Trying to tolerate

Politics and Social Issues
81

If any of us were somehow magically transported back two hundred thousand years ago to the African savannas where the human story began and if we saw a group of hominids walking in the distance we would be irresistibly drawn toward them. We would need them more than they would need us, for food, water and something else just as vital, communal support and protection. When one group of humans approached from a distance another group of humans and this happened repeatedly, the dominant motivation wasn’t fear or competition, it was mutual cooperation and assistance. If we approached such a group we would immediately see them as being our own kind and we would certainly prefer remaining with them. The benefits would far outweigh the sacrifices. Staring down a lion is impossible for an individual but a group of humans learn how to do it quickly by banding together. This requires a shared ethos that sees every individual as having value and worth protecting. Thousands of generations survived by adopting a strategy communal sharing and support.

This common root of our human origin is something all of us have inherited. Our brains are hard wired to come to each others aid and this has been the central theme of human history. We are bonded to each other by deep ties of common anthropological experience. The ethnic and cultural differences that seem to divide us in this modern age are an aberration that has no evolutionary future. Those who cynically use these differences to divide us are destined to be disregarded and forgotten. The best way forward into the future is to remember our common past. Every human being on this planet is bonded to our evolutionary history, as every human being is the Genus Homo

82

Genus, that is a brilliant way to make the point.

There was a Spaniard, I think it was Las Casas in the 15th century, who believed in enslaving Native Americans, until his ship crashed in the Gulf of Mexico and he had to make his way to the Pacific where there were white people to help him get home. What he discovered along the way was the skills as well as the compassion of the people who lived there.

83

“Every human being on this planet is bonded to our evolutionary history, as every human being is the Genus Homo” wouldn’t this be more accurate’

Every human being on this planet is bonded to our evolutionary history, as every human being is OF the Genus Homo. All humans are members of the only extant species of human. Homo sapiens anatomically modern human (AMH).

84
Whenever you choose to separate yourself and your group from the rest of us you are practicing cultism --Bob
Cults have a completely different definition from culture. You are the one saying that your group is the right one and that others should assimilate to your norms. That's more like a cult. The thing you want us to assimilate to is very new according to any time scale you want to argue. And, that was created by enslaving others, almost constant war if you are talking about the USA and Europe, and by ignoring basic facts of history. Plus, it's killing the planet. You just don't have very good arguments for why we should all be like you.
85

I agree, Genus Homo, but if you’re addressing what I said to Bob about his support of White Supremacists, you missed my point. White Supremacist groups do not do what you are saying. They do the opposite. They make laws, such as the One Drop Rule and laws against marrying “outside your own kind”, preferring to go back to a time where if a black man even touched a woman on the arm to get her attention, they’d be lynched. See, Bob wants to include a group of people who would stop a woman like myself walking down the street with her biracial babies and spew hatred and threats at her, as well as hang the father of her children. I maybe divorced from my sons’ father and married to another now, but when it comes to such hatred, I will stand by my sons and my ex-husband, even if he is an ass and deadbeat.

Now I can’t ban anyone because they support a racist agenda, but if they decide to spew racial hatred and the agenda of the say the KKK, then I could and I think Bob knows that. I can however, no matter how vile his alleged inclusiveness maybe to me, educate him on the difference between inclusiveness and tolerance v racism, intorence, non-inclusiveness, and down right ignorance. Unfortunately, he doesn’t want that education. To say that White Supremacist should be tolerated and included in cultural practices is say we should accept violence, hatred, bigotry, racism, genocide as just another cultural tradition that we must tolerate. No that’s not tolerance, that stupidity and truth be told, my family and I would no sooner dine with the Klan than we would the Borg.

That said, he can accuse me of being a “wannabe Indian” all he wants, but he cannot deny that my son are part black and then start saying I should tolerate the KKK, who, if they could have their way, would sooner make my ex-husband “strange fruit”. I might not want to be married to my ex-husband and haven’t for a number of years, but he’s still a human being, first and foremost, as well as the father of my sons. The Klan would sooner beat my sons bloody and possibly kill them with the beating than allow them to live as “half-breeds”, a term that my older son despises and yes, racists do call biracial children of almost any ethnic group, “half-breeds”. The Klan would also just love to take my “quadrone” grandson away from his white family and place him where they think he ought to be and sadly “One Drop Laws” are still on the books in some states. The Klan does not represent tolerance and acceptance at all. They are just as bad as Custard who attempted to exterminate the Native Americans.

Bob confuses acceptance, tolerance, and inclusiveness with including venomous snakes such as the KKK. That is ludicrous and dangerous, because that’s not what White Supremacists are about.

86

In response to Hal, yes it might be more accurate to say “of” the Genus Homo because in the past there have been more than one model of that group we call hominids. Your comment is subtle and accurate. Anthropologists theorize that up to 90 percent of human population groups were killed off 75 thousand years ago when the Toba super volcano erupted in present day Sumatra. The volcanic winter lasted for years and this they theorize is why we see only one model of Genus Homo. This may have been why Neanderthal died out at roughly the same time. The term “anatomically modern humans” however is ambiguous because the present day model of Genus Homo has existed for hundreds of thousands of years and if we could go that far back and bring one into our present time we could inter breed with that individual which would be certain proof we are the same creature.

An interesting side note; it was once thought that modern humans and Neanderthal did not inter breed. We now know this is wrong. Extracted DNA from Neanderthal bones proved this did occur when they they discovered similar genetic bio markers in southern France, the last stronghold of Neanderthal. Rather than being detrimental to those discovered to carry this unique genetic association, it was found they had a more robust immunity to certain diseases.

In response to Mriana; I like you, detest any attempt, verbal or otherwise that seeks to diminish in any way the common bond of humanity that all human beings are entitled to by birthright. You probably know this but your sons as a result of an inter racial marriage have been given a genetic profile that enhances those traits that are socially desirable, intelligence, physical attractiveness, resistance to disease, a fully potentiated immune system etc. These traits are of course very much affected by diet, parental nurturing and social influences. It seems a simple thing to recognize another fellow human being when you see one.

87

In response to Genus Homo… Well, to me, they were the most beautiful babies and children in the world and they have grown up to be very handsome young men, who are also very intelligent (when they use their brains). I’m bias though. As for inheriting a strong immune system, my grandparents, born in 1913 and 1914 lived through the Spanish flu pandemic of 1918-1920. My great grandmother lived to be 94, my grandmother lived to be 94 and her 3 sisters also lived to be in their 90s. I also had a great uncle who lived well into his 90s. So, I’d say my sons and even my grandson inherited some strong genes, at least from my side, if they take care of themselves. Not really sure what they inherited in that respect from their father though.

88

Genus, I think “genus” is a taxonomic rank used in the biological classification of living and fossil organisms, as well as viruses, in biology. In the hierarchy of biological classification, genus comes above species and below family. In binomial nomenclature, the genus name forms the first part of the binomial species name for each species within the genus.

in other words genus has no special meaning to any group of species. It is a taxonomic container for groups of species.

AMH In paleoanthropology, anatomically modern humans is a term used to distinguish Homo sapiens as having an anatomy consistent with the range of phenotypes seen in contemporary humans from varieties of extinct archaic humans.

you need to reconsider calling AMH ambiguous or Genus as human.

89

Mriana: “It’s not cultism.”

Not when its my cult.

"I am not going to be fair and inclusive to … "

Those I don’t like.

“To be all inclusive … is ridiculous.”

Because those I don’t like shouldn’t be included.

"We are not excluding anyone except … “, which a totally different thing.”

Because they are the ones we don’t like and because when its us its different.

“One of my dreams is that this world grows up to accept … traditions”

But, only the traditions I like.

" I do not support hate groups. You cannot spell red hat without hatred"

Except for my group which hates red hats and that’s a good kind of hate.

“I don’t know what “Indian Preference” is”

Reality alert: It is what Elizabeth Warren claimed in order to get into college. It is also stated in every job advertisement for Rez jobs, meaning that a lesser qualified Indian will get the job even if a better qualified non-Indian applies for the job. If you really know anything at all about Rez life you would know about this.

“I do know if I have a choice … I’d go with the Native”

When I do this its not discrimination. I have the right to make the choices I want and I’ll say you have the right to make choices I think are right.

 

Mriana, you really make it too easy for me. Because I’m a gentleman, I’ll give you the last word. And because when I’ve tried to flirt with you and you ignored me I know you are a lady. Good morning.

90

@Bob Really? As Lausten said, there are signs that show a cult and what you said do not apply to what we’ve been saying. I know you don’t wish to be educated, but you’re going to be:

https://www.culteducation.com/warningsigns.html

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader. Followers feel they can never be "good enough". The group/leader is always right. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

There is not group leader for inclusiveness, but there is in the Klan. That said, the Klan isn’t what inclusiveness is about. The Klan is the exact opposite because they wish to oppress other groups because they believe the white race is supreme when it is not supreme. There is only one race and it is human with no one being better than the other. The Klan wants to kill anyone who does not submit to their oppression. The Klan is pure violence, as are other Supremacist groups. So what you have said show you totally do not know what a cult is.

Here’s another site that will tell you the warning signs of a cult and again, they do not apply to anything people have said here:

https://www.learnreligions.com/warning-signs-of-cults-4173088

01 of 06 The Leader is Infallible

02 of 06 Deceptive Recruitment Tactics

03 of 06 Exclusivity in Faith

04 of 06 Intimidation, Fear, and Isolation

05 of 06 Illegal Activities

06 of 06 Religious Dogma

So again, you don’t know what you are talking about, because none of the warning signs of a cult apply to what we have been saying. It’s not about who one likes or doesn’t like nor is about putting people in danger. However, under your reasoning we should be sharing a Sader with people who want to kill us. A bunch of minorities having dinner with Neo-Nazis. That’s not very intelligent to do and completely ludicrous.

Oh and BTW, the warning signs apply more to Supremacist groups than they do what anyone has said here.

91

Yes Hal, the word "genus’ is a general heading under which any number of plants and animals are classified and not specific to humans. I suppose a more accurate phrase would be “of the genus homo” or genus (comma) homo.

92

genus homo, I apologize. I overlooked that you are using the term as your member screen name.

93
Mriana:Yes, but Jews were still Jews, with their own subculture, practicing their traditions and probably the Hasidic Jews still walked about in their traditional dress if you saw them at all. There is no 100% assimilation though, unless people were to give up their traditions entirely, which means giving up religions and cultural practices. Even non-temple going Jews still observe Passover, Chanaka, and other Jewish holidays, just as Xians observe their Easter and Xmas and other Xian holidays. As I learned in my sociology classes, there is one large culture in a single country with many subcultures within it and that is what I’ve been talking about this whole time.
Yes, and it behooves folks of all sub-cultural stripes to assimilate into the large culture if they want to do well and even to survive. Resistance to assimilation is futile, and resentment is self-destructive. In a free society (meaning nobody really gives a damn about your beef) like the US, resistance gives notoriety to nonentities, and provides an outlet for venting of perceived grievances. There is nothing morally wrong with wanting to be who you are and insisting on preserving your way of life in the face of reality as long as you are content with being a quaint subset or even die out.
94

Another “why I can’t take you seriously” post Sree. Resistance to what the government or your culture are telling you is practically the definition of freedom. There is no freedom, except by force, if there is no just way to have your grievances addressed. Under your system, which, really, I don’t believe you believe what you say, but anyway, under your system, the guy who found out that lead in gasoline was poisoning the entire earth would have been a quaint subset. He would have died, and everyone else would have been increasing lead poisoned until they were all so stupid that they killed themselves.

95

@Sree

Yes, and it behooves folks of all sub-cultural stripes to assimilate into the large culture if they want to do well and even to survive.

Why? Why can’t they keep their subculture- their traditions and alike and still survive? I don’t see see Jews giving up their Passover with Sadar or their Hanukkah, Hebrew, Jewish schools, or alike, yes they are thriving. The Native Americans should be allowed the same, as well as Muslims (as long as they aren’t radical, Ahkman’s voice “I keel you” lol) The Puerto Ricans still keep their Quinces and other traditional celebrations and music too. So what’s your problem?

BTW, I don’t eat beef, so I don’t have beef… or pork, or fish, or crestatia, or veal, or venison, or bird or any thing that’s not plant or means the life of the animal.

96

No need to apologize Hal.

 

“Whatever single thing we are doing, whatever single thing we are learning, we are doing and learning all things, marching in the direction of universal power.” Ralph Waldo Emerson

97

Can you explain that Emerson quote, Genus? While you are at it, tell me what - in your mind - promted you to share it?

98

In response to Sree,

Your question is a good one because the cryptic meaning in Emerson’s quote is not apparent in his words.

This in my opinion was the idea he was expressing; this unitary, indivisible reality that we call the universe expresses itself in every one of its singular and particular aspects and consequently every particular part however small or seemingly insignificant is directly representative of the larger whole within which it has its place and function, and so all of reality is bound up and expresses itself in every particular aspect of reality. If we take the smallest example of reality, a single atom, a physicist will tell us that all universal forces are at work in this single atom, which is why the study of matter in its most basic forms has yielded more knowledge about our universe than observational astronomy even though we’ve learned quite a lot from optical telescopes.

The finite and the infinite, though they are at different ends of this universal framework of what we call the universe express the same underlying reality that is expressed in both. If an alien somehow landed in the driest desert on earth and walked over to outcropping of rock and saw on its underside a single drop of water ready to fall on the ground he would instantly know there are oceans of water somewhere on this planet because a world with a single drop of water is as inconceivable as a universe with a single atom. The fabric of all reality is woven from a single source and in knowing a single strand of that reality is to know (in part) its entirety.

As for why I posted this remark; the answer has more to do with what psychologically motivates any human being to communicate with another, and these motives are varied and spring from the individual expression of personality.

99
@Genus Homo: As for why I posted this remark; the answer has more to do with what psychologically motivates any human being to communicate with another, and these motives are varied and spring from the individual expression of personality.
Thanks for your eloquent response. You are one heck of a poet. Great writing.

Your interpretation of Emerson is very persuasive. I hesitate to agree; and yet, am reluctant to reject it outright. But how does one argue with a poem?

 

100

Did you just come up with that Genus? You might see it in a meme sometime soon.