As per Occam’s suggestion, I will kick off my stay here by giving a brief and simplistic list of some of my views. My hope is that others can tell me where they think I should begin focusing in my searching here, but I am very open to and encourage challenge to what I think, as it is how I seem to grow best.
1.) I am a naturalist. I firmly believe that the laws of the universe/nature govern all of existence.
2.) I follow a consequentialist ethical system. I believe actions can only be morally justified based on their expected outcome.
3.) I firmly believe that science is the most, if not only, legitimate method of determining the most probable reality of things, and that it’s methods extend beyond study to everyday life.
4.) Aside from biological evolution, I believe that the principles flow into our everyday lives. We adapt to our personal various surroundings by trial and error on a daily basis, our societies over time do the same, and in the end beneficial views and habits stay while bad ones slowly die away.
5.) While I find myself often arguing with theists about whether or not humans are classified as animals or not, and I say that we are, I find us to be the current apex of life, with high potential, and think that if we improve on the things that do “separate” us from animals we can go very far as a species and society.
I think I will cut it at those five before I start to rant, I hope those five brief points are enough for people to give me some pointers or maybe expand on until we can find a spot for me.
Edit: I forgot to mention that, if it isn’t obvious, that I am an atheist and that I think the only purpose/meaning of life is that which we give it. Thought that might be important.
As per Occam's suggestion, I will kick off my stay here by giving a brief and simplistic list of some of my views. My hope is that others can tell me where they think I should begin focusing in my searching here, but I am very open to and encourage challenge to what I think, as it is how I seem to grow best. 1.) I am a naturalist. I firmly believe that the laws of the universe/nature govern all of existence. 2.) I follow a consequentialist ethical system. I believe actions can only be morally justified based on their expected outcome. 3.) I firmly believe that science is the most, if not only, legitimate method of determining the most probable reality of things, and that it's methods extend beyond study to everyday life. 4.) Aside from biological evolution, I believe that the principles flow into our everyday lives. We adapt to our personal various surroundings by trial and error on a daily basis, our societies over time do the same, and in the end beneficial views and habits stay while bad ones slowly die away. 5.) While I find myself often arguing with theists about whether or not humans are classified as animals or not, and I say that we are, I find us to be the current apex of life, with high potential, and think that if we improve on the things that do "separate" us from animals we can go very far as a species and society. I think I will cut it at those five before I start to rant, I hope those five brief points are enough for people to give me some pointers or maybe expand on until we can find a spot for me. Edit: I forgot to mention that, if it isn't obvious, that I am an atheist and that I think the only purpose/meaning of life is that which we give it. Thought that might be important.Your spot is for the taking, you appear to be a good thinker. Welcome. Just respond to others' posts or start one of your own. You'll fit in. Lois
Thanks Lois, I appreciate that. Eventually, at some point soon, I will lighten up and get more deeply involved with the other threads. Although I enjoy debate/discussion and its just the internet, I am a nervous person when it comes to new people. I am reading through topics and getting acquainted with how this forum runs, but in the meantime I welcome any other comments here.
First impressions scare the bajesus out of me, I am glad to know I have made some already.
Ach.
Well, I think you can stop your searching. Your list pretty much sums up a great philosophy of life shared, I believe, by many here. Perhaps you can focus on the lightening up part. Repeat to yourself: A little song, a little dance, a little seltzer down the pants.
Thank you, I am quickly feeling at home here, everyone I have interacted with has been very welcoming. It is much appreciated, and now that I think about this being a forum for free thinkers and from the looks a lot of humanists, I cant say I am that surprised.
Thanks Lois, I appreciate that. Eventually, at some point soon, I will lighten up and get more deeply involved with the other threads. Although I enjoy debate/discussion and its just the internet, I am a nervous person when it comes to new people. I am reading through topics and getting acquainted with how this forum runs, but in the meantime I welcome any other comments here. First impressions scare the bajesus out of me, I am glad to know I have made some already. Ach.It's much easier to express yourself on an Internet forum than face to face with other people. You will find that when you get into the flow of expressing yourself on a forum, your opinions start to gel and you will find that you will be better able to make them face to face, too. Just take it easy and don't rush it. Have you ever joined a Toastmasters Group? That's another way get the confidence to be a better debater. I recommend Toastmasters highly. It's also fun. I don't know if you live near CFI West, in Hollywood, but there is a Freethinkers Toastmasters that that meets there. I am a member. Lois
I am on other debate forums, so it isn’t really that I’m not a confident debater. Its mostly that I don’t want to come off in a negative way to people who aren’t used to me, and also I have seen how some forums on the internet can get out of hand. I tend to introduce myself, get a feel for it, and decide if I like it.
One example is that I joined a general philosophy forum a while back, and came right out with what I wanted to discuss and my opinions and so forth. I was met with a surprising amount of hostility and plain rudeness, and my stay was short lived because many there weren’t honest debaters by large. But from what I have read here and the interactions I have had its not going to be an issue at all.
It is an caution thing more than a confidence thing.
Also, I have not been to a toastmasters group. I live out in New York. What are they?
I am on other debate forums, so it isn't really that I'm not a confident debater. Its mostly that I don't want to come off in a negative way to people who aren't used to me, and also I have seen how some forums on the internet can get out of hand. I tend to introduce myself, get a feel for it, and decide if I like it. One example is that I joined a general philosophy forum a while back, and came right out with what I wanted to discuss and my opinions and so forth. I was met with a surprising amount of hostility and plain rudeness, and my stay was short lived because many there weren't honest debaters by large. But from what I have read here and the interactions I have had its not going to be an issue at all. It is an caution thing more than a confidence thing. Also, I have not been to a toastmasters group. I live out in New York. What are they?Toastmasters is an organization for learning how to do speak publicly in a non-threatening and supportive environment. What you learn there is more than formal public speaking. You will find yourself being a better speaker, debater and conversationalist in all kinds of venues. You can find a chapter near you here. www.toastmasters.org. Click on "meeting locations." You should visit several to see which one suits you. They all use the same program, but some are looser and more friendly than others. Lois
Achrelos, Since you have jumped in with both feet, with your initial list of beliefs, I will tactfully confront the one that I have some disagreement with. In your point #4, you conclude that “in the end beneficial views and habits stay while bad ones slowly die away” (in regards to societies over time). I am not convinced, at all, that this can be expected to be the case.
Societal/cultural/individual and societal views/individual and societal behavior and biological evolution are obviously not governed by identical processes, but do have parallels in their processes. e.g., Biological evolution occurs when organisms survive to reproduction in certain given environmental circumstances (thus genes that support subsequent survival-to-reproduction traits are passed on). Societal/cultural/individual and societal views/individual and societal behavior are strengthened or weakened (i.e, survive or not) by virtue of consequences, but (although similar to the process in biological evolution) it is, rather, by virtue of the consequences that occur in certain given environmental circumstances (instead of by genes being passed on).
If one understands this, then one would not, necessarily, expect that “beneficial views and habits stay while bad ones slowly die away”, inexorably, and inevitably over time. In fact, since broad environmental changes can happen, (naturally or anthropogenically) and since traits can be retained that are not necessarily suited to new circumstances, I think that, foreseeably, bad “views and habits” will not, irretrievably, ever die away.
There are major differences between the two, since one must follow scientific/natural laws and the other not, but I drew my conclusion based on trends that I saw.
One, just as a for instance, is the idea that slavery is okay. It used to be a practically universal policy that worked well in its time. But as countries developed, they began seeing moral issues with it, and it had a challenge. When put under the new pressure of people who disagreed taking action, it started to fade. Its not gone in the modern world, I am somewhat sure it goes on under the table or in other less developed/less looked at countries, but in a vaster majority of the world it has fallen away and been made illegal and unacceptable. It worked at then time but mean pressures made it not feasible in a sense any more and now its widely gone. It is changes like that in thinking and policy that lead me to that conclusion that societal and biological evolution are comparable.
What are you looking for? You also mentioned searching too in one of your above posts.
What are you searching for?
Here’s a song by The Who.
I know an existentialist could be searching or could also just as easily say that there is no use in searching for anything.
The Who…
The Seeker]
Oopse, didn’t make that clear. What I am doing is looking to see if the things I think and my approach to them fits withing any already defined umbrella term. If somebody asks me what I believe, I can’t give anything brief because I have a lot opinions that can answer one particular question, but only that one question and beyond that say little about me. Also by having a well defined group to fall into I can find a place, like here, to converse with like minded people, which can be useful for certain purposes rather than talking to people of other persuasions. But I don’t want to have to compromise who I am, because I find forcing yourself to conform to a doctrine is really a pointless task if you want to actually grow and learn.
I am here specifically because I suspect that Humanism or something like it may be what I am. So I am searching for what blanket term/group I fall into. I can call myself anything I want but I can’t know unless I can bounce ideas with people who have already had experience with the ideologies.
I am here specifically because I suspect that Humanism or something like it may be what I am. So I am searching for what blanket term/group I fall into. I can call myself anything I want but I can't know unless I can bounce ideas with people who have already had experience with the ideologies.Yes. Why? In my opinion compartmentalization is bad. "I'm looking for me...you're looking for you, we're looking at each other and we don't know what to do. They call me The Seeker". If you can find the right and applicable label for yourself, what then? If it's to expedite people's understandings of your views on life from an initial interface(casual first impression), good luck. In my opinion this initial expedient of classification will only be cancelled out by further requirements of classification and interpretation.
I am here specifically because I suspect that Humanism or something like it may be what I am. So I am searching for what blanket term/group I fall into. I can call myself anything I want but I can't know unless I can bounce ideas with people who have already had experience with the ideologies.Yes. Why? In my opinion compartmentalization is bad. Hmm, why do you think that?
If you can find the right and applicable label for yourself, what then?Then I just continue to be who I am and change or stay the same how I normally would. I guess I am not sure why I feel the desire to find a group to be in. Maybe it is just baggage from the past, or maybe not. I'll have to think about it.
If it's to expedite people's understandings of your views on life from an initial interface(casual first impression), good luck. In my opinion this initial expedient of classification will only be cancelled out by further requirements of classification and interpretation.I take your point, I can see how it probably would clarify very much for many people, especially if they don't know me yet.
I mean basics can be conveyed by classification. Such as stating you’re an atheist to someone. That’s effective.
Where it goes from there…who knows? And that includes telling that to a theist or an atheist.
That is my issue, atheism describes one thing that I don’t believe, and nothing of what I do believe, so although it can be useful it has extreme limits on what it says about me.
That is my issue, atheism describes one thing that I don't believe, and nothing of what I do believe, so although it can be useful it has extreme limits on what it says about me.Right. Like I said, quit worrying about what the title of your book is, worry about what the content of your book is. I started contributing to your other thread as well. The existentialism/humanism thread. Now when thinking about the content of your book,(and this is where my existentialism comes in.)is it really something anybody is really going to want to read in the first place? Really? :lol: I'm looking for me, you're looking for you, we're looking at each other and we don't know what to do! That's the existentialism part. The humanism part would be....but even if we don't know what to do, let's try to get along and help one another. Despite the fact that you don't know who you are and I don't know who I am. And we don't know who each other of us is. Of course not knowing "who each other of us is" is the biggest cause of strife since the beginning of time. That's the quandary.
To play off of your analogy, its like I am simultaneously writing each chapter of the untitled book of who I am, adding to each as I go along. But there is no order to them, its a work in progress and I guess I want organization in it, but maybe its naive to suspect that I can take a malleable changing item and give it lasting order.
To play off of your analogy, its like I am simultaneously writing each chapter of the untitled book of who I am, adding to each as I go along. But there is no order to them, its a work in progress and I guess I want organization in it, but maybe its naive to suspect that I can take a malleable changing item and give it lasting order.Well I didn't address the timeline. Only the title of the book. The title of the book is what you seem to be looking for. So when someone picks up "the book of you", they will have an idea of what they will be reading. The timeline is something more complicated, especially as your book will never be finished, and it will involve you; in the future, going back to previous chapters with a different outlook on what you previously wrote. But we're getting off-track. There's really nothing more to say at this point concerning these matters. If you really have to have a label for yourself, then go to it. That's what you want-get it. :-) Peace out.