Israel.
The Pharisees were believers in deities. Paul for example was a Pharisee. That’s why when Paul branched off from the main Jewish Christian denomination, he used the deity of the Pharisees in his pathway which was different from the main Sadducees pathway of Jewish Christianity.
Also, the Jewish Sadducees were Hellenistic, which meant that “knowledge” (god) was in all the people. Therefore, the people should be able to govern themselves. The idea which America is based upon. Whereas the Pharisees Jews used a deity to judge the Laws of God. Not the people to judge the Laws of God. They are really the Laws of Knowledge. Moses use mostly older Laws of Knowledge and Laws from Egypt. Ra was the god of Egypt. Ra means “knowledge”. Egypt Rules of Laws were in fact Laws of Knowledge.
This is why Jesus was in Jewish court because he believed god (knowledge) was in all people. A Hellenistic belief that was understood in Israel until the Pharisees were trying to change things. The trial was not about Jesus’ beliefs, it was to show that the Pharisees were becoming a political power to be reckoned with.
As part of this Pharisee reckoning, they were contesting who controlled the knowledge, the people’s Laws of God or the Pharisee’s deity.
Did Jesus believe in god?
God as meaning “knowledge”, yes. God as meaning “deity”, no.
Does an atheist believe in god?
God as meaning “knowledge”, yes. God as meaning “deity”, no.
That said. Just like Santa Claus, atheists try and use the good in Santa Claus. The Laws of God are natural laws that make civilizations happy and feel good if they are used correctly. The better the morals of the people, the better the Laws of God operate and the happier the people are. If the morals are bad the civilization will most likely end or be ruled by other countries. Israel is a good example. Israel was ruled by a deity, and in its history, it was only able to rule itself for a hundred and three years. All the rest of the time it was ruled by other countries. Where Egypt was ruled by knowledge. Egypt was the longest operating civilization known in history. It was when the Egyptian god became deity that Egypt fell apart.
3point – Point being. The people of America better smarten up and get out of the Christian Bubble and learn the true history of mankind to keep the American Dream that was started by the Hellenistic beliefs from falling apart. Understanding Jesus, the man, not Paul’s Jesus. There are two separate pathways of Christianity in our history. The Church tried to destroy the Christian Atheist pathway of knowledge. We must not let that happen. Watch the people in the Christian Bubble here try and destroy the Christian Atheist pathway. And they call themselves atheists. They are just deniers of their deity beliefs.
TEE,
Atheism means lacking a belief in god or gods.
Atheism = NO GOD.
Jesus was NOT an atheist. Not by ANY ACCURATE definition of the term.
All that is logical if you are reading a book that was written today. This is not the case. Your Christianity was formed 400 years ago, based upon teachings that were up to 1,200 earlier. And those teachings were based upon writing that were created 400 years earlier.
I totally agree with you as long as you only talk about god that was written about in the last 600 years. But we would have to exclude your bible because it was written from older writing.
And all of this is totally silly because the bible is not fully translated. If it was, we would not be talking about this. What you must do is ask yourself why the bible is not fully translated. From time to time they change some of the translations. Like Moses having horns growing out of his head. The seas parting. And the latest, Mary the Virgin to Mary the young lady. Hell, they could say “god” now means “dog”. It would not matter. People would still pray to the dog.
So, what would happen if we translated the word light? Like, follow the light. It would be – follow the knowledge. The deity Christians did not like the word “knowledge” because that was the religion of science they were fighting. The Christian religion of science called Knowledge. And in that atheist religion the term “god” meant what it had always meant from before beginning of history, “knowledge”.
Therefore, your twisted beliefs in untranslated words is unscientific.
Atheism = No God should be Atheism = No Deity
Or you could end up in translation problems of Atheism = No knowledge. Which would be false.
If you are going to use older writing.
Jesus was NOT an atheist. Should be Jesus was not a deist.
Deist is just a branch of atheist. And Jesus was a deist, therefore he was an atheist.
Here the problem is that you are in your Christian Bubble. Apples to oranges. I am talking about Jesus the real man in the timeline of the year 30. And in the Jewish Sadducees Hellenistic Christian religion and you are in a different pathway. You are in the Catholic religion that was built upon Paul’s Jewish Pharisees Christianity religion from the year 364.
In your Catholic religion, Jesus was not an Atheist. And Mary is still a Virgin. Jesus did believe in god, and he was a god.
In Jesus’ Jewish Sadducees Hellenistic Christian religion. Jesus was just a man. A teacher of Hellenistic beliefs in the Jewish Hellenistic state of Israel at a time of religious change.
As record by Judas Thomas directly from Jesus in The Gospel of Thomas Collection. … And he said, “Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death.” … Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find.
Point being. Jesus translated saying that came from older India. Not much original about Jesus’ sayings. Jesus’ achievements were the fact that he was a lock to be the ruler of Israel. And what Jesus did in the Jesus Movement. Jesus brought Paul, a Pharisees into his political movement because Paul could talk to the Pharisee towns. Jesus was very limited to what towns and areas he could travel to because Antipas was going to kill Jesus if he could get his hands on him. After Jesus was killed, Paul use the saying of Jesus. And saw Jesus as a great man. But James did not want Paul’s churches mixed with the Jewish Sadducees Christian movement most likely because Paul’s Pharisees Christianity believed in a deity. Why Paul did not understand this is a mystery.
Antipas did kill Jesus’ cousin, John the Baptizer. Antipas had to handle Jesus differently because Jesus’s father was possibility Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera. A roman soldier who got the honorary name of the Roman emperor Tiberius. Thus, he was connected to the highest levels of the Roman Empire and that made Jesus a Roman citizen. Antipas had to treat Roman citizens differently or he could lose his job.
Mike Yohe said,So, what would happen if we translated the word light? Like, follow the light. It would be – follow the knowledge. The deity Christians did not like the word “knowledge” because that was the religion of science they were fighting. The Christian religion of science called Knowledge. And in that atheist religion the term “god” meant what it had always meant from before beginning of history, “knowledge”.
I understand public acceptance of that explanation, but of course it is wholly wrong.
Light itself is NOT knowledge, unless defined as a scientific phenomenon. Light does illuminate when something is “obscured”, but does God need to be illuminated because It is “obscured”?
“Follow the light” is a useless exercise. You’re just gonna walk around the globe following the light of the sun.
Strange that religion suggests “seeking knowledge”, whereas their greatest enemy are those who claim “knowledge”, i.e. the Illuminati.
》In your Catholic religionYour Christianity was formed 400 years ago《
I was never Catholic.
Originally, I was Protestant. But I converted to Eastern Orthodoxy, and we led an Oriental (non-Chalcedonian) congregation.
So if you want to get nit-fuckin’-picky about it, Mike, “my” Christianity was formed 1,600 years ago.
>
》Christianity was started about sixty years before Jesus. 《Okee-dokee.
》You are way off the target on what every historian thinks. In fact, top historians have agreed upon many of these facts for the last couple hundred years.《Name three. And not the three who wrote "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" (and who weren't historians).
》But they don’t talk or write about them publicly...《"Every historian" doesn't talk or write publically about this?
》... because of people like you.《You mean people like non-Chalcedonian Christians?
》Why Paul did not understand this is a mystery.《(I can't believe I'm saying this, as an atheist, but) Yeah, because Mike Yohe understands so much more about Jesus story than Paul, who lived during the Apostolic age....