Only 20 generations have known the scientific revolution

Politics and Social Issues
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This is a podcast that discusses how some brains end up voting for Trump, which discusses an article from 2022, that I also link. I like the podcast intro, but absorb them however you want. I’ve posted this on a couple platforms. It will be interested to see the feedback.

This short podcast discusses an article that I link below. It’s a look into what shapes our behavior, our history, our biology. It also gave me a way to look at my behavior and consider that if others are shaped by their environment as I was, then maybe I should have some compassion for everyone and their stories.

This article, from two years ago but not out of date, is written from a liberal perspective, but I think you can replace “Trump” with any Democrat you don’t like, and the conclusions come out the same. It takes an honest and hard look at the question that is in the title. Issues and policies are mentioned, but the heart of the answer is in our humanity. The use of terms like “racist” are there only to bring to the surface the values and emotions that lie beneath. Give it a chance, it’s worth the ten minutes.

He speaks to his “unearned advantages”. He recognizes his privilege, but wonders what role his history played in seeing it that way in the first place. All of us can ask, “who would we be if not for a few different circumstances or different inspirations in our lives?” Our brains are the same as our ancestors from 500 generations ago when we were just figuring out how to plant wheat, so what makes what we are?

If you are a Trump supporter, then this article is not addressed to you, but the questions he asks are the same for everyone. Was it the safety of his childhood that formed his values? Was it his education? What direction did that education push him in? At points he assumes some cause and effect that I’m not sure is correct, that’s up to you to decide. I’m not recommending this article as a formula for turning people into liberals.

He says, “If I swapped my genes, my temperament, my upbringing, my education, and my experiences for those of the most die-hard Trump supporter in my family, I would have supported Trump.”

His answer, or at least his idea, is equality. In matters that affect everyone, everyone’s voice should be heard and considered. How we parent, building attachments across generations, driving out fear with knowledge, and encouraging self-reliance. How well we do these should lead us to choosing our leaders wisely.

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How would the scientific revolution even shape our behavior? It’s hard to imagine that happening other than far-fetched ideas about changing ourselves into robots or genetic engineering.

Evolution is about only about survival and reproduction. Nothing else. That’s why we behave the way we do. Scientific thinking or critical thinking or whatever we call it has nothing to do with survival and reproduction in any way, so it is never going to shape us.

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I’ve never heard a comment like that before. The survival of a social species depends on cooperation, which requires rational thoughts. Doesn’t it?

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I believe that is too narrow a view.

“Evolution” is about self-organizing complexity. The Universe has evolved from a chaotic state to a partially ordered complex state.

“Natural selection” is a passive selective process about survival and reproduction in biology. Better adaption to the environment creates better survival chances.

This is why the complete Title of Darwin’s book is called:

“On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favored Races in the Struggle for Life”

With the development of the modern evolutionary synthesis in the 1930s and 1940s, Darwin’s concept of evolutionary adaptation through natural selection became central to modern evolutionary theory, and it has now become the unifying concept of the [life sciences](List of life sciences - Wikipedia).

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I would say, oneguy has not defined “survival”. When I was working my way out of magical reasons for existence and addressing arguments like CS Lewis and his argument for ethics, I realized that survival is the basic drive for everything, but I didn’t like that answer, even though it was impossible to refute it.

Basic elements don’t have “drives” like complex animals do. But, hydrogen survived the early universe. Gravity doesn’t desire pulling things together, it just does it, and it caused black holes, stars, planets, galaxies, water, and more. The things on those planets, without thinking, started moving and developing spots that detected light. Then there are all those “missing links”, but you get the idea. Survival.

If I got up each day and checked my retaining wall and practiced shooting things with my arsenal, I would agree with that one guy. But there are obviously other ways to survive. My caring and nurturing of other beings like me, and of the things that nurture me, like, you know, food, air, water, are why I can sit here in my warm home on a snowy day and write this post.

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I agree.

Hence my take that the entire process is passively selective.
Something like: “Last man standing”. But that only applies to the compettive side of the equation.

I like the concept of symbiotic relationships such as exist in the human microbiome.

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Where does that assumption come from?

That’s roughly 12,500 years if we use the 25 year average.

In what regard are they the same? After all we’ve learned that our individual brains are quite malleable, … because it is always interacting and learning and changing to accommodate changing conditions.

It’s an over simplification of the type that churns my belly.

Our interactions and our experiences and how our body reacts and processes those challenges as they arise, and what we learn to guide future decisions.

Here’s a peak into the malleable brain business, though it gets complicated in a hurry.

J Anat. 2008 Apr;212(4):426–454. doi: 10.1111/j.1469-7580.2008.00868.x

A natural history of the human mind: tracing evolutionary changes in brain and cognition

Chet C Sherwood, Francys Subiaul, Tadeusz W Zawidzki

However, modern human-specific traits have been described at many different levels of neural organization, including gross brain size, the relative extent of neocortical areas, asymmetry, developmental patterning, the distribution of cell types, histology, and gene expression. >
Thus, while increased brain size, comprising mostly growth of the neocortex (Finlay & Darlington, 1995), undoubtedly has been central to the evolution of modern human cognition, other modifications to brain development, structure, and function are also certain to be significant.

Furthermore, explaining modern human behavioral distinctiveness simply as a secondary byproduct of brain enlargement leaves unanswered fundamental questions regarding the computational substrates of our species-specific behavioral capacities (Holloway, 1968). Does it even make sense to ask how many ‘extra’ grams of neocortical tissue are necessary for the development of recursive syntax, pair-bondedness, or ‘theory of mind’?

Indeed, abundant data from the neurosciences show that changes in structural modularity and connectivity interact with variation in molecular and neurochemical signaling to determine brain function.

Subtle modifications in neural microstructure and gene expression can have a significant impact on behavior, even in the absence of large-scale changes in the size of brain parts (e.g. Hammock & Young, 2005). Evolutionary processes, therefore, can mold behavioral phenotypes using a host of strategies.

In this context, the aim of this article is to examine how changes in brain anatomy and physiology articulate with unique aspects of modern human cognition. …

So if I had contempt for the Law, US Constitution and our government, and I were so p’ed I wanted to burn it all down - because my self interest matters more than anything else.
I’d be the same as MAGA?

Great, so what does that knowledge do for us, other than add a layer of utter hopelessness toward our future?

Equality between sociopathic behavior, and rule of law mentality. There’s an interest challenge.
Oh yeah, we normalize everything, no critic, no standards to strive for, never ever weigh or judge anything. Truth is what you want it to be and honesty is a lost concept.

That’s where that mentality has taken us.

Doubt is their product and man o’man did they sell it well.

Oh, or there’s this conception

Spoken like a true instinct driven biological animal.

So much for the conceit of being God’s child.

By helping us understand who we are, evolved biological creatures, produced by Earth’s processes, and living within her cornucopia: and helping us find peace within the knowledge of our inevitable return to nothingness. I am an element in the pageant of Earth’s Evolution - and it is good.

By helping us understand the greater world around us that created us in the first place.
By providing an inner foundation that the self-created Gods in our minds, can’t get close to touching. Why, you ask? Because those “Gods” are simply echo’s of our Ego and desires.

It’s nice to end this with a laugh. You make me think of my process of strategic passivity when it came to courting, but guess I won’t get into that.

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It’s science. If it bothers you, show me some other science.

Isn’t that what I said?

That’s your problem. Recognizing human limitations leads to hopelessness for you. There is no logical reason for the conclusion of hopelessness. Logic won’t fix your feelings either, but in answer to your question, that knowledge causes different reactions in different people, so it’s not a simple answer. For me, it leads to compassion because I know I am not always right, so I am forgiving of others when they are wrong.

Are you familiar with the Declaration of Independence? It says we are equal, but does not say “no critic, no standards”. That’s you doing that.

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Specially not when facts on the ground speak for themselves.

Yeah, when a study and the numbers says one thing, other’s don’t have the right to lie about those facts and figures. Yeah, that’s me doing that.

I have no idea what you are on about. I am upset at the blatant disconnect with physical realities of this material Earth we depend on. And the acceptance of malicious misrepresentation. You apparently don’t think such things are an issue, or at least not one to be brought up in polite company. (or you wouldn’t be giving me such a hard time.)

I’ll never accept a criminal con artist - one that knows no boundaries, no honor, no decency, as just another misunderstood dude. So don’t expect me to trust anything from MAGA, they have shown themselves to be bullies and vandals, with some ruthlessly vicious plans for destroying American institutions, that our society depends on - that’s not a foundation for civil society, so why pretend?

You want to play nice discussions and we all have our pain, and, and, whatever, I’m okay, you’re okay, and there’s nothing different about MAGA from anything else in American history,
and today is no different from any other day in the past centuries and more.

Oh and I’m the one with no standards?
Our Constitution was dependent on certain degree of mutual respect and standards of dignity and pride, truthful, faith in certain ideals. MAGA wants to tear that down, read 2025.

Stop bashing me, how about Gingrich and the hateful ball he started rolling . . . or about the strategic liars from the start at FOX faux news networks, meant as propaganda from day one? And so on?

I’ve sporadically listened to local Christian Radio for years and have been shocked and terrified at the outright, prideful, rageful, over the top fabricated hatred and distrust that they project towards secular people. But all that gets a free pass. :zipper_mouth_face:

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If you want to do something constructive with talk,
how about talking about how our God’s are created from within ourselves?

That our Gods belong to the meta-physical realm, and that Earth and biology and time operates under their own materialistic rules of nature, and that it is okay like that.

We are evolved beings, Earth’s biology creates our body, brain, which in turn creates our thoughts, and dreams, and gods and demons and strategies for dealing with all that, so we can focus on getting on with our day to days in an unforgiving world.

I believe that could have positive dividends on a personal level for some.

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The feeling is mutual. How you got from saying treating people equally is the same as saying we don’t need rules to billionaires ripping us off, no idea.

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You keep trying to add curve balls and complications, while I’d rather get down to the fundamentals.

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I thought you were doing that.

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We survived for tens of thousands of years before the scientific revolution. That says it all.

Seems like overthinking. The traits that help us survive and reproduce are the ones that get passed down to the next generations. We don’t need any more complexity to do that.

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None of that matters at all. The proof is the fact that billions of humans have survived and spread their genes for millennia without caring about that. It’s just not necessary.

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You are missing the point. It is not just traits that get passed down. Of all the mutations that get passed down , a few produce “better” (vision, hearing, smell, speed) genetic traits that get passed down via the greater gene pool.

That is why and how humans split from our common ancestor with other great apes. Normally evolution happens in very small increments, that are beneficial to the survival of the organism in some minor way, which is then spread among the greater gene pool of that species.

And usually, major mutations due to faulty copying of the DNA are detrimental and affect the survival rate in a negative way and do not affec the greater gene pool.

But occasionally a major mutation produces a beneficial “leap” in a species and that may result in the emergence of a new better adapted species, which then also enters the gene pool and spreads exponentially among the population, sometimes resulting in a new but related species.
Witness Darwin’s Finches.

And it appears that the human species was produced by one such major beneficial genetic mutation.

It was the fusion of 2 ancestral hominid chromosomes that produced a single double sized chromosome in humans which was responsible for the enormous increase in brain size and complexity in humans .

This split is clearly apparent in Chimps and Gorillas who are very comfortable in their jungle environment, whereas humans are building cities and drive automobiles.

Human Chromosome 2 is a fusion of two ancestral chromosomes

All great apes apart from man have 24 pairs of chromosomes. There is therefore a hypothesis that the common ancestor of all great apes had 24 pairs of chromosomes and that the fusion of two of the ancestor’s chromosomes created chromosome 2 in humans. The evidence for this hypothesis is very strong.

(http://www.evolutionpages.com/images/hum_ape_chrom_2.gif)

Let us re-iterate what we find on human chromosome 2. Its centromere is at the same place as the chimpanzee chromosome 2p as determined by sequence similarity. Even more telling is the fact that on the 2q arm of the human chromosome 2 is the unmistakable remains of the original chromosome centromere of the common ancestor of human and chimp 2q chromosome, at the same position as the chimp 2q centromere (this structure in humans no longer acts as a centromere for chromosome 2.

Conclusion
The evidence that human chromosome 2 is a fusion of two of the common ancestor’s chromosomes is overwhelming.

Clearly the human brain is far more complicated that the brains of other great apes, whereas most great apes are physically stronger than humans, due to their gradual evolution of efficient adaptations for jungle life.

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The helpful mutations are traits.

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Not the one that fused 2 chromosomes into one single much larger chromosome.

Traits are the product of growth codes in the DNA.

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Good point but it’s not "all’

Well… There were also some close calls in there, when we almost went extinct. Science gave us a way out of the Malthusian cycle, prevent diseases, even escape the planet. Now, will we use science to kill ourselves in some other way? Could happen. Which I guess would make you right in the end. For now, I say our odds have improved for lasting a few hundred thousand more years at least

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Well you are correct nothing matters at all.
We are biological creatures, we live we die, our constituents go back into Earth.

But, some of us have noticed, we are humans, we have special minds which open all sorts of new possibilities that the regular hoi polloi brutes are utterly oblivious to. We have potential to be more.

One a big scale it turned out to be wasted potential since we never managed to get past our self-absorption and self-serving nature, which you do a wonderful job of demonstrating in action. Only our little world matters to us. Still, there are some of us, (way fewer than I could have ever imagined, but there are some), who know there’s more going on then satisfying our Ego and gluttony.

Oh well, I’ll continue witnessing, and I’ll cry my tears and drain my emotions, and get on with getting on, being the sound of one hand clapping as the terrors keep building. At least I know what I want to be present to, and it is good.

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