Perhaps you can claim that caring isn’t in the definition of empathy.
Thing is in, in the real world, empathy usually leads people to caring.
But you have a different outlook. Your writing reminds me of an old song,
You took a very basic definition and did not see the word “caring”. You have some odd ideas on what “feeling” means. So your understanding of empathy is skewed. This one is more thorough. It begins with saying it is an action.
It’s really not, it’s all intellectual.
Also there are no such things as empaths. That’s just spiritual pseudoscience mumbo jumbo
Not true. Also like I said it’s making assumptions about their feelings, not truly sharing in it. You can’t get in someone’s head
I told you to read up on “mirror neurons”.
Which is why we need empathy. I know that’s counterintuitive for you. Empathy is a skill, not a trait. We can’t get inside people’s heads, so if we care, if we want to understand, we need to find ways to feel what they feel.
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I know about mirror neurons but the term “empath” is from the nonsense corner of spirituality of people who supposedly as so in tune they embody other people’s pain and that’s not the case.
I told you what empathy is. You can’t feel what they feel bar any sort of mind link device. I already showed how you can’t do that and included my own example. People don’t feel your pain or what you feel but what they expect you should feel based on their experience.
We are effectively just making up what we think the other person must be feeling. It’s in a sense lying to ourselves.
No it is NOT! It is a scientific observation.
This is pure biology and the principles of neural properties and function.
Light (wave function) is not a spiritual phenomenon. It is a physical fact as demonstrated by the “double slit” experiment.
When we observe an object we perceive its reflected light.
Empathy is the ability to recognize reflected physical behaviors associated with action.
Watching someone eat a tasty morsel and experiencing your mouth beginning to salivate is an empathic response. Yawning when observing others yawn is empathy.
Have you ever seen someone get hurt and you wince as if you are experiencing the event personally? Those are the action potentials triggered by the brain from an empathic response in the brain.
Ever seen 70,000 people cheer as ONE when their home team scores a touchdown?
Empathy! Nothing spiritual about it.
Here is an expert defining how the brain fuctions.
and this is a clear demonstration of anticipation by the brain.
and here is the observation by a real physicist.
The point of life/living is the consciousness and experience of being.
No it’s not. And Penrose is wrong about the brain and quantum effects. He’s smart but on some aspects he’s wrong, like any man.
Also is doesn’t matter what those guys say about how the brain functions, because the matter is more philosophical. Again, you’re just wrong here citing irrelevant facts.
No it’s not, heck even googling it just reveals how shaky and rocky the idea is. Also it’s not like you can test for empathy either, it’s just a “trust me” sort of thing.
No it’s not. It’s judging their feelings based on your experience and culture. You’re literally projecting not feeling.
No it isn’t.
again, none of that is empathy either. You’re not feeling or sharing with them, you’re still projecting.
You haven’t a clue as to what you are talking about. You have developed a mindscape that rejects all proper science in favor of your own false sense of objective knowledge. Mirror neurons exist and teach us how to copy behaviors.
They offer an evolved survival advantage!
The subject of mirror neurons continues to generate intense debate. In 2014, Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B published a special issue entirely devoted to mirror neuron research.[13] Some researchers speculate that mirror systems may simulate observed actions, and thus contribute to theory of mind skills,[14][15] while others relate mirror neurons to language abilities.[16]
Nobody disputes the existence and function of mirror neurons.
Neuroscientists such as Marco Iacoboni have argued that mirror neuron systems in the human brain help humans understand the actions and intentions of other people. In addition, Iacoboni has argued that mirror neurons are the neural basis of the human capacity for emotions such as empathy.[17]
Further experiments confirmed that about 10% of neurons in the monkey inferior frontal and inferior parietal cortex have “mirror” properties and give similar responses to performed hand actions and observed actions.
In 2002 Christian Keysers and colleagues reported that, in both humans and monkeys, the mirror system also responds to the sound of actions.[3][23][24]
Reports on mirror neurons have been widely published[21] and confirmed[25] with mirror neurons found in both inferior frontal and inferior parietal regions of the brain.
Mirror Neurons seem to exist in all brained animals. It is how we learn.
Abstract
Mirror neurons (MNs) were first described in a seminal paper in 1992 as a class of monkey premotor cells discharging during both action execution and observation. Despite their debated origin and function, recent studies in several species, from birds to humans, revealed that beyond MNs properly so called, a variety of cell types distributed among multiple motor, sensory, and emotional brain areas form a ‘mirror mechanism’ more complex and flexible than originally thought, which has an evolutionarily conserved role in social interaction.
Here, we trace the current limits and envisage the future trends of this discovery, showing that it inspired translational research and the development of new neurorehabilitation approaches, and constitutes a point of no return in social and affective neuroscience.
https://www.cell.com/trends/cognitive-sciences/fulltext/S1364-6613(22)00134-6
p.s. what are your scientific credentials? Second request.
Perhaps it is time for you to admit your shortcomings in the field of neural functions.
It is very rude of you to dismiss the work of accredited scientists who have actually performed experiments and have the results peer verified.
Especially as you seem to have absolutely no knowledge of any kind on the subject.
Show a little humility in the face of overwhelming evidence. You might even learn something.
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This language doesn’t help. He has a fringe view of the world due to many circumstances in his life. Speak to the human being, not from your petsonal POV.
You’re not listening.
I keep saying that unless you’re the other person you don’t really know how they feel nor do you share in their emotions. You’re guessing based on prior knowledge and experience. How people feel about stuff depends on upbringing, culture, genetics, all that stuff. If you don’t share the same culture then you likely aren’t doing empathy if they lost a family member. In your culture it might be sad but for them it may not be, but without that experience you can’t really feel what they’re going through.
Enough with the noise about mirror neurons, that’s not relevant.
The scientists themselves admit they can’t really test for empathy because how else can you tell someone is feeling something or sharing in a feeling besides asking them? You can’t. Even Sam Harris (whom I’m not a fan of) admits the same. You can have chemical tests, blood tests, and all that corresponding to an emotion but it really boils down to them reporting on how they feel and you just have to trust they feel that way since you can’t get in their head.
I already gave a personal example that backs what they say too.
No, you just lack perspective, as usual. You aren’t really putting the information together or thinking beyond it.
Quoting a bunch of junk isn’t understanding or knowledge, it’s just an encyclopedia. Heck the wiki link supports my view. Not only did it say that they question if they are involved in empathy but doubt their role in it. It also doesn’t help much of the evidence is self reports.
Heck it even says it’s affected by the mindset of the person and it’s not just a passive observation of their actions. That’s what I’m saying (in a manner of speaking). I’m thinking you don’t read your links.
It’s not fringe, it’s actually not that rare.
Empathy is really just us making a guess on what they’re going through, since we aren’t them we can’t really feel or share in it.
If I cannot speak to him in clear honest language, while he keeps insulting me, what is the use of any interaction? I am telling him about a scientific fact and he presumes that he can just dismiss the work of many serious researchers, without any qualification to make scientific judgments.
If you want to learn anything at all, you are going to overcome your unqualified "resistance’ to new science and knowledge of how things work.
Darkness, I am an empath and I am telling you that you are wrong. The brain is very capable of internal representation of reality, and cognition of objects from memory.
That mirroring ability allows you to read this sentence!
Mirror Neurons and Human Behavior
Scientists have long sought to identify the biological and neurological mechanisms that allow humans to, for example, imitate other people’s actions, empathize with others’ grief, and decipher the motivations for others’ behaviors without being explicitly told. In the eyes of some, mirror neurons could be the missing puzzle piece, providing scientists with a “unifying framework” to help explain our capacity for imitation, empathy, theory of mind, and other uniquely human skills.
Interestingly, mirror neurons seems to be widespread over different species. It is clearly a common survival mechanism of a positive nature.
The mirror function allows us to experience another’s emotions.
Note that emotions are triggered by neural “action potentials” which cause the release of biochemicals that produce emotion.
As I posted before. when we see someone hit their thumb with a hammer, why do we wince? We are looking at an event some 10’ away, but our brain responds with producing the same action potentials as in the real victim who winces. The brain reacts to the “image” of the scenario, without actually participating and getting hit.
Researchers have also offered theories linking deficiencies in mirror neurons to mental health or developmental disorders, including schizophrenia and autism, though some of these have been contested by other researchers and mental health advocates.
Do mirror neurons make us feel empathy?
Many researchers have theorized that mirror neurons are responsible for humans’ ability to feel empathy; some have even suggested that highly empathic people have hyperactive mirror neuron systems. However, the evidence for these claims is not yet entirely conclusive; one recent review, for example, found only a weak connection between mirror neuron activity and emotional and cognitive empathy, and no connection with motor empathy.
It’s highly possible that mirror neurons play some role in human empathy, but claims that they are fully responsible for our ability to feel others’ pain may be overblown. Mirror Neurons | Psychology Today
But that is not the claim. The claim is that the brain responds to the scenario by producing action potentials that make us wince, without feeling the actual pain.
Nervertheless, in the absence of a more compelling argument, weak or strong, the mirror function is a proven fact. Mirror functions allows your brain to fashion your conscious observation of the world inside your head! What you “see” is a mirror construct of your sensory recording inside your brain.
Now, are you going to call me a liar, or are you going to join me in discovering one of the most important features of the neural network from which consciousness itself emerges?
I’ve never met anyone quite like you.
I know empathy is guessing, it’s in the definition.
This is from Dan Rather’s book, “What Unites Us”,
This includes a good point, that those of us who are comfortable are in no position to demand those who are in need should be empathetic. It is the understanding of “grace”; it is freely given, which means it isn’t available on request. You don’t demand grace or deserve grace and don’t tell others to give it. You receive it graciously and give it as much as you are able.
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Why make it sound like that’s shocking or something?
Yes our conscious experiences are interactions, a constant feedback loop.
Yes, empathy includes drawing inferences from inside oneself and making assumptions,
that doesn’t make it not a thing, that is how things in the world work.
The better our inferences/assumptions, the better things turn out for us.
Even math with all it’s “Proofs” is based on accepted inferences, axioms.
Maybe you think there should be more to it? Is that it?
It feels to me like you are too wrapped up in your idealistic expectations and anything that doesn’t fit your ideal, is rejected outright - which sort of reminds me of the thinking that leads to mass insanity, consider the MAGA bunch with their twisted inner one-sided idealistic dialogue going on, doing God’s duty and all the non-sense. Pretty soon we’re going to find out just how crazy and damaging their thinking is, but I digress.
“It’s just an encyclopedia.”
This is true, and,
A teacher is just a teacher,
And a book is just a book.
And the student has a responsibility to read and think, that is absorb and process the information. Just calling everything garbage and moving on, that’s nothing but a dog chasing its tail.
Though you are absolutely correct, encyclopedia’s and dictionaries, etc. are totally useless tools, for those uninterested in picking them up, learning to use them, then taking advantage of what they teach you.
That’s not “wrong”, you’re still missing an awful lot. It’s not black and white, it is a spectrum of this and that.
Right/wrong mean nothing without a context and framing.
Empathy does not mean mind-reading,
appreciating one’s emotional state of mind does not imply knowing all about the details of what triggered an event. It sounds to me like you are implying it should? Are you?
Empathy it also includes being aware of one’s own thoughts and feelings, mirror neurons are a key part to that, and it is pretty presumptuous to dismiss an entire field of medical experts working on the real thing,
but hey we’re in a new age, . . . It is whatever you say it is?
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Your facts blow past the point that your own articles are making.
You’re not an empath, that’s not a real thing. That’s just that pop spirituality nonsense with nothing to back it.
The mirroring ability has nothing to do with reading that sentence.
It doesn’t, all your articles say MAYBE at best.
This doesn’t always happen, hence why we don’t know what exactly is the reason.
You aren’t reading your links.
That’s so vague as to be meaningless. Even just reading it about how it’s a “Deeply personal emotion” and “the feeling one has for one’s fellow humans” could apply to just about anything, even hatred or contempt.
No, it’s just recognizing Empathy for the mistaken notion people think it is. You aren’t feeling with them, you’re guessing how they feel. I literally gave my own example how people just assumed I would be sad about my mom passing and thought they were feeling with me when it wasn’t truth.
IT was more just their egos, not about me and what I was doing. That’s why I don’t pretend to feel with the person, just ask and try to understand. I question what is happening and then adjust based on what they tell me.
You really aren’t thinking beyond are you? The point was that just reciting facts without understanding or greater analysis makes you no better than a dictionary. Hence why Write doesn’t understand how their sources undermine their point.
It’s really not, I really think you guys need to read your sources. Literally nothing you’re saying is tracking with the data, you’re just repeating the same misunderstanding everyone has about empathy.
Can you define “ego”?
That’s why we also share thoughts in-between the facts.
The facts are offerings of information for you to process for yourself - but slamming the door on everything, isn’t how learning happens.
There has got to be some sort of good faith effort.
If anything, that’s where paranoia gets conceived.
Or, perhaps you simply love being contrary - and that’s all that’s really going on here.
Funny that, you don’t understand that yourself. You simply say, nah, that’s not how it works. No further insights. Not a second thought for what experts studying this stuff share (quotes and links others share) - as though their learned opinions have nothing to teach you.
Actually, this is where you would share sources, quotes, links to support your point of view and rationally explain what we got wrong.
Your words are literally nothing if you can’t accomplish that much, and so far you haven’t even tried a good faith dialogue.
So explain to us:
Why do mirror neurons not exist?
and/or
What is it mirror neurons actually do?
and/or
Is empathy a thing? The what is it?
and/or
Is empathy simply not a thing at all?
Some sources for further education opportunities would be appreciated.
If someone is not listening and not being reasonable, it’s not much use. You could take that chip off your shoulder too.
You have to address the listening. It’s like there is loud music playing and you are speaking in a quiet voice then complaining that the problem is that the person is not listening.
The problem is that he cannot be allowed to have the last word which denies science.
We are not here to deny science but to foster it.
Question: Is empathy a function of mirror neurons?
Answer: Yes, mirror neurons play a significant role in empathy. These specialized brain cells fire both when we perform an action and when we observe someone else performing the same action. This mirroring mechanism is thought to help us understand others’ actions and emotions, effectively “putting ourselves in their shoes.”
Mirror neurons are believed to be involved in several aspects of social cognition, including:
- Imitation: They help us learn by copying others’ actions.
- Empathy: By mirroring the emotions we observe in others, we can understand and share their feelings.
- Theory of Mind: They contribute to our ability to infer others’ intentions and thoughts.
While mirror neurons are not the sole basis for empathy, they are a crucial part of the neural network that enables us to connect emotionally with others.
Fascinating, right? How do you feel about the idea that our brains are wired for empathy?
I feel very comfortable with that model. It explains how we learn to survive.
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