A good article. Obama’s Evolving Outrage on Guns | The New Yorker
A friend wrote this:
We have to say: we changed the culture on smoking although it was once unthinkable. And on gay marriage. This must be changed and not of course by legislation which the terrorist NRA blocks but by any verbal defense of guns becoming socially unacceptable. To say you favor gun ownership has got to become as unacceptable as saying the “N word.” We need to start ostracizing people who own guns. We need to do an anti-apartheid type boycott of all retailers and wholesalers who trade in guns. We need to demand that pension funds disinvest in arms manufacturers. We need to demand punitively high taxes on gun and ammunition manufacturers and drive them out of business the way tobacco companies were forced to diversify out of tobacco. We need to pressure corporations not to hold conventions in states with freedom to carry laws. We need to blacklist and picket gun shops, and zone them out of existence. We need to go after ecommerce in guns by prosecuting every tiny failure to document and collect taxes on an interstate basis, and cripple the vendors with red tape. We need to demand and pressure clergymen, just as much as we pressure Muslim preachers to denounce radicalism, to denounce guns and tell people they are instruments of the devil or whatever it takes to get their congregations’ attention.
The only congressional response to last week’s shootings has been a bill to arm army recruiters. In America, black is white, true is false, and insanity is the norm.
I agree, though I’m much less optimistic that any of this will happen given the blockheaded and irrational position on guns of too many people in this country. I’m afraid we’re doomed.
Lois
Its a curious thing to try and examine how the tide of public opinion turns on some of these issues. The media and entertainment industry play a big role in these things, especially when it comes to issues like gay rights. When people are insulated from outside opinions ideas change slowly but when they see well known individuals expressing these ideas and the News shows, talk shows, even sitcoms and other media outlets start to promote a new idea it spreads much more quickly.
Obviously the media has been around forever and ideas about smoking and gay rights have only changed in a dramatic fashion very recently. Some of this may have to do with the democratization of media. Now that everyone has access to social media and other avenues to get the word out a change in attitudes is no longer dependent on the CEO of NBC or CBS who is more worried about producing shows that don’t offend traditional values.
So the question is, how do we turn the tide of public opinion and get the momentum moving against gun ownership. According to this graph the tide may have already begun to turn.
It may be difficult to get the entertainment industry behind this when so much of what they sell revolves around gun violence so my guess is it will have to be a grass roots effort.
I believe that we cannot beat the NRA. It hasn’t happened and there are no signs AFAIK that it can happen. Therefore, I think that it is wasted energy to fight for decreasing the availability of guns for law abiding responsible citizens, with the hope that this will also decrease the availability to criminals and irresponsible people.
I think that we must find ways to enlist the support of the NRA to effect the imposition of policies that will decrease the availability of guns to criminals and irresponsible people.
Its a curious thing to try and examine how the tide of public opinion turns on some of these issues. The media and entertainment industry play a big role in these things, especially when it comes to issues like gay rights. When people are insulated from outside opinions ideas change slowly but when they see well known individuals expressing these ideas and the News shows, talk shows, even sitcoms and other media outlets start to promote a new idea it spreads much more quickly.
Obviously the media has been around forever and ideas about smoking and gay rights have only changed in a dramatic fashion very recently. Some of this may have to do with the democratization of media. Now that everyone has access to social media and other avenues to get the word out a change in attitudes is no longer dependent on the CEO of NBC or CBS who is more worried about producing shows that don't offend traditional values.
So the question is, how do we turn the tide of public opinion and get the momentum moving against gun ownership. According to this graph the tide may have already begun to turn.
It may be difficult to get the entertainment industry behind this when so much of what they sell revolves around gun violence so my guess is it will have to be a grass roots effort.
I hope you're right about the turn. However, I'm not so sure the gun violence in movies is always a strong factor. Most of Western Europe watches the same movies, and they have strong gun laws.
Of course, we're dealing with Americans who may well be more easily swayed by movies and violence than the rest of the world is.
I only meant that it might be helpful if TV and movies portrayed gun ownership as a bad thing but that its unlikely to happen since huns are such a pervassive part of many of those shows
Gun culture is in the blood.
If you are an American, and you're that scared of guns, maybe you should move to Europe.
I assume by "in the blood" you mean cultural. Obviously there is nothing genetic or biological about this paranoia that motivates Americans to own guns at a higher rate than other countries. Culture can change though as the graph above shows.
Gun culture is in the blood.
If you are an American, and you’re that scared of guns, maybe you should move to Europe.
And you own how many guns Mid? No such thing as gun culture in the blood. Most Americans historically didn't even own one and that holds true today despite the pictures of militia type gun nuts "guarding" the recruiting stations.
Cap't Jack
The graph is hard to read. The labels on the x axis are covered with the comment so you can't see what the bars represent.
While I understand the point you're trying to make I don't think this is an entirely fair comparison. There are so many differences between the two societies besides guns. The social issues and crime statistics faced by Scandinavia are not really comparable to what we see in Los Angeles. Still I agree that it seems like its far too easy for an American police officer to access his weapon.
The graph is hard to read. The labels on the x axis are covered with the comment so you can't see what the bars represent.
Countries: Finland (7 shots by the police), Sweden (40), Norway (3), Denmark (49), and then LA (180).
While I understand the point you're trying to make I don't think this is an entirely fair comparison. There are so many differences between the two societies besides guns. The social issues and crime statistics faced by Scandinavia are not really comparable to what we see in Los Angeles.
Of course. It has mainly to do with social injustice and easy access to weapons in the USA. I cannot advice LAPD to take over the Norwegian strategy. But is shows what kind of societies the Scandinavians have: much more atheist than the USA, much more socialist, and still the people are happy and free; so there are not so often situations in which the police feels itself forced to shoot. Republican's hell on earth is paradise for normal people (OK, I exaggerate, but it makes a nice sentence...).
Still I agree that it seems like its far too easy for an American police officer to access his weapon.
Maybe not, it might be necessary. But they should learn not to use it so quickly.
Gun culture is in the blood.
If you are an American, and you're that scared of guns, maybe you should move to Europe.
Do you mean you are not scared of guns? Are you at least scared of them for the sake of your loved ones?
What would you do if faced with a loaded gun pointed at you? Would you just laugh it off and turn your back on the potential shooter? What if it was your kid or another loved child who was being aimed at? Would you laugh it off, feeling no fear whatsoever?
I think anyone who doesn't have sense enough to fear guns should strap on his guns and move to Texas--as far away from civilization as you can get and still be in the United States.
And, please, do not show a further lack of intelligence by trotting out the old bromide, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." People with guns kill people and they kill infinitely more people than they could with any other weapon short of a bomb. And in the US there are millions of people with guns, many of them as crazy and unpredictable as loons.
If you are not afraid of people with guns you are an imbecile.
Gun culture is in the blood.
If you are an American, and you’re that scared of guns, maybe you should move to Europe.
And you own how many guns Mid? No such thing as gun culture in the blood. Most Americans historically didn't even own one and that holds true today despite the pictures of militia type gun nuts "guarding" the recruiting stations.
Cap't Jack
Not only does the majority not own guns they also are in favor of effective gun control, though it's been impossible to get passed because of the NRA, the misinterpreted Second Amendment and general gun idiocy.
Lois
The graph is hard to read. The labels on the x axis are covered with the comment so you can't see what the bars represent.
While I understand the point you're trying to make I don't think this is an entirely fair comparison. There are so many differences between the two societies besides guns. The social issues and crime statistics faced by Scandinavia are not really comparable to what we see in Los Angeles. Still I agree that it seems like its far too easy for an American police officer to access his weapon.
True on both points. But there are fewer crime statistics in Scandinavia, for the most part BECAUSE they have effective gun control.
Gun culture is in the blood.
If you are an American, and you're that scared of guns, maybe you should move to Europe.
Do you mean you are not scared of guns? Are you at least scared of them for the sake of your loved ones?
What would you do if faced with a loaded gun pointed at you? Would you just laugh it off and turn your back on the potential shooter? What if it was your kid or another loved child who was being aimed at? Would you laugh it off, feeling no fear whatsoever?
I think anyone who doesn't have sense enough to fear guns should strap on his guns and move to Texas--as far away from civilization as you can get and still be in the United States.
And, please, do not show a further lack of intelligence by trotting out the old bromide, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." People with guns kill people and they kill infinitely more people than they could with any other weapon short of a bomb. And in the US there are millions of people with guns, many of them as crazy and unpredictable as loons.
If you are not afraid of people with guns you are an imbecile.
Lois, hyperbole won't solve the problems of gun violence in the U.S. I live in that state that you view as 'far away from civilization". If I were afraid of people who own guns, I wouldn't be able to visit some of my best friends. And I am pretty sure that I am not an "imbecile", but then again, if I were an "imbecile" I might not realize it.
Do you mean you are not scared of guns? Are you at least scared of them for the sake of your loved ones?
No. I've been around guns my whole life.
What would you do if faced with a loaded gun pointed at you? Would you just laugh it off and turn your back on the potential shooter? What if it was your kid or another loved child who was being aimed at? Would you laugh it off, feeling no fear whatsoever?
I've had guns pointed at me before.
The way you handle it depends on why the other person is pointing it at you.
And, please, do not show a further lack of intelligence by trotting out the old bromide, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." People with guns kill people and they kill infinitely more people than they could with any other weapon short of a bomb. And in the US there are millions of people with guns, many of them as crazy and unpredictable as loons.
Check this out: Hoplophobia
If you are not afraid of people with guns you are an imbecile.
OK, I'll take being an imbecile over being a neurotic, sheltered suburbanite.
Gun culture is in the blood.
If you are an American, and you're that scared of guns, maybe you should move to Europe.
Do you mean you are not scared of guns? Are you at least scared of them for the sake of your loved ones?
What would you do if faced with a loaded gun pointed at you? Would you just laugh it off and turn your back on the potential shooter? What if it was your kid or another loved child who was being aimed at? Would you laugh it off, feeling no fear whatsoever?
I think anyone who doesn't have sense enough to fear guns should strap on his guns and move to Texas--as far away from civilization as you can get and still be in the United States.
And, please, do not show a further lack of intelligence by trotting out the old bromide, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." People with guns kill people and they kill infinitely more people than they could with any other weapon short of a bomb. And in the US there are millions of people with guns, many of them as crazy and unpredictable as loons.
If you are not afraid of people with guns you are an imbecile.
Lois, hyperbole won't solve the problems of gun violence in the U.S. I live in that state that you view as 'far away from civilization". If I were afraid of people who own guns, I wouldn't be able to visit some of my best friends. And I am pretty sure that I am not an "imbecile", but then again, if I were an "imbecile" I might not realize it.You shouldn't visit them because they're unpredictable loons. Thats why they have guns in the first place. ;-P
Gun culture is in the blood.
If you are an American, and you're that scared of guns, maybe you should move to Europe.
I assume by "in the blood" you mean cultural. Obviously there is nothing genetic or biological about this paranoia that motivates Americans to own guns at a higher rate than other countries. Culture can change though as the graph above shows.Paranoia is biological, but its not paranoia (not for most people, yet) that causes people to own guns, its the fact that guns are fun and useful.
The personality traits which incline a person to find guns appealing are obviously genetically based - as are all personality traits.
Gun culture is in the blood.
If you are an American, and you're that scared of guns, maybe you should move to Europe.
Do you mean you are not scared of guns? Are you at least scared of them for the sake of your loved ones?
What would you do if faced with a loaded gun pointed at you? Would you just laugh it off and turn your back on the potential shooter? What if it was your kid or another loved child who was being aimed at? Would you laugh it off, feeling no fear whatsoever?
I think anyone who doesn't have sense enough to fear guns should strap on his guns and move to Texas--as far away from civilization as you can get and still be in the United States.
And, please, do not show a further lack of intelligence by trotting out the old bromide, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." People with guns kill people and they kill infinitely more people than they could with any other weapon short of a bomb. And in the US there are millions of people with guns, many of them as crazy and unpredictable as loons.
If you are not afraid of people with guns you are an imbecile.
Lois, hyperbole won't solve the problems of gun violence in the U.S. I live in that state that you view as 'far away from civilization". If I were afraid of people who own guns, I wouldn't be able to visit some of my best friends. And I am pretty sure that I am not an "imbecile", but then again, if I were an "imbecile" I might not realize it.
Ok, "imbecile" was hyperbole, but I still think that if you are not at least put off by the guns all around you there is something wrong. You are probably just inured to it, but I think you are fooling yourself. Your attitude can make you careless and vulnerable. I had a friend some years ago who lived in what was considered a bad neighborhood where guns were present. He never expressed any fear about guns, but he was shot and killed while walking near his home. A lone statistic, to be sure, but it was telling to me.
Lois