Science, Fake science and public

In this thread, I propose that we talk about the reasons which explain that many people prefer fake science to true science and the way to correct that.

For me the first reason is that some scientists promote fake science.

This may result of ideological reasons and vanity, as in the case of Trofim Lyssenko.

This may result of financial reasons and conflicts of interests. The scientists paid by the tobacco industry are a good exemple.

in France, when the first reports denouncing the dangers of asbestos had been drawn up at the end of the 19th century, in 1996, the French National Academy of Medicine, an official institution, adopted a report denying the dangers of asbestos. Same year, France forbids the use of asbestos.

This may be seen when some scientists talk out of their fields of knowledge and sometimes the limit is narrow. One can be a specialist of Genetics without knowing anything about Coronavirus

The second reason comes from the way the media work. They need polemics and shouts to create a show. Anyone who can be called an expert and who defends strange theories is a good subject to invite.

And better, if the promotor of fake science believes what he tells. It helps.

The third reason comes from the social network.

On the net, every idea is on par with any other and both the false one and the right one present the same level of credibility.

The fourth reason is the public and the politicians.

They don’t have the basic scientific knowledge they would need, including me i must say.

They have prejudices. To give an extreme exemple, when you believe that the Bible is the literal truth, Science is a loser.

Next item is that nobody likes bad news. It is easier to believe that climate change is an hoax that to admit that it is a threat and that we must give up our way of life. It is easier to believe that Covid is a weak flu than to admit that one must wear mask; keep social barriers and so.

Last, people want explanations and simple ones. It is easier to believe in a plot than in a complex set of mechanisms. An better, if your belief allows you to feel member of an informed group knowing hidden truths.

It’s easier to claim its all China’s fault with the China flu than to question the state of our own health and political system

You threw a lot out there Morgan. Have you seen “Behind the Curve”, about Flat Earthers. It follows several, including two who add a little love interest tension to the movie. It gives plenty of time to the debunkers, but always gives the flat earthers a chance to rebut. Near the end, there are some good presentations that acknowledge the effort they put into it, it’s almost scientific, right up to that point when you can just show the thing they say can’t be shown. Anyway, it’s not so much about what’s true or not, since that’s obvious, but how humans pursue truth.

@lausten. Anyway, it’s not so much about what’s true or not, since that’s obvious, but how humans pursue truth.
I'm thinking "truth" isn't the word you're looking for.

Perhaps: It’s about how humans create the reality they choose to be present to.

I believe that past five, six years is a dramatic lesson: “truth” and “honesty” is disregarded by most people. What is “true,” is what one believes. If you question them, or provide contrary information, you make yourself the enemy.

Most people want to make sense in their immediate world and make their way. Most probably feel insecure, protecting one’s ego is priority number one.

Only the few look out at the world and want to understand IT -

Frightfully few I’ve come to discover. Why is that? Because it demands a fidelity to honesty that hurts at times? Only by honestly assessing evidence, (to what abilities one has achieved), demands discipline and a compulsion to be honest with oneself even when it’s inconvenient and hurtful. We know that, we accept that, because it’s those mistakes that offer the best learning opportunities for student and teacher alike, if you’re disciplined and strong enough to face your own 'idiotic errors,’ and to listen and absorb, one gains a wholly new insights and understanding on one’s topic*. Then more information is accumulated and we, rinse and repeat. (*Poetically, not that far from the fundamental lesson of Jesus’s Passion.)

@sabolina It’s easier to claim its all China’s fault with the China flu than to question the state of our own health and political system
and to misdirect in order to ignore one's own hand in creating the global catastrophe COVID19 became.

 

A Timeline of COVID-19 Developments in 2020

January 1, 2021 - AJMC Staff

Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) dominated 2020. This is a look back at how the pandemic evolved and progressed through the year, which closed with the arrival of vaccines, but also continued challenges.

As the year ended, the United States surpassed 20 million infections from SARS-CoV-2, and more than 346,000 deaths. Globally, cases rose to 83,832,334 and 1,824,590 deaths. …

Four ways Trump has meddled in pandemic science — and why it matters

How US President Donald Trump and his administration have silenced scientists, meddled in their reports and ignored their advice.

Giuliana Viglione - 03 November 2020
www_nature_com/articles/d41586-020-03035-4

Scientists sidelined, silenced and ignored

From cruise ships to asymptomatic spread: expert advice ignored

Revered public-health report delayed

COVID treatments prematurely approved

How Trump damaged science — and why it could take decades to recover

The US president’s actions have exacerbated the pandemic that has killed more than 200,000 people in the United States, rolled back environmental and public-health regulations and undermined science and scientific institutions. Some of the harm could be permanent.

Jeff Tollefson - 05 October 2020, Update 07 October 2020
www_nature_com/articles/d41586-020-02800-9

Trump Administration Abuses Thwart US Pandemic Response

www_brennancenter_org/our-work/research-reports/trump-administration-abuses-thwart-us-pandemic-response

The Brennan Center is tracking Trump administration attacks on government science, ethical violations, and other abuses during the Covid-19 pandemic.

Martha Kinsella, Gareth Fowler, Julia Boland, Daniel I. Weiner

LAST UPDATED: January 21, 2021

PUBLISHED: August 6, 2020

Introduction
Political Interference in Government ScienceFlouting Expert Guidance, Leading to White House Coronavirus Outbreak
Politicizing Testing
Censoring, Undermining, and Attacking Leading Government Scientists
Manipulating Public Health Guidance from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
Making False Statements About Covid-19’s Spread and Possible Treatments
Spending Government Resources on Unproven Treatments, Against Expert Advice
Canceling Scientific Research Grant, Citing Racist Conspiracy Theory
Undercutting Health Experts’ Advice to Wear Masks
Thwarting State Officials’ Science-Based Policy Decisions
Detaining Immigrants in Unsanitary Conditions Contributing to Spread of Covid-19
Changing Data Reporting Procedures for Unclear Reasons and Without Transparency
Attacking States’ Efforts to Expand Vote-by-Mail and Undermining the Postal Service
Exempting Medication Abortion from Regulatory Changes, Without Health Rationale
Political Official Seeking to Censor and Attack Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
Attempting to Politicize and Bypass the Food and Drug Administration’s Vaccine Guidelines
Hindering Covid-19 Research by Appointing Opponents of Fetal Tissue Research to Advisory Panel
Keeping Meatpacking Plants Open Despite Unsafe Conditions for Workers
Unaccountable and Unqualified Leadership and Other Personnel AbusesLack of Qualified Leaders in Key Government Positions Hampering Pandemic Response
Shadow Coronavirus Task Force Marred by Nepotism, Conflicts of Interest, Inexperience, and Lack of Transparency
Putting Federal Workers’ Health at Risk
Conflicts of Interest and Other Ethics IssuesFavoritism and Political Bias in Awarding Small Business Loans
Personnel Leading the Response to Pandemic with Ties to Healthcare Industry
Multiplying Irregularities in Federal Procurement Contracts
Vice President’s Chief of Staff’s Finances Posing Conflicts of Interest with Covid-19 Response
Trump Organization Seeking Benefits from Trump Administration and Foreign Governments
Placing the President’s Name on Covid-19 Stimulus Checks
Favoring Political Allies with National Guard Funding
Blurring Lines Between Political Speeches and Government Business During Virtual Convention
Redirecting Funding for Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) to Military Supplies
Requiring Food Relief Program to Disseminate Letters from the President Claiming Credit for It in Lead-Up to Election
Ordering a Promotional $300 Million Ad Campaign for the President Using Public Health Funds
Undermining Independent Oversight and Government TransparencyAttacking Inspectors General
Shirking Freedom of Information Act Responsibilities
Using the Pandemic as a Pretext to Achieve Longstanding Controversial Policy GoalsSuspending Environmental Law Enforcement
Implementing Extreme Immigration Restrictions, Without a Clear Public Health Rationale
Undermining the Rule of LawLoyalty to Trump Appearing to Be a Factor in Home Confinement Determinations

It’s easier to claim its all China’s fault with the China flu than to question the state of our own health and political system
Yet you refer to it as “China flu”?. Seriously though, it doesn’t help bringing unrelated problems to the discussion. American politics had nothing to do with covid’s origin or global spread.
American politics had nothing to do with covid’s origin
I'll give you that.
or global spread.
You weren't paying any attention if you actually believe that second half. Go back to #344901, the evidence can be ignored, but that doesn't make it go away. The facts speak for themselves.

 

 

We used to be a world leader for more than being a military superpower. We used to help lead.

Speaking of the love of science my friends, did I read somewhere on this board that Morgan claimed plants feel pain?

Anyway, it’s not so much about what’s true or not, since that’s obvious, but how humans pursue truth. -- Lausten**

I’m thinking “truth” isn’t the word you’re looking for. --CC


This might just be a definition problem. I liked the rest of what you said. It’s part of people not seeming to be interested in developing the skills to determine truth.

But, first, definition. I go this from Aron Ra. Truth is that which comports with reality. Reality is what can be demonstrated. So we arrive at the mindscape. We are only able to determine what’s true using the mindscape we have. That includes all the tools we have to extend our senses, including the mathematical ones.

** Keep in mind the “it” in my quote above referencing the documentary on Flat Earthers. The “truth” I say is obvious is that the Earth is round.

A little more complex than in my memory :

https://www.britannica.com/story/do-plants-feel-pain

https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/24473/20191218/a-group-of-scientists-suggest-that-plants-feel-pain.htm

One can err, but one must recognize it and correct the mistake.

I sum up: reaction to stress and damage yes, pain as we feel it, probably not.

 

 

 

How embarrassing Morgan

Hey, pee shooter, when are you going to start showing a little class?

At least Morgan can discuss his ideas, recognize what others are saying, reassess what he’s said, and honestly make a correction.

 

Sabolina, you just come across like someone trying really hard to be a disagreeable jerk, and you succeed much of the time.

Here, chew on this a while:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsIbfYEizLk

 

You weren’t paying any attention if you actually believe that second half. Go back to #344901, the evidence can be ignored, but that doesn’t make it go away. The facts speak for themselves.
Those links are about what happened in America only. Global spread was underway before it showed up here.

 

Those links are about what happened in America only. Global spread was underway before it showed up here. -- one
If we isolated ourselves and tried to fend off a pandemic after it had spread around the world, we couldn't do it. Isolation is not possible in this world.

We had response teams around the world, but Trump dialed them back. Practically asking for a virus to get out of control

Trump dialed our “response teams” back, nobody else. It is also worth noting most developed nations did well with their own responses without American support so forget the spiel about the global need for US leadership.

Well said One guy.

I’m talking about how he hobbled the medical system and the hostility Trump demonstrated toward the experts, national and global.

We were the historical world leaders, but guess that’s out the window these days, ME FIRST.

Trump is the person who tossed a ton of fuel onto the crisis, guaranteeing a runaway global pandemic.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Simon Tisdall Sun 12 Apr 2020 10.25 EDT

TheGuardian_com/us-news/2020/apr/12/us-global-reputation-rock-bottom-donald-trump-coronavirus

Donald Trump’s response to the coronavirus pandemic, which he once dismissed as a hoax, has been fiercely criticised at home as woefully inadequate to the point of irresponsibility.

Yet also thanks largely to Trump, a parallel disaster is unfolding across the world: the ruination of America’s reputation as a safe, trustworthy, competent international leader and partner.

Call it the Trump double-whammy. Diplomatically speaking, the US is on life support.

 

“The Trump administration’s self-centred, haphazard, and tone-deaf response [to Covid-19] will end up costing Americans trillions of dollars and thousands of otherwise preventable deaths,” wrote Stephen Walt, professor of international relations at Harvard.

“But that’s not the only damage the United States will suffer. Far from ‘making America great again’, this epic policy failure will further tarnish [its] reputation as a country that knows how to do things effectively.”

This adverse shift could be permanent, Walt warned. Since taking office in 2017, Trump has insulted America’s friends, undermined multilateral alliances and chosen confrontation over cooperation. Sanctions, embargoes and boycotts aimed at China, Iran and Europe have been globally divisive.


 

He Could Have Seen What Was Coming: Behind Trump’s Failure on the Virus An examination reveals the president was warned about the potential for a pandemic but that internal divisions, lack of planning and his faith in his own instincts led to a halting response.

nytimes_com/2020/04/11/us/politics/coronavirus-trump-response.html

By Eric Lipton, David E. Sanger, Maggie Haberman, Michael D. Shear, Mark Mazzetti and Julian E. Barnes
Published April 11, 2020, Updated April 26, 2021

But dozens of interviews with current and former officials and a review of emails and other records revealed many previously unreported details and a fuller picture of the roots and extent of his halting response as the deadly virus spread:

The National Security Council office responsible for tracking pandemics received intelligence reports in early January predicting the spread of the virus to the United States, and within weeks was raising options like keeping Americans home from work and shutting down cities the size of Chicago. Mr. Trump would avoid such steps until March.

Despite Mr. Trump’s denial weeks later, he was told at the time about a Jan. 29 memo produced by his trade adviser, Peter Navarro, laying out in striking detail the potential risks of a coronavirus pandemic: as many as half a million deaths and trillions of dollars in economic losses.

The health and human services secretary, Alex M. Azar II, directly warned Mr. Trump of the possibility of a pandemic during a call on Jan. 30, the second warning he delivered to the president about the virus in two weeks. The president, who was on Air Force One while traveling for appearances in the Midwest, responded that Mr. Azar was being alarmist.

Mr. Azar publicly announced in February that the government was establishing a “surveillance” system in five American cities to measure the spread of the virus and enable experts to project the next hot spots. It was delayed for weeks. The slow start of that plan, on top of the well-documented failures to develop the nation’s testing capacity, left administration officials with almost no insight into how rapidly the virus was spreading. “We were flying the plane with no instruments,” one official said.

By the third week in February, the administration’s top public health experts concluded they should recommend to Mr. Trump a new approach that would include warning the American people of the risks and urging steps like social distancing and staying home from work. But the White House focused instead on messaging and crucial additional weeks went by before their views were reluctantly accepted by the president — time when the virus spread largely unimpeded.

When Mr. Trump finally agreed in mid-March to recommend social distancing across the country, effectively bringing much of the economy to a halt, he seemed shellshocked and deflated to some of his closest associates. One described him as “subdued” and “baffled” by how the crisis had played out. An economy that he had wagered his re-election on was suddenly in shambles.


How can all this be disregarded so flippantly.

Always misdirecting. Never learning.

The two of you don’t seem to be aware of what your country does

https://www.cdc.gov/globalhealth/healthprotection/errb/global-rrt.htm

Or what Trump did

https://fortune.com/2020/02/26/coronavirus-covid-19-cdc-budget-cuts-us-trump/

You’re link states global support = providing experts worldwide which you part as world leadership and as a necessity to “ save the world “ . The gold std in pandemic response so to speak in inference.

Why would you argue this when others are going above and beyond? Why do you think americas contribution is exceptional and necessary over others?

https://www.europeanceo.com/home/featured/how-cubas-doctors-are-helping-the-world-fight-covid-19/

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/cuba-sends-white-coat-army-doctors-fight-coronavirus-different-countries-n1240028

https://atalayar.com/en/content/cuba-sends-health-aid-15-countries-fight-coronavirus

https://www.thenation.com/article/world/cuba-doctors-covid-19/