War Drums in the Ukraine

Politics and Social Issues
245

Yes it does - way more than the vox link. Where is the fabrication on that site where they lay out the events of ukraine 2014?

Here is another

And another

And another

246

The United States Is Reaping What It Sowed in Ukraine

The U.S. government continues sending weapons to Ukraine, escalating the likelihood of war with Russia.

OK, and that means what? US is helping Ukraine? Anything wrong with that?

Here is another article about political progress in the US. Sounds ok to me.

What’s Happening in Illinois

The state is becoming a showcase of progressive legislation.
BY TERESA ALBANO
JUNE 15, 2021
What’s Happening in Illinois - Progressive.org

I would not trust this publication prima facie

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I would not trust this publication prima facie.

Except for the first magazine , the other two are clearly anti-American publications.
I would not trust a single word they say, just as I would not trust a single word that comes from Fox News in the US.

Try again or stand down!

You are just trying to justify Putin’s crimes against humanity!

Instead of telling me to stand down , tell Putin to stand down,
I am not throwing bombs in your backyard, am I?

247

Open the link and read. Thats normally how it works.

Dont ask for links if you dont want to read them and I wont be entertaining your anti american handwaving.

Happy to discuss and debate as civilised people, what is actually written in those links. If not, dont bother anymore.

248

I don’t need to read a news article that is 8 years old to know that Russia invaded Ukraine 8 months ago on a false pretext and since then Putin has ordered his military to commit crimes against humanity that are beyond any justification or obfuscation. Russia is acting no better than Germany under Hitler.

Over 11,000 civilians have been killed or injured by design in order to spread terror among the population. Russia is committing state-sponsored terrorism.

There it is, another slandarous lie .

First: There is no 8 year old propaganda article that can justify Russia purposely killing thousands of Ukraine civilians. That is just plain mass murder and is a crime against humanity.

Second; Me anti-American? Are you completely insane?
You are the anti-American troll.

So I won’t entertain your anti-American slander any longer. And that is truth!

I put you on ignore before, but now I won’t let you sling your smut without debunking your sources until you are banned from this forum for trolling.

249

If you dont need to then good bye sir. Not interested in talking to you anymore. On anything.

250

Now you get it! The sooner you refrain from false statements and anti-American slander the better the atmosphere in this forum. We can do without your intellectual pollution.

251

I tried, but I don’t like reading things that are obviously telling me what to think. Like an article about a transcript of a phone call that never shows me the transcript of the phone call, only a few words at a time, and tells me their opinion on the tone and meaning of those words. Or, like this rewriting of history:

It was not the “Ukrainian people” who decided in 1991 to dissolve the Soviet Union, of which Ukraine was an integral part, but three Stalinist officials: Boris Yeltsin (Russia), Stanislav Shushkevich (Belarus) and Leonid Kravchuk (Ukraine). They met while hunting on December 7 at a dacha where, after considerable consumption of vodka, they decided without any public discussion to dissolve the state that had emerged from the October Revolution of 1917.

Rule 3 in our FAQ covers trolling. Often, the trolls we ban don’t think of themselves as trolls. They think it’s okay to tone police others and tell them to provide facts, while providing misinformation themselves. Look up some fact checking, research the bias behind your sources, or we’ll have to shut down your account.

252

I see what you did there. Deflect to 1991 rather than challenge the 2014 coup narrative. Any comment on nulands dictating who should and should not be in govt of a foreign country ?

253

You linked to a page that had articles going back that far, even a note on the 1917 revolution, so, it’s you who is all over the timeline.

So, that’s it? That’s the whole transcript? What do you think leaders talk about? No wonder the other site didn’t print it. Really, it looks like someone told you there was a coup, then you googled that, and took whatever you found. There are over 200 posts in this thread, many using facts to support opinions. But your posts boll down to, “well this person says so”

254

The first link on that page is

Yet you went god knows where to find USSR in 1991.

Yes the leaked phoned conversation is one of many points of proof of a planned coup in Ukraine in 2014.

255

It says, “World Socialist Web Site”. Really? That is not evidence that Ukraine is not being invaded by Russia. What it most likely is, Russian propaganda, with no actual facts. Next, you’re going to post a link to a .ru site. :roll_eyes:

256

There was a header, then that was in a box. Be more careful about your own links if they are so important to you. And quit posting complaints about what I’m reading or using as evidence for my point of my view. that’s not discussion, that’s just arguing to argue.

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257

I am going to keep interjecting if you continue to deliberately misrepresent my position and what i have posted. Where did you get that paragraph on ukraine?

258

As I already told you, I followed your link and read the introduction at the top. Then I started clicking on the articles below it. What you call the “first link” is off to the left. I’m not going to go hunting for the quote, it doesn’t matter. It was just an example of the type of misinformation that the site was full of. The idea that dissolving the USSR was some sort of drunken decision made on a weekend by a few men is ridiculous.

You are continuing to troll. Make your point, or stop posting. Don’t challenge me on making up quotes. I won’t warn you again.

Edit: I had the wrong quote, corrected it to show I’m responding to vegans question

259

That article ends on this statement

The growing threat of dictatorship and war—which is so clear today in Ukraine—can only be countered by a united movement of the international working class fighting to overthrow capitalism and all its backers on the basis of a socialist program.

In many ways, I agree. Capitalism needs to end and socialism is the better option. But how do we get there? Going back to a corrupt politician getting ousted 8 years ago and saying that’s a reason for the US to stop defending the people in Ukraine now, that doesn’t make sense to me. Allowing Russia to take control of Ukraine? Doesn’t sound like a good idea.

I’m all for socialism, and I’m not stupid, I know our government is corrupt and keeps secrets from us. I can discuss all of that. But you aren’t discussing, you are saying people don’t know things, then you are posting links that have serious flaws.

260

Does any one still believe what they are being told
about what is going on in ukraine by the collective west ?

Russia On The Ropes–Part 13; Really

13 August 2022 by Larry Johnson

"Alright. I lied. Russia is not on the ropes. But that is not keeping the media presstitutes from trying to do their part as 21st Century Clothos. They are the masters of creating and directing the narrative, which is predetermined in their mythological world. Ukraine wins and Russia loses. Real simple.

Once again the NY Times is front and center with a new (and hilarious) spin on Ukraine’s inevitable march to victory.–With New Weaponry, Ukraine Is Subtly Shifting Its War Strategy:

Despite suffering grievous losses over nearly six months of war, Russia still holds a distinct advantage over Ukraine in a head-to-head fight featuring brutal artillery battles. But Ukraine’s military has achieved some new battlefield success, waging the war on its own terms."

261

Apparently you do, because you keep posting propaganda you believe to be true. Very little of what you post are reliable sources.

262

An example would be Ukraine’s mystic Kherson Offence that did not and will not happen

263

An example of what? You’re not making any sense and that’s the problem with propaganda.

264

The purported offensive has for months been a core talking point in western media