Again you guys are missing the mark here.
The problem is that I worry about it being true especially when I read stuff like this: https://www.quora.com/Is-Buddhism-true
Even today I noticed that I was willing to root through my entire history to find the article where this line from it just buzzed in my head about “if buddhism wasn’t true then we would be right to worry” or something like that I don’t remember the rest but I knew that the ghist of it was that it said buddhism is true because the stuff that they mentioned if it wasn’t true isn’t so, but I can’t be sure and I can’t find the article or anything like that. But it just feels like I NEED to know in order to move on with my life, of course I said the same thing about every other article and line in my head.
Why did you post that here? Are you looking for a response?
Mostly looking for assurance that such a claim is wrong, or that I don’t have to dig through everything again just to pull it up and repeat the same cycle of abuse I do to myself.
There are several good, nuanced answers on the quora link. Just what I would expect.
Again you guys are missing the mark here.That's how you see it, but here's what we all know, in your words:
But it just feels like I NEED to know in order to move on with my life, of course I said the same thing about every other article and line in my head.That's what you need to deal with, not some answer about Buddhism that doesn't exist.
I wish it was that easy.
This approach has a lot in common with science, but in scientific research, all that matters is to have a good intellectual understanding. Which of course is very important, but is that all there is to it?It’s the difference between knowing intellectually what suffering is and actually experiencing suffering. Or knowing intellectually that some people experience wonder when they look at the stars, or a flower, or whatever it is, and actually experiencing that wonder, and letting it really hit you. It’s the same also with philosophy, academic philosophy is a bit like Buddhism in some ways but without this idea that it makes any difference to see the truths directly.
So for instance, to really understand that things change, let it soak into your very being, then there are many understandings come from that. Actually New Year is a great time to think about impermanence, because it is all about the start of a new year, fresh starts. Every moment can be a fresh start. Just intellectually understanding that things change is not like that.
Much of the Buddhist path consists of taking truths that we can all see quite easily, such as those ones, and then really and truly internalizing them. Wisdom comes from that. Then finally - according to the teachings anyway - they say that there are truths that you can see directly in the same way that are impossible to understand intellectually, your intellectual understanding is such a pale shadow of them, it’s like the finger pointing at the Moon.
Science is very open to change. Even a single experiment (e.g. a single observation of changed positions of stars when close to the Sun) can overturn a theory that has been held for centuries. That’s something it has in common with Buddhism. So science also has this connection with truth and you can let it soak in and learn a lot in that way through the truths of science just as for Buddhism. Some scientists like Richard Feynmann make science an open path of discovery and truth, that they engage in with all their being rather than just intellectually, and when they do that, it’s not unlike the Buddhist path.
So, it’s more that it’s so often not treated as an important thing to understand the truths of science in that way. There are lots of connections and parallels and similarities there. It’s more to do with how science is used and taught.
The main thing about the Buddhist path is that all the way through, it is based on things you can see directly for yourself. You don’t need to put your ideas on what suffering is through a scientific peer review to understand it. You know yourself what it is, an understanding that no amount of explanations in scientific papers could give you.
It is in this sense that the Buddhist path is based on truths that you can see for yourself. Others also see these truths directly. They don’t have to be Buddhists, as they are truths that are there for everyone to see, directly. And - it is possible to share that understanding. It’s not only done by intellectual arguments although sometimes intellectual discussions are used to point in that direction. It’s sometimes done through symbols, actions, just doing things, and in many ways. When a Zen Buddhist shares a koan, it’s to do with communicating truths in this way.
Another thing that’s like this, which we can probably all connect to. Someone may show through a simple act of compassion, in seconds, some inspiration of compassion, which they could never do with even hours or weeks of lectures on compassion. Whether scientific truth can ever explain what is going on there, I don’t know. But it’s truths like that, seeing directly the truth of suffering, the truth of compassion, the truth of the changing nature of everything, the fresh start in every moment, in a way that really hits home - that’s what the Buddhist path is all about.
It’s mostly to do with quotes like this that hold me back because they appear to explain everything so neatly and make it true. But I don’t really think Buddhism is a science. If it were then it would include the people who got worse after the practice or note those it didn’t impact, rather instead I tend to see it blame the person and not the method. Also what I can conclude from Buddhist practice is that doing it yields a certain result but not that said result is the truth or what is going on. We know that the experiences from meditation are just alterations in the brain, similar to drug effects and we don’t claim those to be insights (well some do).
So even if the guy says Buddhism is like a science, I don’t think so. It’s more like they lead you to a conclusion, which isn’t science.
What would be the consequences if you were wrong?
That I would have to follow everything that Buddhism says and it would involve losing things I love to do and like, losing my “self”, treating loneliness as some kind of disease to be cured, among many others. I don’t understand how people can read the same things I see about Buddhism and let it go,I really don’t. I know they do and I’ve tried but the compulsion is so strong and it feels like I’m MISSING SOMETHING that is absolutely crucial and necessary. But that was the same with other things I tried to let go, and eventually I caved and the cycle repeats.
What if you only had 8 hrs left to live? Would you be concerned about that stuff? Would you still be trying to decide whether Buddhism is best for you? Still trying to figure out some possibly missing and critical information?
Yes, yes I would.
Wow that sux. How about, instead, you get a dutch chocolate ice cream cone. Or maybe 1 dip each of 2 of the following: Mint chocolate chip, butter pecan, &/or dutch chocolate.
But that was the same with other things I tried to let go, and eventually I caved and the cycle repeats.This was one of the things I asked you about ... whether you have had things stick in your brain in the past, the way Buddhism does now. And from this, I infer that you have.
You see, Xain, this:
I don’t understand how people can read the same things I see about Christian salvation and let it go, I really don’t. I know they do and I’ve tried but the compulsion is so strong... is a sentence I could have written myself a few years ago. In fact, I spent so many hours on so many online forums seeking some sort of reassurance, I probably DID write that sentence -- more than once! I saw everyone else in the world was just going about their lives, unconcerned about it... and I was flabbergasted by that.
But you’ve told me several times that I’m totally wrong and don’t understand you at all. So I guess there is nothing more I can say. A suggestion for you to just forget about this and go have some ice cream is probably more helpful than anything I could tell you. I’m sorry for being so arrogant.
Hey, I was the arrogant SOB that suggested the ice cream. Later, I thought, oh jeebus, I hope he is not diabetic.
I knew that you were the SOB. But of course, if he has only 8 hours to live anyway, the diabetes wouldn’t matter.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
Ice cream doesn’t work and my hobbies don’t either because this stuff ruins them. With ice cream I can’t stop thinking about it, and what I read tend to bleed into the hobbies and ruins them. I know buddhism said that the enjoyment I have of things is all in my head and not because of any “essence” that the object has, and that hurt a lot because it’s like saying me liking things was imaginary (because if there was something about the thing I liked then everyone would react that way). I lost a lot of magic that I want to get back, but I also want to be right and apparently Buddhism says that to do that I have to let go of my judgments, opinions, and values. I want to be right but also happy, but I don’t want to live a lie and see a clouded world.
I just don’t know what to do. I’ve tried to let it go, but it’s the same with other things. In my mind it feels like I need to know and that when I say no to something it’s just confirmation bias. I know it was the same with every new thing I read, which makes it hard for me to read and learn new things because I tend to be a runaway train with them until a new disaster comes.
Coupled with the belief that because someone believes in something there must be some truth to it, especially if it has impacted their life in a measurable way. And I cave instantly if someone else doesn’t agree with me, it’s like I am automatically wrong. I just feel like I don’t have the tools I need to navigate life.
Dammit. That all sounds pretty crappy. I hope you can start feeling better, somehow.
Coupled with the belief that because someone believes in something there must be some truth to it, especially if it has impacted their life in a measurable way. And I cave instantly if someone else doesn’t agree with me, it’s like I am automatically wrong. I just feel like I don’t have the tools I need to navigate life.I know logic is not really at play here, but you do form logical progressions, they just kind of always loop around back to where you started. This idea of you caving is not my experience. In fact you stay pretty steady with what you start out with, rejecting every suggestion that you might be "wrong". I try to avoid language like that when someone asks for life advice because you can't really be wrong, it's what's right for you that matters. At least you are stuck on Buddhism, you could have made much worse choices for something to be obsessed with. If "impacted their life in a measurable way" is actually something you are paying attention to, you should be able to go back and find some pretty decent stories of success in these threads. Also podcasts like "Everyone's Agnostic" have guests on all the time who changed their life and are happier now. Could be some therapy for you.