The "true self"

I’m not really sure where this particular topic fits in so I’m just starting here.
I have been hearing all this nonsense about “finding your true self” or the thousands of people telling you to “be yourself” (whatever that means). It’s honestly the most tired out thing I have heard, and no one seems to have any idea what it is or means aside from saying “you’ll know It when you see it”.
I hate vague answers like that.
It doesn’t help much when I read different articles debating whether or not it really exists. What if it’s just something we believe we know but is largely unaware to us. What if it’s subconscious? I read that all the self is is just a narrative we tell ourselves to be true. That it’s nothing more than an illusion. Yet people derive such power from it and get quite defensive when it is questioned.
I just wanted to know your thoughts on this matter.

I'm not really sure where this particular topic fits in so I'm just starting here. I have been hearing all this nonsense about "finding your true self" or the thousands of people telling you to "be yourself" (whatever that means). It's honestly the most tired out thing I have heard, and no one seems to have any idea what it is or means aside from saying "you'll know It when you see it". I hate vague answers like that. It doesn't help much when I read different articles debating whether or not it really exists. What if it's just something we believe we know but is largely unaware to us. What if it's subconscious? I read that all the self is is just a narrative we tell ourselves to be true. That it's nothing more than an illusion. Yet people derive such power from it and get quite defensive when it is questioned. I just wanted to know your thoughts on this matter.
It's nothing but pop psychology claptrap and should be ignored. Lois
... I read that all the self is is just a narrative we tell ourselves to be true. That it's nothing more than an illusion. Yet people derive such power from it and get quite defensive when it is questioned. I just wanted to know your thoughts on this matter.
I think that our sense of self has illusory aspects, for sure. I think that it is a narrative, a construct, so to speak. But it seems to me to be a functional and necessary construct. e.g., Could one survive without a sense of self? I think not very well. "Finding your true self" seems to be an awfully amorphous phrase, as you indicate, and seems typical of the naivety of pop psychology that Lois refers to.

Unless of course your true self was known to you and it was being suppressed.
Like gays that can’t come out of the closet because of fear for example.

About that. I don’t really consider that a true self to be honest. I mean sexuality is fluid and not fixed. Very few people are 100% gay or straight. To be honest nothing really changes when you come out, only a sense that it does. If society didn’t demonize it then it would be just be another thing like being straight. I know that when I came out I thought I could finally be myself. In reality, it was just an illusion. Nothing changed and I found myself acting in accordance to what I thought was gay.
Is not so much a true self as a biological fact. Although I guess I have a different view of what the self is.

About that. I don't really consider that a true self to be honest. I mean sexuality is fluid and not fixed. Very few people are 100% gay or straight. To be honest nothing really changes when you come out, only a sense that it does. If society didn't demonize it then it would be just be another thing like being straight. I know that when I came out I thought I could finally be myself. In reality, it was just an illusion. Nothing changed and I found myself acting in accordance to what I thought was gay. Is not so much a true self as a biological fact. Although I guess I have a different view of what the self is.
Interesting. There you go. Of course the more gay people that come out, the easier it is for others in the future. Just like Rosa Parks on the Bus in Montgomery. So "being yourself" is a social thing. "Yourself" exists as a reflection of how you and others see yourself reflecting off of the social matrix. In this context anyways. The "coming out bit" which of course must be a huge "be yourself" type thing. However anti-climactic it seems to you now. These current times in my opinion are a rich, overripe expression of "the self". Look at the thousands and thousands of people tattooing themselves in an attempt to gain individualism...self. I'm guessing you're a little younger than me. Believe me, 20-30 years ago you wouldn't probably be so lackadaisical about how easy it was for you to "come out". Gays in the past would have killed to be able to have the freedom you have now. I could be totally wrong here..you could be the same age as me. Or older.
...So "being yourself" is a social thing. "Yourself" exists as a reflection of how you and others see yourself reflecting off of the social matrix...
Very profound. I like it.
...So "being yourself" is a social thing. "Yourself" exists as a reflection of how you and others see yourself reflecting off of the social matrix...
Very profound. I like it. oh stop!

A friend of mine had a great story about her father. When she was a teen and was talking about “finding herself”, he grabbed her hands and placed them both firmly on either butt cheek. He said, “there you are”. When you think about how many people can’t find their ass with both hands, it’s really great advice.

This can be on a few levels.
Whether it’s me, Titanomachina or Lausten I think we can take for granted the idea of knowing who we are and “being ourselves”.
That’s why I brought up the gay coming out thing. It’s interesting that Titan is in fact gay.
But we take this for granted.
Look at all the minorities or people with various issues that can’t be themselves.
As a Far Left kinda person I have found myself in working conditions with conservatives who were proselytizing.
I kept my mouth shut usually. For various reasons. Just didn’t want the hassle of debate. Or I didn’t want to be ostracized by people I would have to see every day and work with.
Again, just a hassle really. I let fly sometimes…but it really is a hassle.
By the way Titan, I hope you read this. I see that you never actually said it was easy for you to come out. So sorry if I misrepresented you there.
It did seem like you were taking your situation for granted to me. Again how the hell do I know?

Of course this could also be some of the issues you are having if you yourself are having a hard time being yourself.
Lot’s of people don’t know who they are or how they fit into the program.
You gettin’ enough to eat? F#$k everything else…I don’t know? :lol:

To be honest it was a bit hard to come out. But I think what made it easy was seeing how little of a difference it made, how little it all matters. It’s just an issue because people make it one, but it’s honestly no different than being straight. I realize that I wanted that whole special snowflake treatment that seems to come with being gay, which I guess was just me falling into the trap of individualism.
I don’t think my opinion would change much back then, but I could be wrong. I think people place too much emphasis on it, which is why coming out is such a big deal, because people make it a big deal. The same goes for weddings, birthdays, and other holidays.
But the reality was that I was still here. Nothing changed. The community I went to for help didn’t really help much. There was a certain manner of behaving that one needed to do to fit in there otherwise no one paid attention.
I still maintain that people don’t know what being them self is, only a vague sense of it. You seek until you find something that feels right and go with it. Honestly it is rather paralyzingly when you think about it.
Once you reach a true self, that’s it. No lie changes, no more growth, just that. I think people change this fantasy in the hopes that it will make them happy. But people are rather complex and change all the time. If they didn’t it would be rather dull wouldn’t it.
Again, only a big deal because people make it one. Eventually people will come to their senses and realize how little it changes things

I’m not ignoring the coming out, it’s just not something I know much about. But isn’t “true self” universal? Isn’t any attempt at self-expression an attempt to show something that we don’t think others see but should see? Don’t all of those attempts almost always fall short, except for a few brief moments with close friends? I don’t think this is some sad thing, or even a terribly mysterious one, it’s just the human condition. Neither is it mundane, or something we shouldn’t strive for, it’s a lifelong pursuit. It’s the struggle of not only knowing what to say or do, but when. If I stand up and make a speech about helping the starving people of the world, it won’t do much good if I’m talking to a gathering of children standing in line for a bowl of rice, or if I’m at an Exxon shareholders meeting. Wrong meeting.
Anyway, Happy New Year everyone.

I don't think my opinion would change much back then, but I could be wrong. I think people place too much emphasis on it, which is why coming out is such a big deal, because people make it a big deal. The same goes for weddings, birthdays, and other holidays. Again, only a big deal because people make it one. Eventually people will come to their senses and realize how little it changes things
Well this is interesting. It seems through culture and media and everything else that it would be important. I mean that's what we always hear. Like you said the emphasis placed on it is so culturally known now. It seems logical too. But somehow your view doesn't surprise me. But maybe that's just you...? Maybe it is a liberation of sorts for other folks. I didn't mean to derail this thread. Feel free to steer it back on course. I'm still not sure about the topic. True self? Are you happy with yourself? That's all that matters. That stuff we all learned in school and on Sesame Street...be happy about who you are. Don't worry about peer pressure etc etc...
But isn't "true self" universal? Isn't any attempt at self-expression an attempt to show something that we don't think others see but should see? Don't all of those attempts almost always fall short, except for a few brief moments with close friends?
No, no. I don't think so at all. I doubt those attempts fail. We have so many emotional and body language signals going on at every second that people are very adept at picking out other's individual traits. Plus language etc... I mean at least I don't walk around thinking everyone's basically the same robot.

Just because you hear something often doesn’t make it true.
I just find the self a curious matter. What people mean by a true version of it.

True self? Are you happy with yourself? That's all that matters.
Now that makes a lot of sense. To thy self be true. Maybe the hiding "true self" happens when one allows one-self to be forced into behaving as others want them to. Suppressing one's own desires and needs.

If we found our true self would we recognize it? Could we accept it?

If we found our true self would we recognize it? Could we accept it?
You can get stuff for that. Sometimes it works.
To thy self be true.
"To thine own self be true" was one of the themes in The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant by Stephen Donaldson and it is certaily quite different than the phrase "true self". I cannot help but think the implication/subtext of the phrase "true self" is something like, you don't know what that is and if you did then you would try to be more like me or what my religion/philosophy teaches you should be.

The true self is our conscious awareness, our ability to assess what we experience (right or wrong) and our ability to feel emotion. And it dies. That’s it.
Lois