Sex Education, Then and Now

Politics and Social Issues
21

Obviously not.
Considering how long it has been around, despite all the harassment and worse

https://www.history.com/tag/lgbt-history

https://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/history

What is the pre-history of LGBT activism? Most historians agree that there is evidence of homosexual activity and same-sex love, whether such relationships were accepted or persecuted, in every documented culture. We know that homosexuality existed in ancient Israel simply because it is prohibited in the Bible, whereas it flourished between both men and women in Ancient Greece.

Substantial evidence also exists for individuals who lived at least part of their lives as a different gender than assigned at birth. From the lyrics of same-sex desire inscribed by Sappho in the seventh century BCE to youths raised as the opposite sex in cultures ranging from Albania to Afghanistan; from the “female husbands” of Kenya to the Native American “Two-Spirit,” alternatives to the Western male-female and heterosexual binaries thrived across millennia and culture.

These realities gradually became known to the West via travelers’ diaries, the church records of missionaries, diplomats’ journals, and in reports by medical anthropologists. Such eyewitness accounts in the era before other media were of course riddled with the biases of the (often) Western or white observer, and added to beliefs that homosexual practices were other, foreign, savage, a medical issue, or evidence of a lower racial hierarchy. The peaceful flowering of early trans or bisexual acceptance in different indigenous civilizations met with opposition from European and Christian colonizers.

Oh and incidentally, for what it’s worth, about the only thing I know for sure about all that gay bashing stuff is that invariably the most vocal, trending toward hysterical about others sexual tendencies, are those who are struggling with coming to terms with their own “deviant” sexual drives.

The healthy heterosexual has no need to worry about other little quirks and kinks, hey, we all human.

22

Want some mora dora, right here on the floora dora?

Gay Warriors: A Documentary History from the Ancient World to the Present

EDITED BY B. R. Burg
Copyright Date: 2002, Pages: 299
Published by: NYU Press
Introduction (pp. 1-4)

In the autumn of 1991, presidential candidate Bill Clinton launched an acrimonious national debate over homosexuality. During an appearance at Harvard University, he was asked if he favored rescinding the U.S. military’s longstanding ban on service by lesbians and gay men. Clinton responded affirmatively, indicating that he would issue an executive order to that effect, if elected. After his inauguration in January 1993, he discovered a swarm of powerful opponents arrayed against him when he tried to redeem the pledge. In the angry and intemperate exchanges that followed, the arguments over whether or not gays could be allowed to serve


CHAPTER 1 The Classical World** (pp. 5-26)
CHAPTER 2 Amazons** (pp. 27-64)
CHAPTER 3 The Medieval Templars** (pp. 65-102)
CHAPTER 4 Eighteenth-Century Warriors** (pp. 103-120)
CHAPTER 5 Britain and the Wars against Napoleon** (pp. 121-160)
CHAPTER 6 Nineteenth-Century Americans at War** (pp. 161-190)
CHAPTER 7 The U.S. Navy after World War I** (pp. 191-222)
CHAPTER 8 World War II** (pp. 223-250)
CHAPTER 9 The Cold War to the Age of Clinton** (pp. 251-286)

Incidentally this isn’t about “defending” anything. It’s something I feel shouldn’t concern me, and it doesn’t, just don’t grab my ass. Simple as that*. Live and let live and all that. Can’t really judge another until you’ve had to walk in their shoes a while.

*With one caveat, keep it within the realm of consensual behavior, or else, of course, the situation and rules change.

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  1. don’t project our modern notions in ancient world.

Heterosexuality, homosexuality, bisexuality were unknown concepts.

For classical Greeks, homosexuality was not forbidden. Young aristocrats in Athens had mentors and served them, until they came of age. The lover was the mentor, teacher and protector of the young.

The sexual relationship stopped when the young was 18.

The Sacred Band of Thebes (Ancient Greek: áŒčΔρός Î›ÏŒÏ‡ÎżÏ‚, HierĂłs LĂłkhos) was a troop of select soldiers, consisting of 150 pairs of male lovers.

In ancient Roma, what was frowned upon for a Roman citizen was passive homosexuality. Active homosexuality was a fact.

Lovers were slaves of freedmen who had a duty toi please masters and patrons.

  1. the bible is more ambiguous about homosexuality that one could believe.

It has been said that Saul, David and Jonathan form an amorous triangle.

Noemi and Ruth could have been lovers.

but in both cases, the social order is maintained as there are weddings and children.

24

Only in cultures where it is not accepted.

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25

Sounds like pedaphilia.

26

It was, and it was not prohibited.

It was allowed in a very ritualistic way in ancient Greece, with social limits.

And, in Rome, “puer” could translate as child or sexual young slave.

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Even if it is completely accepted, Transgenders still have it much worse than cisgenders.

A transgendered person will have very few opportunities for intimate relationships, more distress related to identity, and worse physical health.

28

Homosexuality and Transgenderism are two different things. And Transgenders are less than 1% of humanity.

29

The Bonobo Chimpanzee may have practiced social communication sex before the advent of humans and may well be the result of their matriarchal organization, whereas the patriarchal Common Chimp society yielded the more traditional competitive sexual behaviors on which human society is mainly based.

The evolution of sexuality in chimpanzees and bonobos

  • [Richard W. Wrangham]

The evolution of nonconceptive sexuality in bonobos and chimpanzees is discussed from a functional perspective. Bonobos and chimpanzees have three functions of sexual activity in common (paternity confusion, practice sex, and exchange for favors), but only bonobos use sex purely for communication about social relationships.

Bonobo hypersexuality appears closely linked to the evolution of female-female alliances. I suggest that these alliances were made possible by relaxed feeding competition, that they were favored through their effect on reducing sexual coercion, and that they are ultimately responsible for the relaxed social conditions that allowed the evolution of “communication sex.”

and

A high-quality bonobo genome refines the analysis of hominid evolution

The bonobo or pygmy chimpanzee (Pan paniscus) and the common chimpanzee (Pan troglodytes) are among the most-recently diverged ape species (around 1.7 million years ago)[1]

(A high-quality bonobo genome refines the analysis of hominid evolution | Nature),2.

Both species represent the closest living species to humans and, therefore, offer the potential to pinpoint genetic changes that are also unique to human. The first bonobo sequence, which was generated using short-read whole-genome sequencing1, resulted in a genome assembly (panpan1.1) with more than 108,000 gaps in which the vast majority of segmental duplications were not incorporated and few structural variants were identified (Supplementary Table 1).

As a result of the lower accuracy of early next-generation sequencing technology and the fragmentary nature of the original chimpanzee genome, large fractions of the genomes of great apes could not be compared and gene models were often incomplete3,4,5,6,7,8. In the past few years, long-read genome-sequencing technologies have considerably enhanced our ability to generate contiguous, high-quality genomes in which most genes and common repeat elements are fully annotated9.

Here, we apply a multiplatform approach to produce a highly contiguous, accurate bonobo reference genome. Our analysis highlights the extent to and rapidity at which hominid genomes can differ and provides insights into incomplete lineage sorting (ILS) and its relevance to gene evolution and the genetic relationship among living hominids.

more

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03519-x

30

Yes we know that. But they dance with each other. The point being: So what?
Why’s it upset you, why does the notion disturb your insides, which is what your constant posting on such matters indicates. It bothers you. While I think, get over it, you ain’t so perfect yourself, let 'em be.

Wow, what you ever thought how many people that is? Globally that’s about (80,000,000) people, as in (80 million). In our corner of the world you’re talking about (3.3 million) people.
Or didn’t you realize it was that many?

{It’s just a decimal point. :melting_face:}

31

1 % of humanity : 800 000 000 or 80 000 000 ? still a lot of people !!!

32

Oops, it was early, Maddy was distracting me, and I hadn’t even had coffee yet, but okay, I’ll accept the spanking. :woozy_face:

Indeed 80 million is a lot of people as is 3 million. :v:t2:

33

It’s such a strange criteria for the conclusion anyway. Sure, we are wired to treat different as bad, but that’s not a universal determinant of right and wrong. We don’t base laws on our animal instincts. It’s usually the people who complain about these small minorities wanting rights are the same ones who complain when a 60% majority passes a law they don’t like.

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Gender identity is Nature doing experiments. This is not intentional but it is part of the stochastic determinism of chromosomal mutation and natural selection of beneficial survival mechanisms.

For the Bonobo an omnisexual society works just fine. It would work fine for humans as well, if it weren’t for the “moral religious” who presume to enforce their ideas of socially appropriate behavior.

Sexual identity per se is not covered under moral sins and virtues.

Lust

Lust is a psychological force producing intense desire for something, or circumstance while already having a significant amount of the desired object. Lust can take any form such as the lust for sexuality, money, or power. Wikipedia

“Lust” is a generality and addresses all behavioral excesses of “want” and gender in any form does not necessarily indicate lust, but identity.

35

Lust is driven by biological processes - it’s a clear example of biology encroaching on mind.

Psychology adds the window dressing,

If you walk down the street and the sight of that one particular person grabs you, literally like something just happened to your insides and it won’t let go.

That’s something way deep down inside you body, biological, it winds up driving us - while all of our more public psychology is what creates our story.

That magnetic click, when it happens, isn’t something you can decide to do, it grabs one from inside. Then slowly working its way through to the surface, where we start creating the romance and particulars of our story (within our hallucinating thoughts, as opposed to mind)*.

‘Oh we have so much in common, oh we are total opposites, guess that’s why it works.’ :rofl: :melting_face:

I know it’s not just romantic blah, blah from personal experience, but guess that’s a story too far, so shan’t go there. Suffice it to say, don’t ever kid yourself into thinking your body isn’t running the show, with your mind doing it’s best to fill in the pieces and tell your story as you go along.

As it is with our fickled attractions to other people be it their pheromones, or those eyes, or vibration of their movements, or whatever the hook is. Yeah, those eyes. It’s how you can recognize the stalkers, as well as the one you’ve been waiting for. So amazing, I mean microtubules are fascinating and cool, but the magic between people, or hell pets for that matter.

My experiences with Maddy my dog, have opened my eyes to that world, plus placed me much more in touch with these 40 acres that I’m blessed to be living on, since Maddy leads much of the time, and me, I’m a go with the flow sort of guy, so am game to follow. it’s been enhance since and past couple weeks she’s had to be on the line 100% rather than now and then. Now she’s healing up pretty good and wanting to check out place she’s has been to for a while.
But I’m tethered to her line most all the time to slow her down, good thing I’m still limber and with a sense of humor .

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I’ve found myself having to crawl on my toes, to get through some of the ridiculously low stuff.
Yeah, it’s a pain in the butt, but it’s an experience and the plant and wildlife encounters and different perspective and occasionally beautiful little scenes, seldom dramatic, but always fascinating are fun.

Then seeing her, those attentive eyes, looking over her shoulder, checking in with me, and my mood, she understands my different levels of ‘No’ and “go for it”, and she can gauge me, and she can negotiable. When she really wants to see something, unless I’ve given a firm ‘no’ that finds us hoofing it, she can be simply amazing good at herding me in a big circle back to whatever she really really wanted to check out.

Oh but we were discussing sex, and I was trying to point out that biology played a leading roll.
Then I brought up my Maddy because the past 6-7 year have been a fantastic journey of discovery in the realm of non-human communication, cooperation and even emotional attachment. We don’t talk, and she’s dummer than a two year old in some ways, yet in her realm, she’s a heck of a competent dog, with a nose that is well practiced and hunting skills I need to interfere with regularly.

Friendship, and camaraderie are those perhaps better examples of psychological forces 
 :cowboy_hat_face:

Interesting distinctions to chew on:

our brain/body
awareness
consciousness
thoughts
mind

Any additions?

36

That reminded me of something else, though related. Recently was speaking with a few folks about death and mourn the loss of children and other loved ones, which then drifted in dealing with the loss of a long time companion pet.

I was told that the loss of pet can be often be even worse than the loss of a person.
Beyond the fact that pets often fill the empty space in peoples lives,
there was also the curious matter that, people in your life are known quantities, persons who possessed their own interior lives, which were known to you.

Whereas with a pet, it is the owner who infuses all of the personhood, motivation, spirit, into that animal, plus the animal is the most unquestioning loyal pet-person in your life.

I can see what they are saying, but there’s more to it, am still chewing on the line and trying to process my relationship with Maddy, who often follows me around like a shadow and I’m told is depressed when I leave, as I currently am and will be for a long weekend, in beautiful downtown Dove Creek, Colorado near the Dolores River.

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[quote=“citizenschallengev4, post:35, topic:9737”]
Suffice it to say, don’t ever kid yourself into thinking your body isn’t running the show, with your mind doing it’s best to fill in the pieces and tell your story as you go along.

But you are equating lust strictly with “urge to procreate” or uncontrolled “sexual arousal”, but that isn’t the complete definition of lust.
Lust as a sin is way beyond that and means a psychopathic desire to possess or experience something in excess, be it power, wealth, or deviant behaviors, greed, coveting, gluttony, etc.

Islam requires women to wear burkas, lest their female proportions would excite the male to the point of uncontrolled lust and resulting rape. IOW women are sinful creatures. And of course that would be Allah’s fault for creating them that way.

Really pious, punishing women for men’s weakness and inability to resist desire.

Human use of artificial pheromones has depressed our natural instincts, and a reasonably well-adjusted male can certainly resist some of the baser urges that he may occasionally experience.

That’s why in the west women wear bikinis. In a conservative Muslim country they’d be stoned to death.

38

They are a tiny minority in the US.

Over 1.6 million adults (ages 18 and older) and youth (ages 13 to 17) identify as transgender in
the United States, or 0.6% of those ages 13 and older

I’m not upset they exist – mistakes happen in nature and they’re so rare that it’s easy to avoid them.

But I refuse to tolerate schools attempting to indoctrinate kids with nonsense about how these unfortunate individuals are just like everybody else.

39

No, that’s your assumption.
As for lust, I was using it a bit more generally, sexual drives, oh and that sudden thing between some couple, isn’t all about procreation or arousal either, it’s also about feelings of trust and an sense of at home, and something undefinable. :slight_smile:

And worse, too true.
But, please don’t tag that onto what I’m discussing. Remember, I’m approaching all this from a biological evolutionary approach, a long pageant of generations of creatures of increasing complexity, then mammalians, and apes, and humans. We’ll never understand consciousness itself via philosophy and science by rhetoric - all that stuff is anthropology more than a serious study of Consciousness and life and creatures - and only then by happenstance achieving what we humans are.

I think more in term of the underlying biological roots to attraction with a gradient that ends at lust and jealously and madness.
Still, seems to me the underlying drivers behind flirtation, are the same drivers of extreme lusting behavior, which brings us back to healthy balances, and the cascading consequence of extremes - and finding a place in the middle where we can prosper, or at least survive with least amount of grief for us and others.

40

I agree. I just see lust as more than sexual