Minimum Wage

I don’t think there should be a flat-out, across the board, minimum wage per hour. Especially one tied to a “living wage”.

The obvious starting point is that a living wage in one location is certainly not in another. Yes there are “indices” and such, but they could always be argued. Right now, I think they are just statistics, and not used in any official way … are they?

Second - not every job is meant as a career to live on. Not every job is 40 hrs/week x 52 weeks a year to provide a steady income for a stable living for those at the fringes.

For any company that has a labor force paid below a new minimum wage, their operating expenses will obviously go up. So guess where that difference will come from? In most cases, cost of goods and services will go up. Or another ploy could be to lower the wages for those just above the new minimum to counter raising those below.

Or to counter that, implement a “Maximum Wage (salary)”

I’ve always fancied some kind of formula to tie c-level wages that would take into account the number of employees, and the spread of their wages. But certainly reward for the work and success of the company.

But, I’m sure that would fall into some kind of “-ism” to hate and throw around as a derogatory term.

 

That’s why “Minimum Wage” can’t be a one-liner stuffed behind some other legislation on the table.

 

The cost of living variation is the only problem I have with a federal increase. $15 per hour is practically nothing in some areas and in other areas probably too much. Besides that, I’m for it.

I generally agree most service jobs should not be a career, but many people are simply stuck with those jobs. There aren’t many many good paying careers you can walk into nowadays.

Wage increase is just a redistribution of company profits.

Mr Heads right wing talking points and alike never address the issues of rent, market saturation, monopolies and monopsony when it comes to workers pay.

Mr Heads right wing talking points and alike never address the issues of rent, market saturation, monopolies and monopsony when it comes to workers pay.
Can you expand on that?

 

IMHO, we should be discussing a living wage or a living minimum wage. $15/hour is not a living wage. $20/hour would be more of a living wage and it should apply regardless if you work 20 hours or 40 hours/week. That said, I found this to be an interesting read on the subject:

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/living-wage-constitutional-right

Or to counter that, implement a “Maximum Wage (salary)”
I agree with the concept of a ceiling on "earnings", especially when the earnings are from passive income. Currently "unearned income" is taxed at a lower rate than "earned income" which seems completely backward to me.

Unearned income is from interests and dividends on money which is not in circulation. OTOH, earned income is the result of labor and manufacturing producing consumer goods. In effect it is the earned income from labor which is taxed higher than the unearned income from passive wealth. Riddle me that one?

In France, minimum wage is a fact since WWII. Right now it is 10, 25 euros by hour or 12, 17 $, from which contributions to social welfare must be deducted. The net minimum wage is 8, 11 euros 0r 10, 57. It means that someone working a full time will get monthly 1 231 euros or 1461, 68 $.

In France, the big expenses are housing, 25 %, food and clothes, 15 %, transport, 15 %, and leisure/communication, 10 %. But housing can represent such a cost that the welfare system must help the poors. For them, the cost of housing would represent 35 % of the monthly budget, without theses helps. the annual cost is 18, 5 billions euros or 21, 97 billions $. (18, 5 milliards in French = 18 500 000 000)

Cost of living is said more expensive in France than in USA.

I’m not sure what the conversion rate is between Euros and dollars. When I first read it I thought, “That’s not a living wage.” Then I remember Euros are worth more than the U.S. dollar.

Cost of living is said more expensive in France than in USA.
Not if you count universal healthcare into the mix. US healthcare is by far the most expensive in the world.
Relative to the size of its economy, the U.S. spends a much greater amount on health care
Example: Healthcare in France @ $5,400 p/yr, but twice as much in US @ $11,000 p/yr per capita

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/#item-start

 

@mriana

From your article:

Several countries are experimenting with a guaranteed basic income. In the United States, Alaska has a permanent fund that furnishes additional money for its residents.
I had heard about that in Alaska. If I'm not mistaken, it is taxes from the petroleum industry that pays into the fund.

At a national level, this would help take the burden off of (small) businesses. That money could be (should be) collected in taxes from the highest earners - and corporations (“Businesses are people too”)

Would a guaranteed basic income replace unemployment, welfare or social security?

Should the gov’t just pay every adult that has a poor job or doesn’t have a job? No. There should be stipulations and regulations. Otherwise there will be rampant abuse … like there is in welfare, social security and unemployment.

  • That's another topic - So much more would be available if all the cheating and waste were eliminated. And unfortunately, some of that cheating is happening within corporations and gov't
Cheating example, but not within gov't or corps. Just lack of oversite.

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/investigations/feds-six-family-members-received-7-4-million-in-pandemic-loans-by-creating-fake-ohio-farms

 

 

 

“Otherwise there will be rampant abuse … like there is in welfare, social security and unemployment”

Anothet right wing talking point. Please explain how and what is the evidence that there is rampant abuse currently

 

Made a mistake, I cannot delete the post, sorry.

At a national level, this would help take the burden off of (small) businesses. That money could be (should be) collected in taxes from the highest earners – and corporations (“Businesses are people too”)

Exactly! The U.S. (if we don’t count Alaska) is the only country which doesn’t have a basic income. I think this pandemic has taught us we need basic income, but it has to be more than just a $1400 check every few months. It needs to be at least that every month.

Would a guaranteed basic income replace unemployment, welfare or social security?

It should, but only for those whose income isn’t above a certain level. That way if you lose your job or quit, you can still pay for your basic needs- food, shelter, utilities, clothes (especially if you find a job you want to apply for). That $1400-2000/month won’t pay for a new TV or or new car, but it will keep a person off the streets and/or need for shelters. Of course, socialized medicine (medicare for all for example) would cover medical needs for everyone. Of course, if someone earns like $500,000/year or more (for example) then they probably don’t need the basic income.

I don’t think there can be abuse if that’s all they get- enough to cover basic needs. If they want more than basic needs, then they will have to work for it. If the monthly amount doesn’t cover it, then they don’t get it. It would mean that people would have to be responsible for paying their rent/mortgage, utilities, and food. If they get shrimp and steak then find they don’t have enough money for the month, then too bad. They weren’t being responsible. People don’t need shrimp and/or steak. They do need fruits and vegetable, proteins, such as nuts and beans, or unprocessed chicken and other meats, if they must eat meat (hot dogs and baloney are junk nutrition and not needed either), and grains. Of course that would be controlling what people eat, but if they are going to live off the monthly allowance, I agree they should not have access to certain foods. Processed meats aren’t healthy and shrimp/steak are too expensive and still pay rent/mortgage.

OK, I’ll feed the troll one more time

Anothet right wing talking point. Please explain how and what is the evidence that there is rampant abuse currently
Read about some of our recent investigations.

RIVERDALE WOMAN SENTENCED TO TWO YEARS IN FEDERAL PRISON FOR STEALING MORE THAN $256,000 IN SOCIAL SECURITY DISABILITY PAYMENTS
DATE: Tuesday, March 9, 2021

EMPLOYEE OF MIDDLETOWN USED CAR DEALERSHIP SENTENCED TO PRISON FOR ROLE IN AUTO LOAN FRAUD SCHEME
DATE: Thursday, March 4, 2021

GUILTY PLEA ENTERED IN WIDE-RANGING BANK FRAUD CONSPIRACY
DATE: Wednesday, March 3, 2021

SCHUYLERVILLE MAN SENTENCED FOR SOCIAL SECURITY FRAUD
DATE: Tuesday, February 23, 2021

BRUNSWICK WOMAN TO REPAY SOCIAL SECURITY AFTER CONTINUING TO RECEIVE DECEASED GRANDMOTHER’S CHECKS
DATE: Monday, February 22, 2021

SPRINGFIELD WOMAN CHARGED WITH AGGRAVATED IDENTITY THEFT AND STEALING GOVERNMENT BENEFITS
DATE: Thursday, February 18, 2021

DOMINICAN NATIONAL PLEADS GUILTY TO STEALING GOVERNMENT BENEFITS AND MAKING FALSE STATEMENT
DATE: Wednesday, February 10, 2021

METAIRIE MAN SENTENCED FOR EMBEZZLING OVER $7 MILLION AND FOR FILING FALSE TAX RETURNS
DATE: Tuesday, February 9, 2021

MALDEN WOMAN PLEADS GUILTY TO STEALING SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFITS AND BANK EMBEZZLEMENT
DATE: Tuesday, February 9, 2021

CARLISLE WOMAN INDICTED FOR SOCIAL SECURITY FRAUD
DATE: Tuesday, February 9, 2021

I think we’d have that in just about any program we set up. There is no preventing it, but we can punish those who commit such crimes.

:Read about some of our recent investigations"

How many people did you say are on social security?

 

Ahh thats right, you didnt. Yet you claim its rampant. Go figute

And too, I’ll bet if you add up the total amount of money that was involved in all those examples, they’d add up to a tiny tiny fraction of the amount of cheating dollars that the true welfare queens - corporations, bilk the US for. When we talk about corporations, there’s always fancy economic language to disguise the corporate welfare.

And too, I’ll bet if you add up the total amount of money that was involved in all those examples, they’d add up to a tiny tiny fraction of the amount of cheating dollars that the true welfare queens – corporations, bilk the US for. When we talk about corporations, there’s always fancy economic language to disguise the corporate welfare.
Hey! There's an idea.

Raise minimum wage to $25/hr and then give billions to corporations to cover that extra cost! Those billions will come out of increased wage income taxes, or maybe sales tax.

/sarc off

 

Spot on Cuth. Mr head is blind to this

@cj; When we talk about corporations, there’s always fancy economic language to disguise the corporate welfare.

@mrm; Raise minimum wage to $25/hr and then give billions to corporations to cover that extra cost! Those billions will come out of increased wage income taxes, or maybe sales tax.

@mg; Spot on Cuth. Mr head is blind to this


I have to agree with cj and mg on this. When corporate CEO make 300x (+bonuses) over the income of the average worker, they can well afford to pay a few extra dollars, without ending up on skid row.

A capitalist corporation is the human equivalent of a natural “invasive species” that will eventually kill all other small competitors.

George Carlin said it succinctly and is topical at this very moment.;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nyvxt1svxso

Does this sound like the Repugs in the Senate?