Bernie is trying to defeat the establishment corruption from the outside. I am pretty sure that he will not succeed. Thus we are left with a system that is corrupt. Within that system we will or will not have an impact on just how far that corruption goes. If we choose those who profess a myriad of false narratives (e.g., the voter fraud narrative, Corporations are people, trickle down economics floats all boats, tax breaks for the wealthy is best for our society, private entities are always superior to public ones, socialist programs inevitably lead to tyrannical communism, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc...) that WOULD be worse, IMO.
...Tim I'm far to the left of Bernie in my ideology.
So when you focus only on the narrative of the GOP as an active degradation(which it is)
and neglect admission of the Dems as a passive degradation, it bristles me. As you already know.
Like I stated before, in some ways this makes me more disgusted. Because obviously that's what the GOP narrative is supposed to be.
They're doing their job.
The Dems are supposed to represent the people. The working class. The downtrodden.
And it is woefully inexcusable that they have not done a better job on getting the narrative.
But that's coming from me. And my ideology. If someone is a Democrat, then yeah, there gonna be positive about the Dems.
Oh they're trying! Fight the good fight!!! Yaaaay!
Better Hillary than a GOP.
Hillary is the worse joke in the election. She is an impostor. She is bought and paid for.
The same establishment that wants Trump or Bernie out..wants Hillary in. Or Rubio. Or Bush.
It's the same. That establishment's money spends just as good in both directions.
Now here's a big Smiley for you :-) . Because I don't want to revisit this argument with you. It's ideological.
I don't recognize the power of emoticons to end a discussion. If you don't want to argue, you don't have to.
If in your ideology there exists a better and workable system, perhaps you could explain what that is, and how we might get from here to there without a complete breakdown of society, first, and the real probability of some worse system emerging instead.
No. I am pretty sure that he will not succeed, because the current system is weighted against him succeeding and because he will probably not be able to marshal enough supporters to overcome this and gain the nomination. If he does, he may very well lose the general election (without full support of the current system and maybe not even then). In the unlikely event that he wins both the nomination and the general election, he very well may not have enough support in Congress to effectively press forth his agenda. And he can't count on his supporters during the campaign to continue to press for his agenda after he is elected because people lose their intense motivation, become politically tired, &/or just have too much other stuff they would rather do.
But that didn't stop me from voting for him, as a way of fighting the system from the inside. How do you fight it from the outside?
(I suppose you could encourage the development of more corruption, until the system breaks down completely, and then hope that something better emerges from that, but it probably wouldn't, not anytime soon, and not without a lot of horrible events in the meantime.)
This isn't like you Tim. Alot of negativity in there.
There's ways Bernie could effect change. He already has. He is doing it right now.
Just remember your gonna have alot of "I voted for Bernie" stickers.
1 piece at a time. That's all we can get.
This cycle is huge. On both sides. Trump is cracking molds too. Really.
There's going to be alot of disaffected voters if this goes the normal route. On both sides.
And I see it as a referendum on bringing both of those sides together. Despite all the rancor and garbage Trump spews.
There's a commonality there too.(believe it!) It could be germinating...no it is germinating!
It's like I have always said...if both sides of the people realized they wanted basically the same thing, the people would be unstoppable.
I think you have a bad case of Voters Remorse. You'll get better. I'm voting for Bernie too. I've given Act Blue a good chunk of my dough.
No voters remorse, here. I am proud to have voted for Bernie. Why else would I be broadcasting it? I am not being any more negative or positive, than usual. I am being true to reality, as I see it, as usual. I am glad that you have some optimism, because that is better, IMO, than just perpetually putting down the system, without suggesting a positive way forward.
Unfortunately, I think that your optimism about the commonality of masses on both sides, germinating into a force that will come together and repair the system, is way overblown. But, keep hope alive, and carry on.
If in your ideology there exists a better and workable system, perhaps you could explain what that is, and how we might get from here to there without a complete breakdown of society, first, and the real probability of some worse system emerging instead.
My ideology won't happen. But that doesn't stop it from being my ideology. I don't settle for democracy-lite.
It's not a mystery ideology...it would just be a Social-Democracy. It would be more to the left of what Sanders could or would want.
But he's fine. That's enough.
There isn't gonna be a breakdown. Unless it's war. There's always that possibility.
As far as a worse system....no way! This is it. This is as crappy as it gets.
This cycle clearly shows that the people are fed up with the BS.
So at the very worst, the "normal" stays in power and we go on like this.
Unfortunately, I think that your optimism about the commonality of masses on both sides, germinating into a force that will come together and repair the system, is way overblown. But, keep hope alive, and carry on.
Oh no. That's a normal course of action many times. It just takes the right leader.
The right leader, with the majority of the people behind him/her could steamroll anything.
People just need to see through the divide and conquer techniques. That's all we have going on in this country.
Divide and conquer. Keep the people divided and infighting, they don't see the real dog biting them in the ass.
If in your ideology there exists a better and workable system, perhaps you could explain what that is, and how we might get from here to there without a complete breakdown of society, first, and the real probability of some worse system emerging instead.
My ideology won't happen. But that doesn't stop it from being my ideology. I don't settle for democracy-lite.
It's not a mystery ideology...it would just be a Social-Democracy. It would be more to the left of what Sanders could or would want.
But he's fine. That's enough.
There isn't gonna be a breakdown. Unless it's war. There's always that possibility.
As far as a worse system....no way! This is it. This is as crappy as it gets.
This cycle clearly shows that the people are fed up with the BS.
So at the very worst, the "normal" stays in power and we go on like this.
I think that it CAN get MUCH crappier, and that it very likely will, if the Repubs continue to gain more power.
Imagine a President Ted Cruz with a Republican House and Senate and a SCOTUS stacked 7-2 sometime in the next few years. (That probably won't happen, but it is within the realm of possibility. If it does happen, there will be nothing left to do, other than:
Blame Canada!)
Unfortunately, I think that your optimism about the commonality of masses on both sides, germinating into a force that will come together and repair the system, is way overblown. But, keep hope alive, and carry on.
Oh no. That's a normal course of action many times. It just takes the right leader.
The right leader, with the majority of the people behind him/her could steamroll anything.
People just need to see through the divide and conquer techniques. That's all we have going on in this country.
Divide and conquer. Keep the people divided and infighting, they don't see the real dog biting them in the ass.
Your phrase "divide and conquer techniques", suggests that there is some organized entity using and directing this division and conquering in some conscious fashion. Do you see the two parties purposely and consciously (and covertly) joining together to orchestrate this? Or do you think that there is some conglomeration of oligarchs (perhaps comprised of individuals and/or corporate interests) who are purposefully orchestrating this division and conquering?
I think that we certainly are divided, moreso than, perhaps since the Civil War and that we are suffering from that division. But I don't see it being purposefully orchestrated.
Also, I don't see "the right leader", that can help us overcome the divisions, anywhere on the horizon. I wish Bernie the best, but when he does not gain the nomination, I will still be hoping for a best way forward, until such a leader comes along (even though it may not be in my lifetime). Because, unlike you, I think that crappy can always get crappier. And I prefer crappy to crappier.
Your phrase "divide and conquer techniques", suggests that there is some organized entity using and directing this division and conquering in some conscious fashion. Do you see the two parties purposely and consciously (and covertly) joining together to orchestrate this? Or do you think that there is some conglomeration of oligarchs (perhaps comprised of individuals and/or corporate interests) who are purposefully orchestrating this division and conquering?
No, I'm not suggesting anything like that.
I'm suggesting that politicians and power structures can get along just fine with the country divided the way it is.
Obviously, politicians can reap the harvest of division...it's all over our politics. That defines our politics.
Obviously politicians, news orgs, culture, etc etc stoke the fire of division. Which through mainly natural processes can be accomplished quite easily.
Natural processes being greed, hatred, cultural similarities or differences, to name a few.
So we know there is division. We know this division is helped along. And we know that politicians and bosses can benefit from it in various ways.
Bureaucracies(charter school thread) of various sorts thrive in it. Marketing thrives in it(Apple I Phone thread). Corporations thrive in it.(right to work for example). Politicians platform on it.
The list goes on...it's not one big unified, orchestrated thing. It's just fed, and nurtured to suit a host of various designs.
The end question is this...could a leader come along and heal these divisions? Yes/no? What would they be up against?
Obviously something. Most people agree it's not good. So why isn't it fixed? No real impetus..that's why.
Your phrase "divide and conquer techniques", suggests that there is some organized entity using and directing this division and conquering in some conscious fashion. Do you see the two parties purposely and consciously (and covertly) joining together to orchestrate this? Or do you think that there is some conglomeration of oligarchs (perhaps comprised of individuals and/or corporate interests) who are purposefully orchestrating this division and conquering?
No, I'm not suggesting anything like that.
I'm suggesting that politicians and power structures can get along just fine with the country divided the way it is.
Obviously, politicians can reap the harvest of division...it's all over our politics. That defines our politics.
Obviously politicians, news orgs, culture, etc etc stoke the fire of division. Which through mainly natural processes can be accomplished quite easily.
Natural processes being greed, hatred, cultural similarities or differences, to name a few.
So we know there is division. We know this division is helped along. And we know that politicians and bosses can benefit from it in various ways.
Bureaucracies(charter school thread) of various sorts thrive in it. Marketing thrives in it(Apple I Phone thread). Corporations thrive in it.(right to work for example). Politicians platform on it.
The list goes on...it's not one big unified, orchestrated thing. It's just fed, and nurtured to suit a host of various designs.
Then I have no argument with that analysis.