What Trump was doing while McCain was not being a war hero

I do so hate chicken hawks, i.e., those who so vigorously war monger and who are so glibly eager to send American soldiers to war at the drop of a hat, but who have never performed military service themselves. McCain is, IMO, deranged, in his constant ever-readiness and eagerness to put troops in harm’s way, but he is not a chicken-hawk, because he honorably served and sacrificed as a soldier, himself.

I was a college student then and an anti war activist. We were all threatened with the draft and many of my friends were either drafted or joined to avoid frontline service (most of them including my brother ended up in support and supply units). When they ended the deferments and put us all into the lottery system I was called up for the exam. I went and several of my class who were drafted refused to take the oath and were hauled off on the spot. Others left for Canada or decided to stay and fight against the War. I stayed, signed a statement identifying us, including a couple of Black Panthers, as potential subversives. That same year the lottery only went to 94 and my number was 157. We were placed in the 1H reserve pool. Then the war wound down and the troops came home. I lost two good friends there, one was a helicopter rescue pilot. I was 21. I was a socialist fighting an unjust war for so many reasons. I never blamed those who voluntarily served; they got the short end of the stick. CCR’s “Fortunate Son” says it best. Our generation had to make some hard choices.
Cap’t Jack

I'm interested in seeing if more wrinkly leftists will start defending baby-killer McCain's war hero shit, just because they hate Trump. FWIW, Trump showed intelligence by not enlisting in that completely worthless war.
He ahowed no intelligence at all. That's not why he didn't enlist. He didn't enlist because he was a coward and thought he was above going to war. As far as I know he never protested the war--he only protested being drafted. He was nothing but a chicken hawk just like a lot of Republican politicians who didn't mind sending kids to war but would never go themselves--and they did plenty Of intervening to keep their own kids out of it. I was against the war and was in favor of protests, but I can still admire McCain for being true to his ideals even if they weren't mine. He thought the war was right and he signed up for it. At least he wasn't a hypocrite; Trump was--and is. LoisIf you've got proof that Trump is a chickenhawk, lets fuc*ing see it. The fact that he didn't protest the war doesn't mean he was for it - that's leftist bullshit.
If you're willing to concede that others may decide differently than you, then it follows that others could also be sure of their actions, even if you're not.
It does not follow. The first statement is a statement of fact. People do make different decisions given the same circumstances. The second statement is merely an opinion. You claim that you know exactly what you would do in a given situation. You may be correct but no one really knows how they would react in every situation especially when the stakes are so high. A lot of people think they know what they would do but thinking and doing are not the same thing. Your sons are registered for the selective service because they are required to by law just as my son is. That doesn't mean I would suport the government or a draft regardless of the circumstances. If Trump were to become president and decided on a whim to invade Mexico just to stop all those rapists from crossing the border would you tell your sons to head down to the draft board if they were called up? I don't think I would, but I wouldn't know for sure until it actually happened. My point about middle class people avoiding the draft wasn't to suggest that doing something is less wrong because more people are doing it. I was responding to your implication that only wealthy people were avoiding the draft this way which wasn't true Well, Macgyver, we disagree. I think I know exactly how I would respond in a given situation. You say you don't. That's fine. We're each different people. None of which has any bearing on my judging Trump, other than I can, and did. You don't like it, that's your prerogative. I never said that, "only" wealthy families avoided the draft. I said: "Trump did what many wealthy families have done, they use money to cushion from the obligations and service that less affluent citizens have to face." The fact that both wealthy and middle class families, used their affluence to dodge the draft, makes it even worse, as the burden falls to low-income young men. I think Trump was self-serving and a coward. His comment's about McCain show disrespect for veterans and POW's. I doubt he has a snowball's chance in hell of getting a party nomination now. Which is good.

Meanwhile, Donald Trump gave out Lindsay Graham’s cell phone number yesterday. Good news though, Berkeley Breathed brought back Bloom County.

Meanwhile, Donald Trump gave out Lindsay Graham's cell phone number yesterday. Good news though, Berkeley Breathed brought back Bloom County.
Ok, forget Trump, he's yesterday's news. Bloom County is back?! hahaha Thanks for that update Darron. Smiling here in real life.
...I think Trump was self-serving and a coward. His comment's about McCain show disrespect for veterans and POW's. I doubt he has a snowball's chance in hell of getting a party nomination now. Which is good.
Obviously Trump was and is self-serving. Obviously he frequently makes disrespectful statements towards individuals and groups. Obviously the powers that be in the Republican Party will do whatever they can (without losing too much of their base) to prevent him from getting the party nomination, should he continue to steamroll. But IMO his avoidance of serving in Viet Nam, of itself, is not evidence of cowardice. Not everyone who avoids military service in war time is a coward. There are plenty of negative things one could accurately say to malign Trump's character. e.g., You could say that he is a Raw Id, a narcissistic blowhard, and someone who perseveringly contradicts his own statements. No need to stretch and accuse him of cowardice, when that is not obvious. In fact, he seems unusually fearless to me.
I'm interested in seeing if more wrinkly leftists will start defending baby-killer McCain's war hero shit, just because they hate Trump. FWIW, Trump showed intelligence by not enlisting in that completely worthless war.
From what I know of McCain he was neither a hero nor a baby killer. He was a below average pilot who got shot down very early on. He did nothing heroic and nothing horrible. He did survive horrible torture and imprisonment, and that definitely IS something. But that alone does not make him a hero, just a tough guy, like thousands of others whose names have been forgotten.
From what I know of McCain he was neither a hero nor a baby killer. He was a below average pilot who got shot down very early on. He did nothing heroic and nothing horrible. He did survive horrible torture and imprisonment, and that definitely IS something. But that alone does not make him a hero, just a tough guy, like thousands of others whose names have been forgotten.
I think anyone who puts themselves in danger for what they believe is the greater good is by definition a hero regardless of whether they were good or what the outcome was. To often we label people as heros based on the outcome rather than the heart that went into the effort.

No doubt McCain’s survival of the atrocities he suffered as a POW, qualify him as a war hero. IMO, he is no hero in regards to what he could have but hasn’t done for veterans. He has always seemed much much more interested in putting troops in harm’s way, than in taking care of those troops who return. Thank goodness he never became Commander in Chief.

I'm interested in seeing if more wrinkly leftists will start defending baby-killer McCain's war hero shit, just because they hate Trump. FWIW, Trump showed intelligence by not enlisting in that completely worthless war.
From what I know of McCain he was neither a hero nor a baby killer. He was a below average pilot who got shot down very early on. He did nothing heroic and nothing horrible. He did survive horrible torture and imprisonment, and that definitely IS something. But that alone does not make him a hero, just a tough guy, like thousands of others whose names have been forgotten.Well said. Although he probably killed a few babies, lol.
I do so hate chicken hawks, i.e., those who so vigorously war monger and who are so glibly eager to send American soldiers to war at the drop of a hat, but who have never performed military service themselves. McCain is, IMO, deranged, in his constant ever-readiness and eagerness to put troops in harm's way, but he is not a chicken-hawk, because he honorably served and sacrificed as a soldier, himself.
That was my point. It's the hypocrisy I was pointing to, not anyone's choices in joining the military or dodging the draft. Lois

I also see no clear evidence that Trump is a chicken hawk. In his ego driven fantasy, his stance about war seems to be that he will build a military that is so formidable that all our enemies will feel compelled to capitulate without us firing a shot. A chicken hawk would want us to actually inflict death and destruction in order to impose our will on our enemies.

I also see no clear evidence that Trump is a chicken hawk. In his ego driven fantasy, his stance about war seems to be that he will build a military that is so formidable that all our enemies will feel compelled to capitulate without us firing a shot. A chicken hawk would want us to actually inflict death and destruction in order to impose our will on our enemies.
Getting to the point of being seen as having the most formidable military would require engaging in regular demonstrations of death and destruction. Nobody is going to take our word for it. Nobody is going to roll over and play dead. In this day and age where many countries have weapons of mass destruction, the US will be unlikely to have the reputation of being the most formidable in the world. There is more competition for being the most formidable than there ever was before. A lot of death and destruction would happen on the way to the top and it could well be another country that gets there before us. The ones with the most weapons and manpower and the least compunctions about causing mayhem and killing people will win. There is no reason to think it can only be the US. Lois
I also see no clear evidence that Trump is a chicken hawk. In his ego driven fantasy, his stance about war seems to be that he will build a military that is so formidable that all our enemies will feel compelled to capitulate without us firing a shot. A chicken hawk would want us to actually inflict death and destruction in order to impose our will on our enemies.
Getting to the point of being seen as having the most formidable military would require engaging in regular demonstrations of death and destruction. Nobody is going to take our word for it. Nobody is going to roll over and play dead. In this day and age where many countries have weapons of mass destruction, the US will be unlikely to have the reputation of being the most formidable in the world. There is more competition for being the most formidable than there ever was before. A lot of death and destruction would happen on the way to the top and it could well be another country that gets there before us. The ones with the most weapons and manpower and the least compunctions about causing mayhem and killing people will win. There is no reason to think it can only be the US. Lois Yes. Trump is spouting simplistic fantastical nonsense about his own, (self-purported) tough, superlative abilities to easily solve our nation's difficulties -- the kind of things his constituents are almost as eager to hear as he is.

Ah, finally found my way back to this forum.
I’d be curious what the commenters think of Trump now, as opposed to when this thread started.

I also see no clear evidence that Trump is a chicken hawk. In his ego driven fantasy, his stance about war seems to be that he will build a military that is so formidable that all our enemies will feel compelled to capitulate without us firing a shot. A chicken hawk would want us to actually inflict death and destruction in order to impose our will on our enemies.
Actually, a chicken hawk is someone who is in favor of and advances military power and war but who never joined the military. By that definition, Trump is a chicken hawk, as are far too many people in our government and in the media. This website provides an interesting list of chicken hawks in our midst (a matter of opinion, of course). www.nhgazette.com/chickenhawks/
Ah, finally found my way back to this forum. I'd be curious what the commenters think of Trump now, as opposed to when this thread started.
I like the gentleman even more now.
I also see no clear evidence that Trump is a chicken hawk. In his ego driven fantasy, his stance about war seems to be that he will build a military that is so formidable that all our enemies will feel compelled to capitulate without us firing a shot. A chicken hawk would want us to actually inflict death and destruction in order to impose our will on our enemies.
Actually, a chicken hawk is someone who is in favor of and advances military power and war but who never joined the military. By that definition, Trump is a chicken hawk, as are far too many people in our government and in the media. This website provides an interesting list of chicken hawks in our midst (a matter of opinion, of course). www.nhgazette.com/chickenhawks/Your comments about Mr. Donald Trump being a chickenhawk are also a matter of opinion, since you can't back it up.
Ah, finally found my way back to this forum. I'd be curious what the commenters think of Trump now, as opposed to when this thread started.
I like the gentleman even more now. Ah, and this is why the GOP is in trouble. *laughing out loud here*