You cannot agree with Bart Ehrman and the writers of “Holy Blood Holy Grail.”
Choose one.
Also, @MikeYohe
I say Jesus was an Atheist. I get no response.There is no "response" to this because it's stupid. "Atheism" wasn't even a thing at that time. Jesus would have been a Jew. His entire life revolved around it. I thought you said you had read the Bible??
I ask if anyone even knows the name of Jesus’ Christian religion. I get no response.Likewise, this is stupid. Jesus didn't start the Christian religion. He died a Jew. Every historian, Christian and non-Christian, knows this.
What you want is an inside the Christian Bubble debate. I don’t think you are going to get that from Mr. Ehrmann.What is the "Christian Bubble?" Do you even know who Ermann is??
Bart Ehrman studied Biblical theology and Biblical languages at Moody Bible Institute, graduated from Wheaton College in Illinois, earned his PhD and M.Div.,both magna cum laude, from Princeton Theological Seminary, where he studied textual criticism of the Bible, development of the New Testament canon and New Testament apocrypha. He has written or edited 27 books including “The New Testament and Other Early Christian Writings: A Reader,” Oxford University Press.
Tee Bryant said, “Sorry it took me a while to respond. I slapped my forehead so hard when I read your response that I passed out. I just came to.”
That’s funny. It reminded me of an old girlfriend of mine. We were sitting around with friends. She was on a sofa with a coffee table, at knee height in front of her. At one point she was laughing so hard about something, that she doubled over, forward, and made a loud smack of her forehead impacting on the coffee table.
She maintained consciousness however, and it was funnier than whatever she was laughing at to begin with.
Sorry for the slow delays. Really busy and going to be for the rest till the end of next week. Got a lot of people staying at my place right now.
Holly Sxxx. Did I misspell a word?
No. I don’t think so.
As there are no legal standards. There are only acceptable standards.
Which is correct. Wensday or Wednesday? I have never heard anyone say the word Wednesday.
Let me get to the point so you know where I am coming from.
Our government started to move to a phonic alphabet. Some scientific journals and even White House and Congress papers were written in the American Phonic Alphabet.
They were doing this to end illiteracy. The tests had proven that illiteracy would end by going to a phonic alphabet. By second grade the kids were writing full page letters. They could not have spelling bees because if you could spell what you heard. There were no short or long vowels. Because there were no vowels or double consonants. And there was no “q”. Q does not stand alone.
The alphabet teaching was over by sixth grade. By then illiteracy was conquered with a phonic alphabet that had volume and speed also built into the alphabet which made reading and writing much more enjoyable.
So, as you view me as not being able to spell. I view you as inutile spellers who would rather ridicule than be progressive. At some point in time America will get back to and incorporate the American Phonic Alphabet. It was almost used, being promoted by the Republicans. But had the funding cut and killed by the Democrats.
So, being taught on the American system I will from time to time not spell words the way they don’t sound or completely get the word that sounds the same but have different meaning in my posts. Can you can deal with that? I will deal will all your spelling of words that phonetically sounding do not match the spelling. And maybe we can save you from having a bumpy forehead.
Point being. Test results was that one whole year could be removed for a high-school education using a phonic system. Major tax savings and helping the college system and the workforce. Along with the end of illiteracy. The Democrat run areas are having trouble with teaching the children. Humm
Did you modify that twice for spelling to be funny?
A friend of mine on facebook does this with definitions. He says words are defined by usage and he’s using them therefore he’s defining them.
No, I tried to squeeze this in a real hurry and had it on the computer screen. Saw it a couple of times when I went back into the office and did changes. Shouldn’t write when in a hurry or after my tenth cup of coffee. The L A school district has over 200 languages it has to deal with. What a mess. We really need to to have a phonic alphabet to fix these kind of problems.
I thought this was about the Holy Bloody Grail?
Instead, I’m told about the next best thing to spelling properly, making it up as you go along.
It’s so easy to derail Mike, with straightforward questions.
Then again, maybe it’s just snit fest.
@MikeYohe My apologies. You didn’t misspell a word. I looked it up on Amazon. It’s a Christmas story! ???
Anyway, thanks for bringing out my creative side. It’s amazing what I can throw together in 2 minutes in my phone.
I’ll point out to you, because apparently you didn’t know, that in English there are things called “homophones.” For example, it’s possible that you know that “knight” and “night” are two entirely different things. Or “week” and “weak,” or “meet” and “meat.” You may come across such words as you continue into grade school.
But now, I’m worried we will wind up in a long discussion about how “homophones” are unchristian and should not be taught in school.
?
Oh, wait.
Did we get off-track?
I have this funny feeling that my attention has been purposefully averted, so I would forget the person I’m talking to has no clue what he is talking about.
THREE times in 16 minutes.
But we still don’t know where he gets his historical information, other than from the guy who literally wrote ‘Dr Who,’ and why he trusts that source over 747,643 others.
Tea Penny Guy, are you a homophone? What about the IPhone11? The last few IPhones are all pretty much the same (homo means same).
indeed. the lowest form of humor.
Back on the topic of the thread. I haven’t listened to the Everyone’s Agnostic podcast in a while, but I recommend it. The recent episode featured a young pastor who was very serious about God, then started reading. Oops. He gave a sermon about how the use hell in the NT is allegorical and specific to the 1st century. He said hell is used to describe what’s happening on earth, not some possible punishment, and how this relates to what we are learning about evolution and where our feelings about life come from. He was brought in for a meeting a couple weeks later and they laughed and asked what he was thinking when he did that. As he tells the story he also says he thought he was understanding the mission of Jesus and doing what Jesus would want him to.
He’s an atheist now, but was a Methodist then. He thought they were liberal enough to consider his thoughts. Well, some of them are, but most of them aren’t ready for that to be preached to the general congregation, save it for Wednesday night Bible study. I was also a Methodist, but the church I stumbled in to was specifically designed for people like me and this guy. He probably could have done that sermon there. As a member, talking about hell not existing was perfectly fine. I was not laughed out once my questions became more pointed, but there was a certain degree of marginalization. I never pushed those boundaries because there was no point. The things they were doing were good for individuals and for the surrounding community, so why mess with it? It’s as close as I’ve found to a church that’s doing what I think is in line with morals that trace back to the mix of Greek and Eastern cultures from 2,000 years ago. In the end though, it’s not possible to reconcile those morals with any Christian international organization.
He gave a sermon about how the use hell in the NT is allegorical and specific to the 1st century. He said hell is used to describe what’s happening on earth, not some possible punishment
The last 20 years I was Christian, I was Eastern Orthodox…which is, theologically, the oldest extant, continuous form of Christianity.
And yes: Most Orthodox Christians continue to interpret “hell” as in the Early Church — metaphorical, a state of mind, not a punishment after death.
Tragically, Western Christianity, which interpreted it literally, became the dominant form of the religion.
Western Christianity also embraced Original Sin and Substitutionary Atonement, two more of the ugliest doctrines of Christianity that were never adopted by the Eastern church.
I often wonder how different history would have been, had the Eastern church become the dominant form worldwide, and maintained its mysticism.
Had I been able to maintain any belief in God at all, I would have stayed Orthodox. But the damage (from before my conversion to Orthodoxy) had already been done.
Anyhoo: I LOVE podcasts and I LOVE former pastors!! I will listen. Thank you!
And yes: Most Orthodox Christians continue to interpret “hell” as in the Early Church — metaphorical, a state of mind, not a punishment after death.
ROFL! Then you will understand why I call Walmart “Hellmart”. It is, to me, pure hell, especially since I started working there in the last 4 years. Worst job ever and no where near the intelligence of the college degree I have. A chimp could do it, but that’s not why it’s hell. One is underpaid, underwork, made to feel like a slave or a dog or work mule, and that’s just from the co-workers and higher ups, not even mentioning how some customers treat you like people did slaves, guest or owner.
Yes, I have had several jobs that were hell, too! I know the terminology is used in lots of secular ways, like “Let’s go eat at Taco Hell.”
I must have expressed this poorly. Yes, most Orthodox don’t think of hell as a geographical “place” with actual “flames.” But interpreting things metaphorically is not the same as taking them lightly.
Hell is a state of extreme suffering…emotional, psychic, mystical, however you would define it.
There are such significant differences in terminology between Eastern and Western Christianity, I can’t even summarize, except that it wouldn’t be “punishment,” but the symptoms of untreated spiritual illness.
In some ways Eastern Christianity has similarities to Eastern spiritualities (many concepts in Hinduism and Buddhism are metaphorical as well).
Orthodoxy does not have nearly the obsession with hell that some Protestants have. There is no hellfire preaching. But the concepts and images are there. And … it ain’t Walmart.
Hell is a state of extreme suffering…emotional, psychic, mystical, however you would define it.
That it is.
. . . and we find it here on Earth way more than it needs to be.
Tee – post #307791
Still have a lot of people at my place and we are making day trips to different places and sometimes not get back till after midnight. So, I will be a little slow in my response time.
I say Jesus was an Atheist. I get no response. That is a fact. I stand by that statement. I have made it clear that in a debate we must put deism under the category of Atheism. Otherwise we will just go in circles.
There is no “response” to this because it’s stupid. “Atheism” wasn’t even a thing at that time. Jesus would have been a Jew. His entire life revolved around it. I thought you said you had read the Bible??
Jesus was not only a Jew he was a Rabbi. At the time of Jesus, the Jewish Temple was experiencing a religious change. This can be seen by the change in burial methods right next to the Temple. Israel was controlled by Jewish Sadducees who were in a decline. The Jewish Sadducees were Hellenistic. The Hellenistic movement was a Greek movement. The Romans had taken over from the Greeks and Hellenistic movement was also in a decline.
The Hellenistic Age can be divided into three different forms. The Seleucids of Syria & Persia. The Ptolemies of Egypt and the Antigonids of Greece and Macedonia. Israel was using part of the Ptolemies and Antigonids methods due to its makeup and location.
Point being. The Polei were governed democratically by their citizens. And it is now believed that Jesus was wanting to move Israel in this direction by changing the system back to the time of King David. The public understood this was a good time in their history.
Point being. When the Polei citizens got involved in management of government. People started joining all kinds of mystery religions and cults which promised immortality and individual wealth. And it is looking like Jesus did not want this happening to his country.
The Jewish Sadducees were mostly rich and are associated with the ruling classes as aristocrats. Jesus was a Jewish Sadducees. The Jewish Sadducees were Hellenistic. They made huge donations to museums and zoos and they sponsored libraries (the famous libraries at Alexandria and Pergamum, for instance) and universities. The university at Alexandria was home to the mathematicians Euclid, Apollonios and Archimedes, along with the inventors Ktesibios (the water clock) and Heron (the model steam engine).
Point being. The Sadducees were deists (atheists).
I thought you said you had read the Bible??
No, I have not read the bible. The bible was not around at the time of Jesus. I have had to use the bible to get some of Jesus’ teachings. And have had to use the bible a lot because Americans use the religious ideas created by the NT of the bible centuries after Jesus.
Now I did set down to read and understand the bible from cover to cover. I figured it would take me a year or so. Some days I spent up to twelve hours of studying and researching. Wanting to fully understand. I was taking the text back to the root scripture and writings. After almost four months of work and getting to the fifth page of the bible. I really didn’t have any respect for the bible as a book that should be read. Having gathered several cardboard boxes full of books about the bible. The Rabbis in Israel who I talked to about items that I found hard to believe were the greatest help. For example, the writers did not use the term “GOD” a lot when speaking of a god, they used the name of the god. And having found several gods and researching the gods and finding their churches and religions I realized that the bible’s god is really made up of several gods of the time.
From there I reset the project with new parameters and built datum points. Moving forward from pre-history. By the time I got to the bible it was very easy and understand and to work with. What I learned was the bible was not a history book. It was not about God. The bible is here because of civilizations and the rules of laws that are needed for civilizations to be successful.
Jesus’ Christian religion was what we call Gnostic (Knowledge (Atheists)) built on science and was a main religion until Rome made the Deity Christianity the main religion. Jesus being a politician had to promote the other religions of Israel. The idea was not to have a up rising when to took power.