Stopped Clock

http://mansondirect.com/

“We’re all our own prisons, we are each all our own wardens and we do our own time. I can’t judge anyone else. What other people do is not really my affair unless they approach me with it. Prison’s in your mind. Can’t you see I’m free?”

I was just wondering how much does that stopped clock rule apply and how far you can go with it. Like the above is by Charles Mason, and looking at it I can see why some consider him a prophet (though that’s more by design considering that’s how he duped people).

Let the religious people remember that the anti-christ will appear disguised as a savior.

Look around and see what good public works Trump has dismantled so far . Be afraid, be very afraid, the anti-christ has arrived and he enjoys the support of many who had hoped for the return of a real savior.

14,600 untruths told by Donald Trump, President of the United States. Is this the mark of a moral person and leader of the free world?

The PolitiFact scorecard True 34.................... (5%) Mostly True 78..... (10%) Half True 102........ (14%) Mostly False 157.... (21%) False 261................ (35%) Pants on Fire 10.... (15%)
https://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

Well I’m not really talking about Trump but Manson. The quoted bit seems like something that could be true but I don’t really know. I mean I doubt the guy himself was free even if he believed himself to be so.

He blamed society for his woes. I heard an lengthy interview once and he said something like, “society made me the way I am”.

I his self-pity he forgot that many people grow up under extremely bad circumstances and rise to the occasion and challenge and live productive lives.

There was only hate that I could see.

Xain, why would you want to discuss Manson? The only thing to be gained from looking at his life is just how destructive drugs are. Everything he said came from a brain wrecked by drugs; there was no truth in any of it. He was responsible for the total waste of more than one human life besides his own. I’d be happy to live the rest of my life never hearing or seeing his name again.

Some people would say that some of the things he said were right about our current culture and world. Like the quoted bit. I know he was terrible as a human but part of me thinks it would be ad homeniem to just dismiss his words for that.

Xain, I get your metaphor about a stopped clock being right twice a day. And thus, the suggestion that Manson could have been right on rare occasions.

But so what? T rump probably says something that is true twice a day. Never mind that he lies many times more a day. Never mind that some of those lies contradict the rare things that he says which are true.

Neither Manson not T rump are likely to be great resources for trying to glean some truth.

A blind squirrel may occasionally find a nut. But you are probably better off to seek out a squirrel with eyesight to go looking for nuts.

I guess so, but part of me wonders if this is one of those cases where a legitimate criticism of the culture is written off as crazy. SOme people seem to think he was right about the culture of the United states

" SOme people seem to think he was right about the culture of the United states"

Maybe put some thought into what those who DON’T think he was right have to say.

You’re forever asking questions as though you are genuinely curious, but then defend beyond a reasonable level everything that viewpoint has to say. If you were genuinely curious you’d think about what other people say but obviously your mind is already made-up before you type your posts. You are pushing viewpoints and put no thought into what we say.

So stop pretending to be a lost puppy innocently looking for answers. Come on here and state your position without the fake persona of a ‘seeker’.

 

Here’s a Manson quote:

Maybe I should have killed four, five hundred people. Then I would have felt better. Then I would have felt like I really offered society something.

Very profound, eh? What secrets of the universe has he disclosed to us with this?

One would have thought it obvious to not take the teachings of a murder-preaching cult leader seriously.

So much for thinking obvious things are obvious.

It’s sad and scary to think Xian’s love of self-destructive thinking is being extended to the rest of us. Does he really think we all want to wallow in nihilism and self pity like him?

 

News Flash Xian… we don’t.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XEqnQjU04w

Xian, sorry no time or interest in checking out your OP link, but I’m curious

“stopped clock rule”

Can you explain what that is, in your own words?

You’re forever asking questions as though you are genuinely curious, but then defend beyond a reasonable level everything that viewpoint has to say. If you were genuinely curious you’d think about what other people say but obviously your mind is already made-up before you type your posts. You are pushing viewpoints and put no thought into what we say.

So stop pretending to be a lost puppy innocently looking for answers. Come on here and state your position without the fake persona of a ‘seeker’.


Your words mean nothing because your counter points amount to little more than “it’s not true because I say so” on a forum where supposedly you have to back what you state (which you don’t). My mind is not made up but it takes more than calling someone crazy to dismiss them (because by definition we do call crazy either what we don’t understand or those who we don’t agree with).

on a forum where supposedly you have to back what you state (which you don’t)
Xian, you don't even make points. You just post articles and say, "I can't counter this". And if someone does counter it, you say they are wrong, without providing evidence or logic. You just say it bothers you.

Yeah, Xain, like this Manson quote that bothers me:

Maybe I should have killed four, five hundred people. Then I would have felt better. Then I would have felt like I really offered society something.”

Is there some cosmic message that Charles was trying to give us? (Or is this just one of the bazillion times a day that he, the stopped clock, was wrong, instead of one of the 2 times a day that he said something right?)

If you locked a thousand Charles Manson’s up, with a typewriter each, and forced them to type for a thousand years, somewhere in there, they would have produced a decent children’s story.

I just know that I used to spend time on a different forum and someone there mentioned how he was some kind of prophet or whatever and gave a link to a whole page of quotes by him and what you see up there. I wanted to write Manson off as just crazy but ad homeniem says I can’t do that. That maybe crazy is just what people say to what they don’t understand.

I wanted to write Manson off as just crazy but ad homeniem says I can’t do that.
That's great that you respect the idea instead of the messenger or authority or whatever, but when someone says and does a lot of crazy things, it's okay to put that person in a special category. That is, a category of people that you don't pay much attention to. Manson might have said some things of value, but I doubt he said anything original, or anything that you couldn't find somewhere else.

Probably right, the “you are your own prisoner” is something I have heard MANY times before and in the period of the 60’s I’m there there were many others who said what he said without murdering people (in a particularly gruesome manner) and not to mention that he manipulated people into doing that. If people saw him as a prophet based on what he said then his words worked. THe site I got this from was very countercultural, read like something from the 60’s, and a few people put that forth.

This is where I got the idea: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14977322/fpart/1/vc/1