The calm before the storm,

General Discussion
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That’s a little harsh, it’s complicated shit, as my ER nurse neighbor points out the South Korea test was developed a while back and all such things vaccines have their own learning curve. It’s simply the reality of going from petri dishes to human bodies.

J’ f’n crist, the medical world has been warning us for, forever. It was a political game. MIT was forced to start at first base, who the hell thought that one up ? And WHY???

 

But no, instead, lets smack around the scientists and doctors for lack of perfection.

 

Don’t mean to be emotional, but Get Real.

___________-

Actually had no intention of being back here this evening, but then saw this:

Trump gets polling boost, but will it last? BY JONATHAN EASLEY - 03/22/20

https ://thehill _ com/homenews/campaign/488698-trump-gets-polling-boost-but-will-it-last

President Trump DONALD JOHN TRUMPDemocrats grow nervous over primary delaysPence, second lady test negative for coronavirusNorth Korea says Trump offered country help amid coronavirus pandemic: reportMORE is getting a bump in the polls over his recent handling of the coronavirus pandemic but analysts warn that the uptick does not yet represent a meaningful shift in support behind the president.

Two new surveys released Friday found majority support for Trump’s handling of the health crisis. One survey showed Trump’s job approval rating moving past the 50 percent mark, a rarity since he took office.


F’n seriously?

National Security

U.S. intelligence reports from January and February warned about a likely pandemic

www _ washingtonpost _ com/national-security/us-intelligence-reports-from-january-and-february-warned-about-a-likely-pandemic/2020/03/20/299d8cda-6ad5-11ea-b5f1-a5a804158597_story _ html

By Shane Harris,
Greg Miller,
Josh Dawsey and
Ellen Nakashima
March 20, 2020 at 6:10 p.m. MDT

U.S. intelligence agencies were issuing ominous, classified warnings in January and February about the global danger posed by the coronavirus while President Trump and lawmakers played down the threat and failed to take action that might have slowed the spread of the pathogen, according to U.S. officials familiar with spy agency reporting.

The intelligence reports didn’t predict when the virus might land on U.S. shores or recommend particular steps that public health officials should take, issues outside the purview of the intelligence agencies. But they did track the spread of the virus in China, and later in other countries, and warned that Chinese officials appeared to be minimizing the severity of the outbreak.

Taken together, the reports and warnings painted an early picture of a virus that showed the characteristics of a globe-encircling pandemic that could require governments to take swift actions to contain it. But despite that constant flow of reporting, Trump continued publicly and privately to play down the threat the virus posed to Americans. Lawmakers, too, did not grapple with the virus


I mean talk about a Collective Cartoon Mindscape - Still absolutely no conception of what’s going down here. No conception of personal responsibility. Oblivious to the reality of cascading consequences.

There’ will be a harsh day tomorrow, % dead from the GOD View, won’t be outrageous. Oh but our precious GNP, GDP, and Wall Street profits and dividends and frivolous spending, lordie, lordie . . . But, what do I know, we’ll find out soon enough, time and tide waits for no man or folly. :frowning:

We did this to ourselves, we knew and we ignored it. We normalized lies and fraud. You don’t f’n think that’s going to carry consequences??? But will anyone learn?

It’ll start with recognizing our Evolution, and DeepTime and our planet as a real organism, etc.

 

gotta run

 

 

62

https://confrontingsciencecontrarians.blogspot.com/2019/12/introduction-pageant-evolution-project.html

63
We did, however, completely shut down our bases in Korea when we learned that two of the soldiers had tested as possibly being infected, and thus we see that at least our military is able to respond adequately to something that is real, important, and has an impact on us all.
I was thinking recently about how the military would handle this.

It must be totally upside down on military bases right now as everything is put on hold. Hopefully we don’t get attacked because we are vulnerable.

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Yo mr. silly guy, what chronic pessimism? Thinking about one’s mortality, thinking about one’s life and times? Taking the roller coast ride that an imminent death prognosis carried with it. Sure I may survive, but I may not. I do know the society we knew and the comforts we became so accustomed to will not survive. You are going to wake up the morning after to a profoundly changed Earth, humanity will still go on, economy will cobble together new networks and new realities will be accepted. But ahead is only increasing challenges and hardships. Our good times party is over, and you know, I’m mourning that also. I was never a rich boy, but I was pretty and sharp enough and good worker, to be put to work for plenty, so I’ve been able to observe first hand. Familiarity took the glitter out of it for me, so trivial, so empty, I was busy living getting to know people being engaged good memories bad memories plenty of self inflicted wounds, but the something in my blood that was stirring way back, when I was still crawling on rugs, I’ve been true to and it’s rewarded me a thousand fold and yes I want to celebrate that. That driving human need, I was here!
Too much introspection is also bad. Now that I think about it pessimism and introspection probably go hand in hand.
65

If you don’t like “pessimism” and “introspection”, then “foresight” must be really bad in your book, Oneguy.

Anyway, I think that a competent CiC, would already have put the military in charge of logistically dealing with the whole country’s medical preparation and function for the whole COVID-19 crisis, with it led by a military leader of exceptional skill in coordinating emergency logistics. (Our military, is well-funded, and can be quite helpful in certain large scale humanitarian crises.)

If T rump could do that one thing and then also, if he could just keep his mouth shut about the whole coronavirus thing until it’s over, that would be the most helpful thing he could do. But of course, he is not capable of keeping his mouth shut about something like that.

 

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If you don’t like “pessimism” and “introspection”, then “foresight” must be really bad in your book, Oneguy.
It's possible to have foresight without being a weak bitch.
 

Anyway, I think that a competent CiC, would already have put the military in charge of logistically dealing with the whole country’s medical preparation and function for the whole COVID-19 crisis, with it led by a military leader of exceptional skill in coordinating emergency logistics. (Our military, is well-funded, and can be quite helpful in certain large scale humanitarian crises.)


The cartoonish view civilians have of the military is always kind of funny.

 
 
67

This virus reaps the sick and the old; and even then, it ain’t greedy and takes, at the most, 1 in 10. Shutting down the national economy is going to impact 100 % of the population causing pain to the young and productive. Aging grandparents would not want their grandkids to suffer. Even newly retired parents would rather give up their lives to protect the jobs and business ventures of their kids. What’s wrong with our politicians in all three branches of government?

 

68
Too much introspection is also bad.
Couldn't be any worse than the monstrosities being reaped now.

I imagine learning from one’s mistakes is a bad thing too.

Hopefully we don’t get attacked because we are vulnerable.
Right, all this is no big deal in other places. Cartoon thinking all the way through. It's just what everyone has always been dying to do attack America. Sheople, dear sheople. . .

You know, it’s funny you should bring up a bit of introspection.

69

@sree one can be healthy and the illness take your life, so don’t be fooled by it. On top of it all, all those spring breakers in Florida partying away, unafraid of the COVID-19 may or may not get a mild case of it. If they do get a mild case, they could infect grandma and kill her. So the economy has to be affect in order to stop the spread and millions of people who could die. On top of it all, if we don’t shut things down, the number of people getting sick at one time will overwhelm the hospitals. Again, we have to shut things down, even if it does affect the economy. We have no choice unless we want more people to die. I don’t want anyone in my family to die from it and I don’t want any of my co-workers to die either. I don’t want people to suffer because they lose many family members and that’s what it will come down to if we do not shut down like many areas are doing. Sorry to tell you this, but your thinking is all wrong concerning this pandemic. All wrong.

70
paleohistory said; South Korea was also much quicker to quarantine, and they enforced it with their military, unlike the softies that we have in control. We did, however, completely shut down our bases in Korea when we learned that two of the soldiers had tested as possibly being infected, and thus we see that at least our military is able to respond adequately to something that is real, important, and has an impact on us all.
Yes, and if the New Republican Trump had not dismantled our participation in the global CDC network, which the New Democratic Obama had installed a few years prior, perhaps we might have learned more from Korea and the rest of the world how they were dealing with their crises.

Don’t you even dare lay this disaster at the doorstep of the Democrats. Unrestricted Capitalism is a Demon that will devour all shared privileges and responsibilities.

71

Oneguy, All kinds of things are possible. Like T rump for instance. He has ZERO foresight, but is not considered to be a “weak bitch” (your words). More like a strong but retarded asshole.

As far as out military being able to handle logistics better than our idiot DOTUS, that is not a cartoonish view of our military.

Who does broad expansive logistics (making sure that the needed supplies go to the right place without bottlenecks, bureaucratic obstacles, etc.)?

Did you learn nothing from Katrina? (maybe you were too optimistic and lacking the introspection to view functional ideas as cartoons). https://news.uark.edu/articles/10148/hurricane-katrina-showed-critical-importance-of-logistics-and-supply-chain-management

Where did you get the smugness to call people weak bitches and the smugness to call a great idea a cartoon? So you are a veteran. Big f’n deal. It doesn’t necessarily mean that you know shit. Apparently it doesn’t, at all, if you think that there are not elements in our military that could help save our assess in this crisis. We have paid enough for the mighty machine, we should get some humanitarian use out of it when we need it.

As a civilian, in this case, I apparently know more about the capabilities of our military than you do. Were you a logistics expert? You are not superior to a civilian in any way just because you were in the military. And you, above others, should avoid the smugness of thinking otherwise.

72

Here’s a veteran who DOES know something about logistics.

768×258 16 KB

His view does not seem cartoonish to me.

https://www.politicususa.com/2020/03/17/trump-slow-indecisive-coronavirus.html

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More like a strong but retarded asshole.
Flash from the past,
The Royal Institution - June 29, 2018

2018 marks the 100th anniversary of the deadly Spanish flu. How prepared are we today if another global pandemic should strike?

EU Peter Piot discusses the risk of another global pandemic in our interconnected world and discusses the shortcomings of the global response to the West African Ebola outbreak and, drawing on his experience combating HIV/AIDS, he will highlight the need to focus on prevention and preparedness for future health threats. Peter Piot is the Director of the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine and a Handa Professor of Global Health. He is the first Chair to lead Her Majesty’s Government’s Strategic Coherence of ODA-funded Research (SCOR) Board. He is Vice-Chair of the board of the Global Health Innovative Technology Fund in Tokyo, Vice-Chair of the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations (CEPI) board, Chair of the Global Burden of Disease Independent Advisory Committee and Chair of the King Baudouin Foundation US. He is a member of the board for the African Health Research Institute, in Durban, and the Public Health Foundation of India and a member of the Oxford Martin Commission on Future Generations. He was the Chair of the MRC Global Health Group and a member of the MRC Strategy Board. Previously he was President of the International AIDS Society, Chair of the WHO Ebola Science Committee and Chair of the European Forum for Forward Looking Activities. This evening discourse was filmed in the Ri on 29 June 2018.


74

paleo, You make excuses for the supposedly greatest country in the world not being able to figure out how to get adequate testing (AND WE ARE ALMOST 4 MONTHS INTO THE NEW DISEASE, STILL WITHOUT ADEQUATE TESTING).

But you don’t want to focus on the ONGOING mistakes of the current administration. We do not have time for big on-going mistakes. The virus moves at an exponential rate. If our policies are sitting still, with nice promises of help is on the way, when it really isn’t, then there is no hope of keeping up with it. SPEED IN TAKING ACTION IS CRITICAL. T rump doesn’t seem to understand that, at all.

The good things that have been done, are mainly due to dems. All over the country, dem leaders have been taking action, despite the inadequacies of out DOTUS’s handling of the crisis. (e.g., see Cuomo, gov NY). But they have been desperately scrambling to get needed supplies for the medical establishments about the country. T rump is not coordinating that. He doesn’t have a clue as to what to do. I think he is just hoping that it will all just go away. And if things go worse, as they will, he can blame the ones who actually were trying to do something.

Jebus, man. Why do you think partisan people are sometimes hyper-partisan? It’s because sometimes the opposing party is just truly f’d up. And there are times when we need our govt to not be f’d up. The T rumpublicans do not have the wherewithal (because their dear leader does not have the wherewithal) to deal with this crisis without f’ing up.

The latest from your dear leader is that we will try this shutting down the economy thru social isolation for just 15 days. Implying he may soon abandon the policy. What could go wrong there? The guy is a jackass who would nuke a hurricane to try to diminish it.

But sure let’s be non-partisan now that T rump has MADE AMERICA RECESSED AGAIN. So that the rebubs NOW have an excuse to literally add $trillions to the debt, and if the dems don’t fight every line in the bill they are trying to bum-rush thru, then there will be the usual distribution of that fun money to corporations and the wealthy, or even directly to T rump and his cronies coffers. AND AFTER THEY PULL THOSE TRILLIONS INTO EXISTENCE OUT OF OUR NATIONAL ASSHOLE AND STEAL IT, THEY WILL POINT TO THE DEBT AND DECLARE THAT THE SAFETY NET SOCIAL PROGRAMS MUST BE CUT, CUT, CUT BECAUSE OF THE NATIONAL DEBT.

I am partisan because it is ridiculous to be otherwise when the opposition is T rump.

Obama led us thru the emerging ebola epidemic. He acted decisively and speedily and used military assets and helped save the f’n world from a LOT of nasty death.

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CC, sorry, I can’t figure what’s going with your post. Trying a second time has never worked that I’ve seen. I’d copy it in, but you are responding something about “disparaging”, I don’t see that either. So, the thread would get really confusing.

76
Oneguy, All kinds of things are possible. Like T rump for instance. He has ZERO foresight, but is not considered to be a “weak bitch” (your words). More like a strong but retarded asshole. As far as out military being able to handle logistics better than our idiot DOTUS, that is not a cartoonish view of our military. Who does broad expansive logistics (making sure that the needed supplies go to the right place without bottlenecks, bureaucratic obstacles, etc.)?
Military logistics haven't been that good for decades. Early years in the Iraq war we had serious logistics problems that Donald Rumsfeld famously dismissed.

And these problem were/are with active duty military which can’t be deployed on US soil, so we’re left with the half assed National Guard – obese weekend warriors. They can set up roadblocks and give out Tylenol, I guess.

Did you learn nothing from Katrina? (maybe you were too optimistic and lacking the introspection to view functional ideas as cartoons). https://news.uark.edu/articles/10148/hurricane-katrina-showed-critical-importance-of-logistics-and-supply-chain-management
This link makes the case that the private sector had logistics better than the government during Katrina:
FAYETTEVILLE, Ark. — A University of Arkansas researcher believes state and federal emergency-management agencies and nongovernmental relief organizations could improve disaster response by learning from successful businesses that have mastered transportation logistics and management of goods and supplies. "Most skills and competencies needed to excel in logistics and supply-chain management are the same skills and competencies needed to excel at disaster relief operations," said Matt Waller, associate professor of marketing and logistics at the University of Arkansas. Waller was not surprised that Wal-Mart, the world’s largest corporation, beat the Federal Emergency Management Agency and the Red Cross to areas devastated by Hurricane Katrina. He said the company delivered supplies quickly and efficiently because, simply put, that’s what it does every day. Wal-Mart has mastered logistics and supply-chain management, and the company’s expertise in these areas worked well during a natural disaster.
77
CC, sorry, I can’t figure what’s going with your post. Trying a second time has never worked that I’ve seen. I’d copy it in, but you are responding something about “disparaging”, I don’t see that either. So, the thread would get really confusing.
User error. I shouldn't have to go back an edit the way I do. My bad.

The cyber god was just telling me f off, until I figured it out. But I kept a copy, coming right up. :slight_smile:

78

Or not, it’s late I’m a bit exhausted.

 

Anyone with kids or grandkids?

U.S. Centers for Disease Control & Prevention :

Talking With Children -

Talking with children about Coronavirus Disease 2019: Messages for parents, school staff, and others working with children

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/schools-childcare/talking-with-children.html

Tips to keep children healthy while school’s out

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/children.html

 

 

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Kids are inherently healthy, better than most. Schools need to reopen.

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@sree Schools are open, via virtually. The kids are still learning. The thing is, kids are a main conduit of illnesses, so to stop the spread of COVID-19 school must stay closed for a while. I have no idea where you get your ideas.