It may be that extraordinary political and social change (good or bad) occurs as a result of a “shift in the Overton Window”. And shifts in the “Overton Window” occur due to the tenacious efforts of those who express beliefs that are outside the norm.
If this is true, then we should all be very afraid re: the extremist ideas that are being effectively broadcast over and over to large segments of our voting population. The many extremist (and on their face, irrational and nonsensical) ideas that are coming out of the many and highly viewed Republican debates, can serve to shift the window on those ideas, so that they no longer seem irrational and nonsensical to our population at large.
:lol: I like that. I didn’t know they had a name for that.
It’s too bad the Democrats have been focused on superfluous garbage for 35 years.(not all of it…)
In other words conditions have been steadily ripening for this kind of discord.
Don’t blame the masses for their willingness, their easy maleability…oh no.
The blame lies with the enablers of Super-greed. Outright theft by legislation. Outright “Democracy by Auction”.
A solid Middle Class is the only repellent towards this kind of shift. And that is going, going…gone!
Please correct me if I’m wrong.
The Overton Window is one of the most frequently cited theories of political change in the freethought movement. It is also one of the least well understood. Misconceptions abound regarding the nature of the theory, its level of empirical support, and its practical implications. These misconceptions harm our movement, leading some to endorse unsound strategies and others to reject valuable approaches which contradict their understanding of Overton’s theory. A clearer, more accurate understanding of the Overton Window will help the freethought movement progress: the Window must be cleaned so we can see through it clearly.
This post introduces the theory and sets up some useful distinctions in preparation for future pieces.
- See more at: Nonreligious Questions
I find it quite ironic and troubling that a victory scream can end a Democratic candidates presidential ambitions, yet the Republicans gladly support a bigoted, misogynistic, racist, egocentric jerk. I suspect even Overton would be shocked at this development.
I find it quite ironic and troubling that a victory scream can end a Democratic candidates presidential ambitions, yet the Republicans gladly support a bigoted, misogynistic, racist, egocentric jerk. I suspect even Overton would be shocked at this development.Yes, but it isn't "Republicans" who support the jerk, it is a segment of Republicans. I must admit, though, that mainstream Republicans have not spoken out against Trump's horrific rhetoric and stances. They are apparently reluctant to speak up for reason and decency. Why this should be, I can't fathom. Uo to now, at least, there have been at least a few decent, intelligent Republicans, though they are dissipating quickly. Lois
Trump seems to have the charisma to shift the window. For example, advocating a systematic policy of killing family members of suspected violent jihadists might have, previously, been “radically unthinkable”, but now it is a real consideration for the American voter to ponder.
It may be that extraordinary political and social change (good or bad) occurs as a result of a “shift in the Overton Window". Trump seems to have the charisma to shift the window. For example, advocating a systematic policy of killing family members of suspected violent jihadists might have, previously, been "radically unthinkable", but now it is a real consideration for the American voter to ponder.I'm curious Tim, this Overton Window, is this a secret? Why aren't politicians that you favor using the "Overton Shift"?
It may be that extraordinary political and social change (good or bad) occurs as a result of a “shift in the Overton Window". Trump seems to have the charisma to shift the window. For example, advocating a systematic policy of killing family members of suspected violent jihadists might have, previously, been "radically unthinkable", but now it is a real consideration for the American voter to ponder.I'm curious Tim, this Overton Window, is this a secret? Why aren't politicians that you favor using the "Overton Shift"? It's just an idea out of a 90's (I think) think tank. But in a way, one might say that Bernie is using it to some degree. He may be making democratic socialism a more palatable idea for the American public, as opposed to their more typically equating (anything with the word socialist) with the Red Menace of Dictatorial Communism.
Oh, and I think that the original idea was that, usually, politicians cannot shift the window, but rather, are more generally corralled by the window. i.e., they tend to have to present their ideas as within whatever the current window of what is likely to be acceptable within whatever the current social norms/beliefs are.
Also those elected officials who are currently in power, tend to want to maintain the window that got them into power, vs. shifting it, so the idea goes, I think.
But what is interesting, and scary, to me about the idea, is that public education thru whatever means, (most typically media, one would think) can serve to shift the window, whether that be “education” with facts or with downright lies, effectively presented as facts.
But in a way, one might say that Bernie is using it to some degree. He may be making democratic socialism a more palatable idea for the American public, as opposed to their more typically equating (anything with the word socialist) with the Red Menace of Dictatorial Communism.You know who's going to do that more than Bernie Sanders? Hint, it's not in an "Overton Shift" type way.
The Silent Majority. An amorphous term…but it can be qualified.
But let’s take this list instead. An incomplete list…
People(families) with incomes that range between $12,000-60,000 per year, per family.
Students with crippling Loan Debt and “varied” options for seeking their academic career goals.
Continuous war for over 20 years.
Continuous “recoveries” from high unemployment numbers nationally.
A minimum wage battle that is laughable.
A troubled education system for kids and teens.
A dollar that spends less and less.
Most people incarcerated per capita in the world.
Political Economic Hijinks with banking and Wall St. Bailouts etc etc…
A new Healthcare system that leaves many people wondering what changed? Other than the administration of benefits…
And on and on and on…
What have the Dems done for this? Nothing!
The GOP isn’t gonna do anything for this…they are the party of the wealthy. It’s not their job. It is the Dems job.
When a large portion of the population becomes disenfranchised, or feels they have become disenfranchised then
they will start to look for other outlets.
The Dems have walked along into war. The Dems have sat idly by while people’s pensions have been gutted.
The Dems have watched Union Power go down the drain. The Dems make laughable overtures about raising the minimum wage $2 dollars over a ten year period.
The Dems are becoming the party that is associated with fighting for transsexuals, illegal immigrants, economic refugees, and more funding for
the NEA. All noble causes.
Except when you take into consideration the Silent Majority.
If the silent majority didn’t feel disenfranchised. Didn’t feel economically disenchanted then they would be oblivious to these “Overton Shifts”…so to speak.
They wouldn’t be squeaky hinges in need of grease.
The Dems were supposed to provide that grease. They have failed miserably!!!
So what do you think happens? This isn’t some new dynamic! This is how Social/economic politics operate…Basic 101!
But in a way, one might say that Bernie is using it to some degree. He may be making democratic socialism a more palatable idea for the American public, as opposed to their more typically equating (anything with the word socialist) with the Red Menace of Dictatorial Communism.You know who's going to do that more than Bernie Sanders? Hint, it's not in an "Overton Shift" type way. I'll answer this, lest anyone think I mean Trump.... Clinton, that's who.
The Silent Majority. An amorphous term...but it can be qualified. But let's take this list instead. An incomplete list... People(families) with incomes that range between $12,000-60,000 per year, per family. Students with crippling Loan Debt and "varied" options for seeking their academic career goals. Continuous war for over 20 years. Continuous "recoveries" from high unemployment numbers nationally. A minimum wage battle that is laughable. A troubled education system for kids and teens. A dollar that spends less and less. Most people incarcerated per capita in the world. Political Economic Hijinks with banking and Wall St. Bailouts etc etc... A new Healthcare system that leaves many people wondering what changed? Other than the administration of benefits.. And on and on and on... What have the Dems done for this? Nothing! The GOP isn't gonna do anything for this...they are the party of the wealthy. It's not their job. It is the Dems job. When a large portion of the population becomes disenfranchised, or feels they have become disenfranchised then they will start to look for other outlets. The Dems have walked along into war. The Dems have sat idly by while people's pensions have been gutted. The Dems have watched Union Power go down the drain. The Dems make laughable overtures about raising the minimum wage $2 dollars over a ten year period. The Dems are becoming the party that is associated with fighting for transsexuals, illegal immigrants, economic refugees, and more funding for the NEA. All noble causes. Except when you take into consideration the Silent Majority. If the silent majority didn't feel disenfranchised. Didn't feel economically disenchanted then they would be oblivious to these "Overton Shifts"..so to speak. They wouldn't be squeaky hinges in need of grease. The Dems were supposed to provide that grease. They have failed miserably!!!! So what do you think happens? This isn't some new dynamic! This is how Social/economic politics operate...Basic 101!To the extent that terms like "shifts in the Overton Window" and "Silent Majority" are functional (i.e., valid and reliable terms) they are just ways of looking at and trying to understand what's going on. The processes that they refer to are, of course, nothing new. And just invoking the names that describe these processes, of course, has no magical power to effect change or stability. As far as the "Silent Majority" invoking change, I question the validity of the term, as it is typically used. There is no doubt that there is a majority of Americans who are silent, re: social and political issues. But within that actual majority of Americans who are silent, the key question, I think, is what do they believe? What they feel is also important, as you suggest, as this will effect and support their beliefs and actions. But not all will wind up believing the same things, hence, they may not wind up, being a majority. Personally, I would like for the overwhelming majority of Americans to recognize that the issues that you listed above, are most critical, and, at the same time, recognize, that among the current potential Presidential candidates, only Bernie has, over decades now, been persistently trying to address these, and hence, should be our next President. But this is not going to happen, because there is no majority of Americans, silent or otherwise, who share this belief.
The Silent Majority. An amorphous term...but it can be qualified. But let's take this list instead. An incomplete list... People(families) with incomes that range between $12,000-60,000 per year, per family. Students with crippling Loan Debt and "varied" options for seeking their academic career goals. Continuous war for over 20 years. Continuous "recoveries" from high unemployment numbers nationally. A minimum wage battle that is laughable. A troubled education system for kids and teens. A dollar that spends less and less. Most people incarcerated per capita in the world. Political Economic Hijinks with banking and Wall St. Bailouts etc etc... A new Healthcare system that leaves many people wondering what changed? Other than the administration of benefits.. And on and on and on... What have the Dems done for this? Nothing! The GOP isn't gonna do anything for this...they are the party of the wealthy. It's not their job. It is the Dems job. When a large portion of the population becomes disenfranchised, or feels they have become disenfranchised then they will start to look for other outlets. The Dems have walked along into war. The Dems have sat idly by while people's pensions have been gutted. The Dems have watched Union Power go down the drain. The Dems make laughable overtures about raising the minimum wage $2 dollars over a ten year period. The Dems are becoming the party that is associated with fighting for transsexuals, illegal immigrants, economic refugees, and more funding for the NEA. All noble causes. Except when you take into consideration the Silent Majority. If the silent majority didn't feel disenfranchised. Didn't feel economically disenchanted then they would be oblivious to these "Overton Shifts"..so to speak. They wouldn't be squeaky hinges in need of grease. The Dems were supposed to provide that grease. They have failed miserably!!!! So what do you think happens? This isn't some new dynamic! This is how Social/economic politics operate...Basic 101!The Democrats are the lesser of two evils, that's the reason to vote for them even if they have serious faults, IMO. Republicans want to cut social programs and taxes to the bone, subsidize business, especially big business and the wealthy, and increase military spending, and they're far too quick to propose war. They fight every social program suggested and every tax increase that might fund them. They would end or decimate Medicare and the ACA and would cut the legs out of Social Security if given half a chance. And they also fight minimum wage laws and increases. That's why I could never vote for a Republcan. Their political philosophy is far too much at odds with mine. Democrats may be incompetent and negligent and break their promises, but their basic political philosophy is far closer mine than any Republican's or that of the Republican Party--which is something else we have to consider. In addition, I would be horrified to have a Republican president naming a Supreme Court judge. There is bound to be a vacancy soon, and another conservative judge would change Supreme Court decisions for decades, to the detrimentof the whole country, IMO. Poverty would increase and obscene wealth would be strengthened at the top. It could result in a Federal abortion ban, a ban on same sex marriage, drastic cuts in Social Security, Medcare and the ACA, if not the complete destruction of all three, increased military spending, and a greater chance of war and of increased terrorism. I'll vote for Bernie for the nomination, and I'd hold my nose and vote for Hillary or any Democrat who gets the nomination. In my opinion, all Democrats are head and shoulders above all Republicans because of the political philosophy issue. I will also vote for Democrats for Congress--another crucial issue too few think about in a Presidential election--but it's also critical that we don't continue a Republicam majority in Congress! if we do and a Republican wins the Presidency we will have Hell to pay, but we will still have Hell to pay if a Democrat wins the Presidency and a Republican majority continues in Congress. Gridlock will continue when it comes to Democratic bills. We will be doomed either way with a Republican majority in Congress. In a more perfect world there would be a nearly perfect party and a nearly perfect candidate, but that is never going to happen. We have to do the best with what we have, as inadequate and frustrating as that may be. The alternatives to imperfect Democrats is something too horrifying to contemplate. We have to take what we can get and stop dreaming the impossible dream. We have a choice between a flawed Democrat and a completely disastrous Republican presidency and Congress. Take heed of the alternatives. Also remember that if you don't vote at all it's a vote for the opposition. If you sit out the election you are voting for a Republican president, a Republican Congress and a political disaster. Vote for the less disastrous option, as difficult as that may be. It's all we can do. In my opinion, sensible people have no other choice. Lois
The Democrats are the lesser of two evils.... sensible people have no other choice. LoisYeah. I know. But no! No. Bernie Sanders is too little, too late. That's the truth of the matter. The Dems are no different then the GOP. They're worse in my opinion. At least you know where you stand with the GOP. I can identify the GOP as a party that represents wealthy interests and exploitation of labor. How do I identify the Dems? I look at all the issues the Dems are supposed to be for....I look at those actual themes, on the ground, in action, Real Politik... They're all decayed!! It's disarray! It's broken! Poverty...un-friggin-changed. Education un-friggin-changed Civil rights un-friggin changed Finance Reform un-friggin-changed Wealth disparity un-friggin-changed...no that's gotten worse! I can keep going here... these are supposed to be bread and butter DEM Platforms! 35 years!! It's a joke. Real wages have been stagnant for 35 years. Except wealth has grown exponentially in the upper percemtile! What are these Dems doing? That's the title of this thread right? The "Overton Shift"? The flippin' Overton Shift? How hard could it be for me to shift the window for you if I told you I can make your life better? How have the Dems not shifted this "Window" in 35 years? You know what they got? Gays in the Army!! Gays in the Army!! That's tectonic!
The Democrats are the lesser of two evils.... sensible people have no other choice. LoisYeah. I know. But no! No. Bernie Sanders is too little, too late. That's the truth of the matter. The Dems are no different then the GOP. They're worse in my opinion. At least you know where you stand with the GOP. I can identify the GOP as a party that represents wealthy interests and exploitation of labor. How do I identify the Dems? I look at all the issues the Dems are supposed to be for....I look at those actual themes, on the ground, in action, Real Politik... They're all decayed!! It's disarray! It's broken! Poverty...un-friggin-changed. Education un-friggin-changed Civil rights un-friggin changed Finance Reform un-friggin-changed Wealth disparity un-friggin-changed...no that's gotten worse! I can keep going here... these are supposed to be bread and butter DEM Platforms! 35 years!! It's a joke. Real wages have been stagnant for 35 years. Except wealth has grown exponentially in the upper percemtile! What are these Dems doing? That's the title of this thread right? The "Overton Shift"? The flippin' Overton Shift? How hard could it be for me to shift the window for you if I told you I can make your life better? How have the Dems not shifted this "Window" in 35 years? You know what they got? Gays in the Army!! Gays in the Army!! That's tectonic! We got gay rights, because enough people, on BOTH SIDES, came to believe that was the right thing. Do you think that the oppositional beliefs espoused, and promoted perniciously and incessantly by the Republicans, have had no role in limiting progress in education, finance reform, wealth disparity, stagnant wages, etc.??? You can only, legitimately, IMO, blame the Democrats for not playing the game more efficaciously than the Repubs. And the Repubs have the advantage of espousing things that are not based on facts, because their constituency is comprised of a lot of folks who simply believe what they are most comfortable believing. You make it sound like the Dems' lack of progress is completely their own doing.
Do you think that the oppositional beliefs espoused, and promoted perniciously and incessantly by the Republicans, have had no role in limiting progress in education, finance reform, wealth disparity, stagnant wages, etc.???I don't know Tim, is that what they were shifting in The Overton Window? So what you're saying is the GOP has espoused the benefits of low wages and crappy education? What have the GOP been promoting that would combat these basic ideas? And how hard was it for the Dems to overcome such perniciously skilled narratives Tim? Go ahead Tim...
... How hard could it be for me to shift the window for you if I told you I can make your life better?...You wouldn't shift it one blip, because some other fellow with an opposing narrative would be saying that he can make everyone's life better his way, and that your way is what made things bad in the first place. Some people would believe him some would believe you.
... How hard could it be for me to shift the window for you if I told you I can make your life better?...You wouldn't shift it one blip, because some other fellow with an opposing narrative would be saying that he can make everyone's life better his way, and that your way is what made things bad in the first place. Some people would believe him some would believe you. Sorry Tim. You're talking around the issue.
Tim can you name a GOP platform that espoused lower wages or bad education?
And if you can, could you give me some simple example how the dems could have seized on that and shifted the Overton Window?
It would seem pretty simple to me. I mean they’re the Big party, with a majority of the population. They got the money, they got the machinery.
How did they not shift this in 35 years? 35 years!
A majority of the population, oh say conservatively…85% would be highly, HIGHLY perceptive to such a message.
What happened?