During his time in school, Trump received four student deferments from the draft.
“If I would have gotten a low [draft] number, I would have been drafted. I would have proudly served," he told ABC News. “But I got a number, I think it was 356. That’s right at the very end. And they didn’t get — I don’t believe — past even 300, so I was — I was not chosen because of the fact that I had a very high lottery number."
So that stopped him from enlisting? He wasn’t “chosen”!
There was a boatload of bloviating neo-cons who missed out on enlistment during the draft era, including most of the conservative, flag waving hypocrites like O’Reilly and Limbaugh. Trump can spew his bombast and say what most wingnuts espouse on FB because he has nothing to lose. So he isn’t elected, he still has his money and notoriety and he can parlay it into another reality show and build another tower. I hope he decides to run as an independent, splitting the Reps. Who fear he just may. Can’t wait for the debates, let the clown show begin!
Cap’t Jack
I’m interested in seeing if more wrinkly leftists will start defending baby-killer McCain’s war hero shit, just because they hate Trump.
FWIW, Trump showed intelligence by not enlisting in that completely worthless war.
You are so out of it mid atlantic. The hippies in the 60’s were the last ones to be anti-troop, and most of them learned from that mistake. But you generally treat people as if they are the stereotypes in your head, so I’m not going to try to sort this out for you.
During his time in school, Trump received four student deferments from the draft. “If I would have gotten a low [draft] number, I would have been drafted. I would have proudly served," he told ABC News. “But I got a number, I think it was 356. That’s right at the very end. And they didn’t get — I don’t believe — past even 300, so I was — I was not chosen because of the fact that I had a very high lottery number." So that stopped him from enlisting? He wasn't "chosen"! http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/07/20/what-donald-trump-was-up-to-while-john-mccain-was-suffering-as-a-prisoner-of-war/?tid=pm_national_pop_bIn all fairness Lois most young men weren't enlisting. This was an unpopular undeclared war and lots of young kids were dying over there. Many young men were leaving the country to avoid the draft and many of those that didn't were flocking to college or looking for medical deferments if they could. I was about 4 years shy of being eligible for the draft but even at the age of 14 a lot of my friends were already worrying about it. Its fair to fault Trump for a lot of things and perfectly fair to fault him for criticizing McCain since he himself never served, but I don't think its fair to fault him for not enlisting to fight in a war few of us wanted. This wasn't like fighting the Nazi's or fighting to protect our home.
So that stopped him from enlisting? He wasn't "chosen"!What stopped him was that he was able to legally "dodge" the draft. Simple. Cowardly, but simple.
So that stopped him from enlisting? He wasn't "chosen"!What stopped him was that he was able to legally "dodge" the draft. Simple. Cowardly, but simple. Given the choice of going to college or facing death in the jungles of Vietnam what would you have done? We need to be careful about judging others too quickly. This was an 18 year old kid not a 60 something man.
So that stopped him from enlisting? He wasn't "chosen"!What stopped him was that he was able to legally "dodge" the draft. Simple. Cowardly, but simple. Given the choice of going to college or facing death in the jungles of Vietnam what would you have done? We need to be careful about judging others too quickly. This was an 18 year old kid not a 60 something man. I know what I would have done. If drafted, I would have served. Yes, we can judge quickly when the issue is a known one. Trump did what many wealthy families have done, they use money to cushion from the obligations and service that less affluent citizens have to face. Also, age is not relevant, though the years of his deferments were from 1964 -1968. (aged 18 -22) Trump was an athletic military academy student. Then in '64 the US increases military action, and Trump get's deferments. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/photos-show-trump-military-garb-dodging-draft-article-1.2298248
During his time in school, Trump received four student deferments from the draft. “If I would have gotten a low [draft] number, I would have been drafted. I would have proudly served," he told ABC News. “But I got a number, I think it was 356. That’s right at the very end. And they didn’t get — I don’t believe — past even 300, so I was — I was not chosen because of the fact that I had a very high lottery number." So that stopped him from enlisting? He wasn't "chosen"! http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/07/20/what-donald-trump-was-up-to-while-john-mccain-was-suffering-as-a-prisoner-of-war/?tid=pm_national_pop_bIn all fairness Lois most young men weren't enlisting. This was an unpopular undeclared war and lots of young kids were dying over there. Many young men were leaving the country to avoid the draft and many of those that didn't were flocking to college or looking for medical deferments if they could. I was about 4 years shy of being eligible for the draft but even at the age of 14 a lot of my friends were already worrying about it. Its fair to fault Trump for a lot of things and perfectly fair to fault him for criticizing McCain since he himself never served, but I don't think its fair to fault him for not enlisting to fight in a war few of us wanted. This wasn't like fighting the Nazi's or fighting to protect our home. I got a high draft number, back then, and was extraordinarily relieved. I was a good Southern Baptist at the time, but my own religious interpretation, lead me to think that it would be wrong to go kill foreigners for no clearly good reason. Also, with the way the war was going, and my vague self-awareness suggesting that I would be compelled to try to be a hero in war situations, I was convinced that I would not survive Viet Nam. I never seriously considered going to Canada, but might have, if my pastor had answered my questions, about this internal conflict, differently. But the pastor showed me the scripture "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and unto God what is God." This meant that I was to follow my government's call to war. I am still convinced of the high probability that a low draft number would have lead to my demise, as it did for so many other vital young men, for no good reason.
So that stopped him from enlisting? He wasn't "chosen"!What stopped him was that he was able to legally "dodge" the draft. Simple. Cowardly, but simple. Given the choice of going to college or facing death in the jungles of Vietnam what would you have done? We need to be careful about judging others too quickly. This was an 18 year old kid not a 60 something man. I know what I would have done. If drafted, I would have served. Yes, we can judge quickly when the issue is a known one. Trump did what many wealthy families have done, they use money to cushion from the obligations and service that less affluent citizens have to face. Also, age is not relevant, though the years of his deferments were from 1964 -1968. (aged 18 -22) Trump was an athletic military academy student. Then in '64 the US increases military action, and Trump get's deferments. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/photos-show-trump-military-garb-dodging-draft-article-1.2298248 But he wasn't drafted and lots of perfectly middle class kids went off to college to avoid the war. It wasn't something that only wealthy kids did. This wasn't WW1 or WW2. This was a war of very questionable legality and merit. I am no fan of Trump but I question anyone who says that they honestly know what they would have done had they been in that situation. Take this a step further. If your son or daughter were facing the same choice and he or she could go to college and get a deferment what would you advise them to do? The fact is that without actually facing that decision for real you can't know and you don't know which is why we should all be careful of judging others for doing something we might just have easily done ourselves, no matter what else you may think of them.
As I said above, if drafted, I would definitely have served, even though I had the sincere belief (feeling?) that I would die in Viet Nam.
In retrospect, I think that this would have been the wrong decision for me for that time. I now think that my best decision, if drafted, would have been to escape to Canada. But as, luck would have it, I never had to make the decision, either way.
It is enough, I think, to condemn Trump for his disrespectful inferences about those who did serve, especially his comment about not liking POW’s. Back in the day, many young people wore bracelets with the names of POW’s and MIA’s, honoring them and hoping for their return.
But he wasn't drafted and lots of perfectly middle class kids went off to college to avoid the war. It wasn't something that only wealthy kids did. This wasn't WW1 or WW2. This was a war of very questionable legality and merit. I am no fan of Trump but I question anyone who says that they honestly know what they would have done had they been in that situation. Take this a step further. If your son or daughter were facing the same choice and he or she could go to college and get a deferment what would you advise them to do? The fact is that without actually facing that decision for real you can't know and you don't which is why we should all be careful of judging others for doing something we might just have easily done, no matter what else you may think of them.He wasn't drafted due to deliberate deferments. People with higher draft numbers got called up. Yes, some middle-class families also used various methods to avoid the draft, and avoid obligations. But, adding that more people did it, doesn't make it correct. I don't question people who know what they would do in a given situation. Why would I? People know better about themselves than I do. (Also, weren't you the person saying, "don't judge too quickly?) Both my sons are currently registered for the selective service, and I've had the conversation with them about the draft. Both would serve if called up. My father was drafted while in college, and he went. Several uncles also. It's an issue of serving one's country. If you're willing to concede that others may decide differently than you, then it follows that others could also be sure of their actions, even if you're not.
Viet Nam was a really really bad war. I honor all Americans who served, there. But I hold no dishonor for anyone who successfully avoided it (except maybe George W. Bush, but that’s just because he substantially repeated the fiasco of Viet Nam by his Iraq incursion.)
If you're willing to concede that others may decide differently than you, then it follows that others could also be sure of their actions, even if you're not.It does not follow. The first statement is a statement of fact. People do make different decisions given the same circumstances. The second statement is merely an opinion. You claim that you know exactly what you would do in a given situation. You may be correct but no one really knows how they would react in every situation especially when the stakes are so high. A lot of people think they know what they would do but thinking and doing are not the same thing. Your sons are registered for the selective service because they are required to by law just as my son is. That doesn't mean I would suport the government or a draft regardless of the circumstances. If Trump were to become president and decided on a whim to invade Mexico just to stop all those rapists from crossing the border would you tell your sons to head down to the draft board if they were called up? I don't think I would, but I wouldn't know for sure until it actually happened. My point about middle class people avoiding the draft wasn't to suggest that doing something is less wrong because more people are doing it. I was responding to your implication that only wealthy people were avoiding the draft this way which wasn't true
I'm interested in seeing if more wrinkly leftists will start defending baby-killer McCain's war hero shit, just because they hate Trump. FWIW, Trump showed intelligence by not enlisting in that completely worthless war.He ahowed no intelligence at all. That's not why he didn't enlist. He didn't enlist because he was a coward and thought he was above going to war. As far as I know he never protested the war--he only protested being drafted. He was nothing but a chicken hawk just like a lot of Republican politicians who didn't mind sending kids to war but would never go themselves--and they did plenty Of intervening to keep their own kids out of it. I was against the war and was in favor of protests, but I can still admire McCain for being true to his ideals even if they weren't mine. He thought the war was right and he signed up for it. At least he wasn't a hypocrite; Trump was--and is. Lois
I am no fan of Trump but I question anyone who says that they honestly know what they would have done had they been in that situation.I would have gone to Canada before serving in that war. We has no business being there and the South Vietnamese did not want us there. The war was pointless. My objection to what Trump said is him saying McCain was only a hero because he was captured (obvious) and Trump prefers people who weren't captured. It was a flippant comment that shows he does not have the filters necessary to international diplomacy. I do note the hypocrisy the Republicans are showing in this case after the way they denigrated several Democratic war veterans in the last few elections. They have no shame. The clown show continues.
During his time in school, Trump received four student deferments from the draft. “If I would have gotten a low [draft] number, I would have been drafted. I would have proudly served," he told ABC News. “But I got a number, I think it was 356. That’s right at the very end. And they didn’t get — I don’t believe — past even 300, so I was — I was not chosen because of the fact that I had a very high lottery number." So that stopped him from enlisting? He wasn't "chosen"! http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/07/20/what-donald-trump-was-up-to-while-john-mccain-was-suffering-as-a-prisoner-of-war/?tid=pm_national_pop_bIn all fairness Lois most young men weren't enlisting. This was an unpopular undeclared war and lots of young kids were dying over there. Many young men were leaving the country to avoid the draft and many of those that didn't were flocking to college or looking for medical deferments if they could. I was about 4 years shy of being eligible for the draft but even at the age of 14 a lot of my friends were already worrying about it. Its fair to fault Trump for a lot of things and perfectly fair to fault him for criticizing McCain since he himself never served, but I don't think its fair to fault him for not enlisting to fight in a war few of us wanted. This wasn't like fighting the Nazi's or fighting to protect our home. Trump was not against the war. He never publicly protested it. He didn't make a stand against the war by not enlisting. He protested abouut putting his own ass in danger, that's all. He was not a war protester, he was a coward. I'm surprised you can't see the difference. He was and is an insult to the protesters just as he was and is an insult to those who willingly joined because they thought it was the right thing to do. I can admire someone who has the courage to stand up for his principles, even if I disagree with the wisdom of those principles. Lois
I am no fan of Trump but I question anyone who says that they honestly know what they would have done had they been in that situation.I would have gone to Canada before serving in that war. We has no business being there and the South Vietnamese did not want us there. The war was pointless. My objection to what Trump said is him saying McCain was only a hero because he was captured (obvious) and Trump prefers people who weren't captured. It was a flippant comment that shows he does not have the filters necessary to international diplomacy. I do note the hypocrisy the Republicans are showing in this case after the way they denigrated several Democratic war veterans in the last few elections. They have no shame. The clown show continues. Agreed 100%
Trump was not against the war. He never publicly protested it. He didn't make a stand against the war by not enlisting. He protested about putting his own ass in danger, that's all. He was not a war protester, he was a coward. I'm surprised you can't see the difference. He was and is an insult to the protesters just as he was and is an insult to those who willingly joined because they thought it was the right thing to do. I can admire someone who has the courage to stand up for his principles, even if I disagree with the wisdom of those principles. LoisLois, I am not defending Trump so much as I am defending a huge segment of our youth who did whatever they had to to avoid going to war. I don't know what Trumps motives were and I suspect as you do that they were self serving but then again so were the motives of many of the protestors. My point really is that its not exactly fair to judge a 69 year old man based on the actions of an 18 year old kid especially when a lot of his fellow 18 year olds were doing exactly the same thing. The prospect of facing death in a foreign jungle is scary enough for a 40 year old. Its terrifying for an 18 year old. I find it very difficult to pass judgement on any of those kids especially when the cause was such a bad one. There are plenty of things to pick on Trump for and its incredibly hypocritical of him to criticize McCain. He deserves all the heat he gets for that stupid comment, but to tear him down just for not serving is something I can't do because I probably would have advised any kid in the same situation to do exactly what Trump did. What would you have told your son to do?
When John Kerry, who volunteered and served honorably in Viet Nam, was running for President, his service there was maligned, ridiculed, and belittled, not just in one off hand remark by a single candidate, but in an on-going, well organized and financed campaign by Republicans. It was a hallmark of the Republican Convention, that year, to mock Kerry’s 3 purple hearts, because he was not, for their tastes, injured severely enough to deserve them. (BTW, Kerry also received a silver star from his Viet Nam service.)
(Kerry’s opponent for POTUS was George W. Bush. George W. avoided going to Viet Nam by virtue of having family connections that got him easy state side service.)
The on-going derision of Kerry’s Viet Nam service came to be known as “swift-boating”. There was no comparably well organized attack on George W.'s avoidance of serving in Viet Nam. (There was an attempt to show that George W. didn’t even perform his state side service, but that was never, effectively, proven.)
Now here’s the kicker: Jeb Bush, yes the current Presidential candidate, was a governor, back then. He wrote a thank you letter to the people behind the organized swift-boat attacks, thanking and commending them. Today, Jeb in his holier-than-Trump condemnation of Donald, for a single insult about McCain’s service, does not want to talk about his personal support of the on-going campaign of derision of John Kerry’s service.