What if you wake up from hypnosis. Theoretically, lets pressume that you do.
You would not have known you have been hypnotized. Now imagine, you are waking up from being hypnotized, and do not believe that being hypnotized can happen. (Stay with me, I know where you think I am going but I stay with me)
What if we live in a society where every time someone has an creative, or curious idea, when they test it and they fail, they are riddiculed instead of told the truth. Would that turn people of inquiry and test and creativity? IF from childhood, they were mocked for failing.
What if we live in a society where we are told what to eat, what to wear, what our opinions are, what we like and how we are as a person.
What if we live in a society where fear and hatred are nurtured in good people, not because of malice but because of greed.
What if we live in a society where a few truly, decide the faith of the rest of the world and everything in it.
What if we live in a society, the smartest in the history of humanity, with the most advanced technology, the pople no longer knows how to find knowledge.
What if we live in a society where good or bad do not exist based on who you are, but rather based on statistics and luck.
What if that society that I am talking about, is not an exagerration. What if it is the very real world we live in today. What if everything in public media, is a subterfudge from keeping the public from caring, while scaring them into questioning it.
The world is shit. The people in it are shit. Or are they? Have they been trained to act like this, just so they are distracted from what really is going on?
I don’t know anymore. I don’t know. I was never taught how to know, or how to even get the tools to find out.
Help.
Humans, are creatures that are easily baited into a quick reward. And that for me, seems very basic for all creatures. They all go for the easiest way to get to the top of the food chain.
When you are asked an opinion, you are always expected to know the answer right off the bat. When asked, a question, if you do not immediatly know the answer, you a stamped as stupid, if you say you do not know, you are stamped as stupid. But that is not how opinions should be formed. Why are we asked to? Why are we stamped as stupid if we do not?
An opinion should be based on research, not others opinion, yet we are rewarded for just answering quick.
And you might have done it to small things, like… What is your favorite band. Maybe you knew the first time you were answered, but most llikely you did not. Maybe you tried saying a few times, that you did not, but again, you were dismissed as stupid. Non opinionated. Less than an individual kinda signal.
You are asked, again and again. And finally you just pick one you like, and answer that. It might be good. It might even BE your favorite. But did you, really make that descision on your own? Or are you just answering to satisfy the inquiry, in fear of being called ignorant? Why is people so afraid, to not know. Is not knowing, not what drives the passion, to know?
If this happens, from we are kid, are we not more prone to get the reward quick? Quick answer, we dont need to think about it, it SOUNDS plausable, and the scource would not lie because THEY sound important and must have done the research. Yes I trust them, stop being so paranoid.
HOW do I KNOW where to get knowledge, when we are never taught to identify real knowledge, or where to find it, or even where to find out how to find it. Because we are told that everyone is right, and nobody is ever wrong unless they are stupid.
I don’t know you Ikiriz, but I’ve seen people “waking up” like this about a thousand times in my life. My first personal experience of it was a reading a history book in my elementary school library, instead of the history text book they taught from. I didn’t know how to handle it at the time, but I didn’t go running out in the streets screaming “Soylent Green is people”. (Hopefully you get my movie reference).
The difference today is, we have blogs. People can sit in their mother’s basement and “scream” about discovering the “real” world. Plato immortalized it with his “allegory of the cave”. Thing is, they could teach that philosophy at the beginning of the year in every grade until you graduate, and people still wouldn’t get it. The world would not change. People pay ridiculous money for bottles of water and argue about who’s tastes better.
Anyway, I’m curious how you came to this moment and what motivated you to post about it.
I am terrified of the people that have been trained from childhood to be angry, lash out, and punish me, for being me.
I want to know, but I cannot. I cannot sit in class, being tortured with my fears of these people. They torment me. No I am not being bullied, but the system does not work for me. I want an easy access to this myself, I WANT to learn. I don’t need to sit in a classroom to do that. Yes some might find it easier, but I do not. I want to know, where I can learn these things, without having to rely on a failing school system, that forces us to socialize with people, that have been conditioned to see enemies everywhere.
Please help me. Please… Help
I don't know you Ikiriz, but I've seen people "waking up" like this about a thousand times in my life. My first personal experience of it was a reading a history book in my elementary school library, instead of the history text book they taught from. I didn't know how to handle it at the time, but I didn't go running out in the streets screaming "Soylent Green is people". (Hopefully you get my movie reference). The difference today is, we have blogs. People can sit in their mother's basement and "scream" about discovering the "real" world. Plato immortalized it with his "allegory of the cave". Thing is, they could teach that philosophy at the beginning of the year in every grade until you graduate, and people still wouldn't get it. The world would not change. People pay ridiculous money for bottles of water and argue about who's tastes better. Anyway, I'm curious how you came to this moment and what motivated you to post about it.I want to talk about it, I really do. But I don't know how to present it. I admit, I don't know. Do I think that the state is monitoring me personally? No. Do I think they listen in to my conversations? No.. I don't think they need to with the conditioning that I believe, the media is creating. It's a self-sufficient system. I know, believe me I KNOW I sound crazy. But even if I am completely crazy then I am in a system who failed me. It might be the truth, but I wish I knew for sure. I was smart as a kid.. Brilliant. My father wanted me to join this Kid mensa he always talked aabout, he constantly shapened my mind. When I was in 7th grade, the teachers always praised me for my intelligence. But I knew I was not happy. I have lived with depression for so long, but I dont even know anymore if that is the truth. Is it being depressed if you live in the society I proposed? I have become far less depressed, but far more aware.. Of how crazy I sound. Even if I sound crazy, I still want to talk about it. Be disproven.. I know it is not the burden of disbeliever to prove it does not exist lilke that.. Which is why, I want to know. I want to find out. I wish I could.. Explain it better. This is a new idea of mine, and I am not sure yet how to gather the data. Which is why I am only posting under philosophy, I do not want to make assumptions. But Richard Dawkins is the only person that I truly trust to have integrity, but that I still know of. I went to his foundation, send me here and there was a forum. It might not be much, but at least, I can have people who are more likely to critically think about it, propose problems with my idea, and help me figure this out in a rational way. And there is so much I want to propose, that points to my idea, but I feel the fear of being riddiculed, again, if I am wrong, and I don't want to propose it as facts, because it is not, I have not even gotten any hard evidence for it, just very coincedental things and speculations. But I want it to be more than that, to figure out if its wrong, or right I just want to learn.
I will try, as the first point towards this, to explian it as best as I can, founded on my observations about living on the bottom of a society that is idiolizing America, in europe.
I want time to do this. I want to put it down as well as I can, so I can give you the broadest perspective possible of how I came to the conclusion. But that is what it is. And as I said, I am not really that great at figuring out how to get real solid knowledge anymore, so I might base it on false assumptions that are ingrained it me, but please, another perspective would be appreciated.
Okay, chill. This forum is not a place to get therapy, although it can be an outlet. If you are somewhere that has public education, there is most likely publicly available help for mental health to. Seek that out. We get some people here who pretend to have psychological problems but really don’t, so don’t be surprised if I or anyone else doesn’t believe everything you say.
That said, the first thing you need to educate yourself about is, you are much better off that most people alive, and almost everyone who has ever lived. Here’s a guy who was literally kidnapped as a child from his native home in Africa and forced to attend Catholic school. This was perfectly legal at the time, the French occupied his country. So, yes, everything you say is true. It’s also true that that there millions of people who know about this type of abuse and are working to fight it. Some of them wore white at last night’s Presidential address to the congress. ]
Ah… Yes. I have been in therapy since I was 12, I am not denying that. I have reached for help, soo many places. True, I might be just getting worse, getting paranoid. But paranoia is not always bad, as long as we are still rooted in reality. Which I think I perfectly am, I am even questioning, if what I percieve, is an idea worthy of persuing, if the things I have concluded from the experiences I have had, is worth delving into. But why, do you start out by demeaning me to, basically telling me, I cannot propose these ideas, because I have been stamped as having a different kind of brain? Why, are you mocking my idea based off that, instead of giving it the same kind of judgement you would from someone with a bigger name behind them? Is it only the ideas that doesn’t sound insane that are worth investigating? If that is the case, then how did we get to the technology level we have today, when just 100 years ago it would sound llike the most insane thing in the world? Not because ideas sounded sane to everyone else when you thought about it.
I am not asking you to believe me, I am not asking you to dismiss me, I am asking you, to access the idea, philosophies, and pose the problems with the theory. I am not demanding, I am asking. But i do think I have the right to propose the idea before being told to go somewhere else.
I know, I am better of than most people alive. But I dont think I am well off. And first thing you need to educate yourself on, is that you have no idea of my life, my experiences, or anything. I am a name behind a screen and proposing you even know how my life is is kinda not very nice. But is it not, curious, that if we have all these tools available to us… WHY are there so many people living in a world content with being alright. Content with being told things are impossible.
If a dog is abused it will most likely become aggressive… Why is the world so aggressive, when we have all the means to help? Why is it not okay for a homeless man that knows cpr, to pass a dying man on the streets, but it is okay for people with wealth enough to stop world hunger a million times over, to do nothing?
And if you do not wish to amuse my idea, fine, but do not tell me to away because of your rude assumptions about me and my ability to think critically, specially not when I am asking help to find the tools to educate myself.
Okay, double chill. You point out that you are just a name on the screen and that I don’t know you, but you also asked why I would suspect that you are not sincere. I already answered that. I don’t know you, that’s the problem. I can’t possibly know if you are sincere. And for the record, I didn’t mock you or any of those other things. But if you keep up with that sort of rhetoric, I will.
You asked a lot of big questions that don’t have simple answers. I’ve studied the hunger issue for most of my life, so I’ll take that one. It is only very recently in human history that nations made an effort to support and help develop other nations, so expecting us to be good at that is asking a lot. It started sometime after we populated the whole world and all were in communication with each other. We started out just giving things away, but now we’ve discovered that it is disruptive to an economy to inject free stuff. Adjustments are being made, but it’s a billions of dollars industry that can’t be changed overnight.
“Aggression” seems to be an issue with you. You know we were monkeys in the jungle not that long ago. Maybe you should study human psychology to understand that a little more.
What do you mean you asking for tools to educate yourself? Obviously you have Google available to you, and I’ve already given you a couple things to hone your searches. Why not take a community college class in world history (try dancarlin.com if you like podcasts) or politics or whatever interests you?
I do not care if you know me. If I ask for help to educate myself, you should never tell me to go away and seek medical attention.
With so much effort being made, and the scientific tools to remedy it, and the money. Why is it not being done then?
Agression in itself is not a problem, but if that problem is nurtured we can become quite the monsters. And we figured out methods beyond aggression to solve our problems. I am clearly aware that it cant be done overnight. How old are you? You have been studying the hunger problem for ALL your life. Meaning that in all your lilfe, we have not yet actually managed to make a huge impact on the hunger problem.
Google… Yes but that is not a relilable scource of information. I can find anything I want on google, posing as fact. How do I know what is peer reviewed science for example? I don’t know. Is there a comprehensive databasa online where the public can review it? This is basically what I am asking. Is there SOMETHING, that makes me able to reckognize when things are science, and not just posing as science, even if I don’t understand every math that is done in that study? I am no scientist. But I am not an idiot. I understand some math, what I have been taught in school at least. But I cannot fact check them, because I do not understand it.
I do not care if you know me. If I ask for help to educate myself, you should never tell me to go away and seek medical attention.I didn't say that. You nearly need to stop doing that. I'm getting a little bit "spam filtered" right now, but I'll get back to you. This forum has a very aggressive filter, so sometimes you might notice it blocks you when you are doing things that aren't spam.
Alright, I am sorry. My first thought was of course you edited it, but the more realistic thing is that you told me this is not a place to get therapy, as soon as I mention that I did have therapy. When that was not what I wanted to know the answer for. But that is my fault, because I had not properly explained what exactly I wanted help with, only to gain knowledge.
So I am sorry. I am waiting for you to get back to me still!
Alright, I am sorry. My first thought was of course you edited it, but the more realistic thing is that you told me this is not a place to get therapy, as soon as I mention that I did have therapy. When that was not what I wanted to know the answer for. But that is my fault, because I had not properly explained what exactly I wanted help with, only to gain knowledge. So I am sorry. I am waiting for you to get back to me still!Thanks for that Ikiriz. Here's a start on how to figure what is true or not. I just started looking at it, so I can't endorse it for sure, but it looks pretty good. ] There is no database of what's true, or even what has passed the bar of scientific consensus. It's a complicated world. You can't know everything.
What if we live in a society where we are told what to eat, what to wear, what our opinions are, what we like and how we are as a person. What if we live in a society where fear and hatred are nurtured in good people, not because of malice but because of greed. What if we live in a society where a few truly, decide the faith of the rest of the world and everything in it. What if we live in a society, the smartest in the history of humanity, with the most advanced technology, the pople no longer knows how to find knowledge. What if we live in a society where good or bad do not exist based on who you are, but rather based on statistics and luck. What if that society that I am talking about, is not an exagerration. What if it is the very real world we live in today. What if everything in public media, is a subterfudge from keeping the public from caring, while scaring them into questioning it.I definitely sympathize with you, Ikiriz. Sometimes I do not understand pop culture at all. Sometimes I think it was something invented by aliens to thoroughly confuse us so that we'll be easier to conquer. Or maybe it's like the Matrix, where the aliens just have a different kind of logic from us. Then I just shrug and think, "who cares?" Maybe it's just because I'm older than you and have become set in my ways. I don't bend with pop culture. If I were asked a question I didn't know the answer to, I'd have no problem just saying, "I don't know." If someone asks me my favorite band, or favorite song, or favorite color, I shrug. It changes from day to day, minute to minute sometimes. The point is you don't have to conform if you don't want to. Relax. Take your time.