“To the Victor Go the Spoils Meaning”
Definition: The winner gets the rewards.
It was first used in the US in context of political elections, but was later used as general statement of any form of victory.
Victor is a synonym for winner, and spoils are things forcibly taken from a person.
Summary
The saying to the victor go the spoils is another way to say that the triumphant person in a dispute wins that which they were fighting over.
I know what you think you are saying. You think there is some sort of fairness, some right to have something, and that victory in this case went to the people who had reason and goodness on their side.
That is almost never true about war. Winning always involves some compromise, some actions are taken in the name of expediency, some destruction is considered necessary to reach an end that is considered just. It’s never simple.
Please don’t misunderstand me. I agree completely. There is nothing civilized about war. War is HELL!
But when it comes to mortal threat, all rules go out the window. That is a law of nature.
Survival is survival by any means. There are no options or choices when faced with extinction.
The Donner party resorted to cannibalism in order to survive. People in lifeboats used to draw lots who would be dumped overboard in order to save food and water for the others.
War is terrible. It is where civilization stops and " fight or flight" takes over.
When flight is not an option, fight is the only alternate. And when it is a fight to the death, there are no rules, only survival. There is no such thing as a noble death.
As to the current situation; Hamas does not have the right to bomb innocent civilians.
If they ignore that rule, the victim (Israel) does not have to follow any rules either.
FEAR is a powerful preventive disincentive to break the rules. That is how fear evolved.
Respect the ones that can kill you or act act your peril.
Don’t forget that Muslims look forward to death and Muslim heaven.
- Thus, a Muslim should welcome death as a release from this transitory life. When we see death, we ought to be neither afraid nor saddened by it. We can miss those who precede us, but we should not be disheartened by the death of someone close to us. If they are Muslims, we know that Paradise will eventually be their abode as ours, and we will meet again, in sha’ Allah .
https://aboutislam.net/counseling/ask-the-scholar/muslim-creed/how-do-i-stop-being-so-afraid-of-death/
How do you reason with that?
I don’t understand you. I don’t understand why you think there aren’t other options. I don’t understand why you think Israel doesn’t have to obey rules but others do. I don’t understand how you think Israel will survive as it is currently governed if they keep acting like do. It isn’t a question of them defeating an enemy anymore, they have already harmed their future on the world stage by what they have done and are continuing to propose and continue to NOT do.
If you took any other nation that is currently claiming they have a right to prosecute war, would you apply this logic evenly? I don’t think so. It fails the outsider test. That’s a term usually applied to faith, but it applies generally to any logical problem.
You don’t. You understand that’s some theologian. Not a kid in the hospital.
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I don’t understand you. I don’t understand why you think there aren’t other options. I don’t understand why you think Israel doesn’t have to obey rules but others do.
Noo, I never said that ! Of course, Israel should obey the rules everyone (United Nations) has agreed upon.
I don’t understand how you think Israel will survive as it is currently governed if they keep acting like do. It isn’t a question of them defeating an enemy anymore, they have already harmed their future on the world stage by what they have done and are continuing to propose and continue to NOT do.
But you are missing the history. Jews have been persecuted for thousands of years. Today, their excessive violent response to violence is an evolved defense mechanism.
If you took any other nation that is currently claiming they have a right to prosecute war, would you apply this logic evenly? I don’t think so.
Well, then you are wrong. You don’t hear me complain about Ukraine killing Russian invaders. In fact I have advocated of Ukraine bombing inside Russia, which today Ukraine is prevented from doing. And what has that accomplished? Ukraine is going to effectively combat Russia, or is Russia going to take Ukraine?
It fails the outsider test. That’s a term usually applied to faith, but it applies generally to any logical problem.](Outsider test - Religions Wiki)
I am applying the outsider test. I have no skin in this horror, except for my sense of justice…
You don’t. You understand that’s some theologian. Not a kid in the hospital.
Exactly, I understand that theologian runs Iran. And Iran is what finances the Islamic terrorists that put Israeli kids in hospitals before Israel put Palestinian kids in hospitals.
(lest we forget 6 ,000,000 dead Jews in the span of a few years of “final solution” during WWII)
In effect, you are advocating that Israel does not have the right to self defense, because the lives of innocent Palestinian children are worth more than the lives of innocent Israeli children?
Again the question remains. How are you going to reason with theological fanaticism?
Have you been following the US news about the Christian Right retracting woman’s right to have an abortion, even in the case of rape or incest, in spite of a prior SCOTUS ruling?
You did say it by answering the questions I asked, ignoring the UN resolutions against Israel and saying Gaza should use the courts.
You can’t convert violence into reason that easily.
Way too many dots misconnected there.
Nope. You are claiming self defense without looking at all of the history and crimes.
While the bombs are raining down from Gaza? What are you talking about?
A little too late I should say. Israel did not start this, but they aim to finish it because the United Nations is not enforcing their tenet that First Strike is not tolerated.
Going to court? C’mon, that is totally unrealistic. Hamas will not stop, ever!!!
It’s the UN troops that should be in Gaza right now. But they are nowhere to be found.
Israel is on its own, except for US support that is now also threatened to be withdrawn.
Israel is on its own. No one is going to help them. What would you do?
Roll over and wait to die?
In Islam only force is feared. They rule by fear. Fear is what they understand.
Islamic religious police - Wikipedia , is the modern day medieval Inquisition and after a fatwah has been issued any apostate may be killed on sight.
1947 fatwa calling for jihad on Zionism
On December 2, 1947, the University of Al-Azhar religious scholars, the most respected in the Sunni Muslim world, called for jihad against the Zionists.[[8]]
List of fatwas - Wikipedia
We’ve been over all of this before
You said it. A few days ago.
We’ve been over the decades of peace negotiations.
So prejudiced.
Look up the defintion of jihad
I have. Now you look up the definition of fatwa.
And then look up what happened to a respected author after a fatwa was declared against him.
In 1989, Iranian supreme leader Ayatollah Khomeini, who led the Islamic revolution in Iran ten years earlier, issued a fatwa – a religious edict – calling for the death of author Salman Rushdie.
On August 12, 2022, novelist Salman Rushdie was stabbed multiple times as he was about to give a public lecture at the Chautauqua Institution in Chautauqua, New York, United States. A 24-year-old suspect, Hadi Matar, was arrested directly and charged the following day with assault and attempted murder.
Stabbing of Salman Rushdie - Wikipedia
Rushdie lost an eye in that assault.
There are no innocents in gaza. We are on the same page
So, children are just as guilty? What is this? Vietnam all over again? Those kids didn’t have a choice and often came running to U.S. soldiers because they saw them as safety. The enemy knew this, strapped grenades or bombs to the kids, then hit them or something in an effort to force them to run to what they perceived as safety, only to be shot by U.S. soldiers so they don’t both die. The kid would die anyway because of what was strapped to them. Those kids didn’t have a choice any more than kids in Gaza have a choice. They are innocents.
No, I said Hamas should have gone to court over the settlements. Instead they started a war by bombing innocent civilians.
1200 dead Israelis (and guests) in 1 strike is a declaration of war. Just as 911 was a declaration of war to the US (never mind by whom).
Yes, war is HELL !!! Everybody dies, young , old, sick, healthy.
Everybody dies!
The difference between war and a natural disaster is only who or what does the killing.
No, just being honest. I have been in war. People die all around you. Friends , family, everybody!
Have you been in war? If you have then you know.
Could it be you are prejudiced against Israel? You would not be the first.
p.s. I am not siding with anybody. I am only observing reality as it presents itself.
That is a demented form of human thinking and it only causes more people to be demented in their thinking, as it causes people to believe that war is the only answer to solving problems. Humans are a vile and violent species and Gene is probably wrong about us growing up and becoming really something. I doubt it. I think we will always be worse than animals because more humans than not chose violence. It’s really sick.
No, just being honest. I have been in war. People die all around you. Friends , family, everybody!
See? You have succumb to the illness of violence because of what you saw. It is a mental illness that is perpetuated by more violence. As MLK Jr said,
He also said violence begets violence. Such violence also causes a thing called generational trauma. That is also part of the problem of war and it all becomes a vicious cycle until people stop it.
Your logic only works if forget all the history before Oct 7 last year
I agree. A moment of realism.
Hamas should have heeded that sage advice. But they don’t mind dying. They will meet in the afterlife. IMO, that is a demented form of thinking.
I have never hurt another person in my entire life. But I am able to observe humanity from a dispassionate POV.
And again I agree, humans are the most dangerous predator on earth. We kill for sport.
So you’re saying not even children can be reformed and therefore have to die too? OMFG!
This is sadly true.
WOW, that is a stretch. Stay real, please. I am saying that if you try to reform a Muslim, you die. Apostasy is not tolerated.
I don’t hate people, I hate religions because due to their exclusivity, they have been the source of endless wars about an abstract idea!! All in the name of “salvation”. Major BS!
I hope you are not advocating for any religion?
NO! That is what you ARE saying! Kill everyone because not even the children can be reformed IS what you are saying. Killing children won’t end religion. It will reinforce it.
Oh for Pete’s sake! No I am not. People can be deprogrammed you know.
Who exactly started killing children? It wasn’t Israel. Do you see what you are doing ?
You are transferring blame to the victim who refuses to be victim anymore.
Don’t fight back because of the children that are being held as human shields by Hamas.
The children are the victims of Hamas actions.!~ Put the blame where it belongs.