@thatoneguy No, I wouldn’t call it speculation entirely. It is true that police do not actively look for someone who has a warrant. If they make a stop and it pops up one has a warrant, then that is when they make an arrest, but they don’t hunt them down. They also do not always have 100% guns drawn just because it’s a felony warrant either.
True, but guns are drawn at their discretion and it’s better to be safe than sorry.
Potter is charged with 2nd degree manslaughter.I agree with that.
Can’t say I disagree. It seem just given the circumstances.
This is speculation. -- oneguyGreat non-answer. Which part is speculation? That they did nothing? Perhaps, but I have heard anything they did do. What we know is, they pulled him over and immediately found the warrant. That means they had his info.
You did not address the conflict in the two sets of facts.
True, but guns are drawn at their discretion and it’s better to be safe than sorry. -- oneguyDo you want to rethink that one? The woman who drew her gun did not use it safely, and is indeed sorry. Or are you saying that shooting a 20 year old man is better than giving him a chance to be a productive adult? Because, what, he might not have been a good person, he might not have done restitution for his offense? He might not have been found not guilty?
I’m saying it’s better to kill the suspect if need be than be killed by the suspect.
Who says the police have to kill anyone, unless they are being shot at, of course. There was no reason to even taser the man and thus she was right to resign and the verdict was correct. No had or has to die in such situations.
I’m saying it’s better to kill the suspect if need be than be killed by the suspect. -- oneguyThank you for stating that so directly. It's something almost no one in the world would disagree with. It's why we don't hire Jainists as police. The right of self defense is a right common to every successful civilization I've heard of.
Now, show me how that cop was in danger of being killed. Show me any of the shootings from the last couple years where the cop was in danger. You will probably be able to find one or two. That doesn’t erase the problem with all of the others.
Here’s another way to look at it. Something I’m going to start asking anyone who is excusing these murders by police. What action by an officer would make you question that officer’s ability to do policing? What actions would add up to making you question how policing functions and how it is managed?
Thank you for stating that so directly. It’s something almost no one in the world would disagree with. It’s why we don’t hire Jainists as police. The right of self defense is a right common to every successful civilization I’ve heard of.Now, show me how that cop was in danger of being killed. Show me any of the shootings from the last couple years where the cop was in danger. You will probably be able to find one or two. That doesn’t erase the problem with all of the others.
I never said Potter was 100% in danger of being killed. She was going to taze him because he was resisting arrest and reaching into his car — which is understandable on her part, but mistakenly pulled her gun. There was some potential risk of death in the situation but her negligence made things worse.
Here’s another way to look at it. Something I’m going to start asking anyone who is excusing these murders by police. What action by an officer would make you question that officer’s ability to do policing? What actions would add up to making you question how policing functions and how it is managed?The only thing that would immediately make me question a cop's ability to police would be if they started killing randomly. Everything else is too complex.
Another thing would be drug addiction.
The only thing that would immediately make me question a cop’s ability to police would be if they started killing randomly. Everything else is too complex.I hope you mean, when they start killing when there is no need to use deadly force. I can see the police woman mistaking her gun for a taser (sheer panic), and killing someone accidently. She warned her fellow officers to stand clear by yelling "taser", "taser". and then "I shot him" after realizing she had drawn her pistol.
But to dig your knee down for some 3 additional minutes after the person is handcuffed, subdued, and totally motionless , is just plain murder, IMO.
To me that scene looked more like a hunters trophy shot than an honest effort to place someone under arrest. In fact that did not look like a random killing, on the contrary, it looked like a selective killing.
btw, the victim did not like he was about to die when he was walking to his car. A person in perfect health would have died after being deprived of oxygen for 9 minutes…
If the oxygen supply is interrupted, consciousness will be lost within 15 seconds while brain cells will slowly start to die after 4 to 5 minutes of oxygen deprivation.Jul 15, 2020https://www.hamiltonlawyers.com/how-long-can-your-brain-go-without-oxygen/#
Everything else is too complex. -- oneguySo you just disqualified yourself from any position of oversight for policing. But, apparently you trust selected people who are currently are in those positions. How do you know which police chiefs are doing their job?
I never said Potter was 100% in danger of being killed. -- oneguyAnd I never said no cop was ever in danger of being killed. I asked for examples of that danger in the set of people killed on video in the last few years. You defended one. Last time I asked you to do this, I linked to a list. You said you looked at a few and made a comment on only a couple. It doesn't seem like you really want to face the data.
What action by an officer would make you question that officer’s ability to do policing? What actions would add up to making you question how policing functions and how it is managed?12 yr old Tamir Rice was shot by officer Timothy Loehmann in 2014.
Loehmann was eventually fired from the department in May 2017; not for his role in the shooting, but for lying on a portion of his hiring application. Officer Frank Garmback, who drove the police cruiser with Loehmann to the scene, served a suspension for his role in the incident.
There were also other back-stories about Loehmann bouncing from city to city because he couldn’t keep a job, getting in trouble, incompetence, etc. I forget all the details. The Cleveland Police (and probably plenty of others) didn’t do an adequate background check.
A few years later word got out he was trying to get another police job in another city and social media pounced on him. With any luck he is at most an unarmed “guard” at a Sam’s Club.
Another thing would be drug addiction.
Doesn’t mean the police have to kill the person. Just because they are on drugs doesn’t mean they are garbage. There is someone who still loves and cares about them, such as their mama.
I made a quick list on a facebook post just now, some friends were discussing how they choose to put the taser on the non-dominant side to avoid error. I realized there are things that have been discussed by entire life about trying to avoid killing innocent people.
Or we could reduce the number of situations that are potentially dangerous by not yelling conflicting orders at people, not making pretext stops, spending more time getting know the people who are potential criminals, eliminating stupid things like marijuana laws. This is the short list. Get going on these things already. We know they literally targeted certain populations in the " drug war". End that crapThis list could go on for a long time. A small group of people changed how we review convictions on death row and started finding many innocent people, leading to almost the end of capital punishment. Almost everyone is talking about mental illness now, many just giving lip service, but it's better than calling people "evil". The story of how the NRA went from supporting gun legislation to preventing anything that even sounded like it is slowly getting disseminated. Restorative Justice is almost unknown in many places, but it's in the High Schools in a lot of places. Body cams. "Qualified Immunity" was a fairly recent step backwards, which could make it easier to correct. "Defunding the Police" is not my favorite slogan, but I think people are getting the idea that reducing police funding by 5% is pushing these conversations.
There are so many possible fixes, steps that have proven effectiveness. People who dismiss all of them and say “he had a warrant” will hopefully run out of steam.
So you just disqualified yourself from any position of oversight for policing. But, apparently you trust selected people who are currently are in those positions. How do you know which police chiefs are doing their job?Effectiveness of a police department is probably a good enough indication of chiefs doing their job.
And I never said no cop was ever in danger of being killed. I asked for examples of that danger in the set of people killed on video in the last few years. You defended one. Last time I asked you to do this, I linked to a list. You said you looked at a few and made a comment on only a couple. It doesn’t seem like you really want to face the data.I don't remember that but most of the recent killings look unjustified and I never said otherwise. Overall however, most police killings are very justified.
This recent example of Adam Toledo shot by Chicago police several weeks ago is being promoted by media as another example of genocide by White cops.
Chicago officials released to the public on Thursday a graphic body-camera video showing a police officer shooting and killing a 13-year-old boy while he appeared to be raising his hands in an alley more than two weeks ago.The nine-minute video from Eric Stillman’s body camera showed the 34-year-old officer getting out of his squad car and running after Adam Toledo in an alley at 2:30 a.m. on March 29 in Little Village, a Mexican neighborhood on the city’s West Side.
The video then showed Stillman yelling “Stop” to Toledo before he caught up to him and ordered him to show his hands. Toledo appeared to raise his hands right before Stillman fired one shot and then ran to the boy as he fell to the ground.
The Chicago Police Department also released part of the same video on its website on Thursday. The department placed an arrow on a still frame, pointing to what appeared to be a handgun in Toledo’s right hand before Stillman opened fire.
“838 milliseconds between gun shown in hand and single shot,” the police department said in a caption.
Definitely justified. The kid was asking for it. What a shame for Toledo’s family.