... Science is getting better and better all the time. I remember when the story was that the earth ran in cycles and we were headed for another Ice Age.I remember that as well, though vaguely. I don't think there was the breadth of empirical evidence, for that, that there is today, re: global warming, which, apparently, has been clearly shown to actually be occurring (not just that we are headed for it - we are in it). Yes it's true Earth's temperature has been constrained by Milankovitch Cycles for many, many millions of years http://www.indiana.edu/~geol105/images/gaia_chapter_4/milankovitch.htm According to deep time rhythms, our planet's long term trend was cooling - but human societies increasing our planet's atmospheric insulation layer/ability has turned all that around. The Earth's future is now, thanks to anthropogenic drivers, warming like it hasn't experience in eons. With it's accompanying sea level rise and weather upheaval - sure we are now just feeling the first shock waves, don't kid your selves as the decades roll by this geophysical experiment is going to do nothing but gain steam. Climate Change 2013: The Physical Science Basis https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar5/wg1/
Oh that brings us back to the Koch bros and the problem, and some of the defensive comments made above.
The problem is using deception and dirty tricks and the rich man’s mega-phone to drown out
real world serious information every dang thinking citizen should have been learning about.
Replacing objective learning with ruthless misinformation for personal success regardless of social impacts
The ruthless use of dirty tricks and lies to fool the masses into believing total bull poop about the state of our planet
and what our greedily little human society is doing to our own global life support system.
The most ironically tragic part of America’s whole social unraveling is that lefties and righties need each other to keep each other honest.
One side is hopeless without the counter balance of the other !
That’s the thing that our founding father’s appreciated and what made our early government such a lasting success.
That’s been replaced with that idiot notion that winning is everything and that “I’m” always right.
… and that learning about the facts honestly is considered an enemy to a business agenda, so becomes a political target for destruction.
disgusting…
Sometimes pondering the waste get’s so f’n depressing I get sick and can barely stand it.
Good thing I got hyper attention syndrome and there are plenty of beautiful aspects of this life and earth still remaining and I’m going to try and enjoy them till they or me are gone. And both those futures are coming down the line.
The ruthless use of dirty tricks and lies to fool the masses into believing total bull poop about the state of our planet and what our greedily little human society is doing to our own global life support system. The most ironically tragic part of America's whole social unraveling is that lefties and righties need each other to keep each other honest. One side is hopeless without the counter balance of the other !What I found was interesting when studying religion, was that our older religions recognized “Greed" as a major human flaw and it was built into the religions to combat “Greed". The Egyptians had to rebalance the earth every 20 to 30 years because of “Greed". Re-balancing was to redistribute the land and wealth, mostly from the government departments (temples). So greed is something that must run in every generation. Jesus talked about greed but it was pretty much left out of the Christian religions.
Oh that brings us back to the Koch bros and the problem, and some of the defensive comments made above. The problem is using deception and dirty tricks and the rich man's mega-phone to drown out real world serious information every dang thinking citizen should have been learning about.I don't think your looking at the "big" picture. No body in power cares about a couple of brothers making a billion dollars. Trillions of dollars are changing hands every day. What the brothers can do by political influence is hardly a drop in the bucket. I agree that money is power, but those that control the secret courts and the data and print the money have the "REAL" power.
Oh that brings us back to the Koch bros and the problem, and some of the defensive comments made above. The problem is using deception and dirty tricks and the rich man's mega-phone to drown out real world serious information every dang thinking citizen should have been learning about.I don't think your looking at the "big" picture. No body in power cares about a couple of brothers making a billion dollars. Trillions of dollars are changing hands every day. What the brothers can do by political influence is hardly a drop in the bucket. I agree that money is power, but those that control the secret courts and the data and print the money have the "REAL" power. Dude look at the whole global warming denial campaign - it has stalled all substantive action to reduce greenhouse gas injections into our atmosphere - That delay has nothing to do with understanding serious science and everything to do with vast fortunes privately funding malicious campaigns of disinformation and political manipulation. See ALEX http://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_Exposed and Manufacturing Doubt January 17, 2010 by climate sight http://climatesight.org/2010/01/17/manufacturing-doubt/ etc., etc.
Dude look at the whole global warming denial campaign - it has stalled all substantive action to reduce greenhouse gas injections into our atmosphere - That delay has nothing to do with understanding serious science and everything to do with vast fortunes privately funding malicious campaigns of disinformation and political manipulation.I checked out the website. The Koch brothers are much richer, they are more like trillion airs than billionaires. Checking them out on Wikipedia gives an overall picture of their goals. Their work has been outside of my interests or I should have heard of them before. If I had to pick Koch or the CMD, I would have to go with Koch. Reason is the pipeline. America needs the pipeline. It is that simple. Have you been following the energy policies for the United States? I heard the Government is going to start building nuclear power plants again. This is so they can lower the carbon going into the air. Took a trip across country a few months back and I was surprised by the number of big wind mills I saw. I am not sold on “Global Warming" yet. But, the carbon in the air needs to be addressed. Today an article about a 200 year drought that ended the Indus Valley Civilization was published. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/04/drought-doomed-indus-valley_n_4895673.html If a lack of monsoons did spell the end of the Indus Valley civilization, says Hodell, “it is an example — and there are other examples of this — of how ancient societies have had to contend with climate. There are some lessons for us and our future, in which we will have to deal with anthropogenic climate change". an•thro•po•gen•ic ˌanTHrəpˈjenik/Submit adjective 1. (chiefly of environmental pollution and pollutants) originating in human activity. "anthropogenic emissions of sulfur dioxide"
What the Kochs and others are doing is just part of a broader system that is in a slow state of tearing itself apart, what we see as crisises are just inevitable results of such destructive behaviour. So the questions becomes, why support people and organizations who are working for such a destructive purpose?I cannot go into these issues. Reason is that I have studied the system and I do not know how to tell you how the system operates without seeming like I am out in left field. The best thing I can tell you is to study the life of the NSA Bankers over the last fifty years. The NSA banker I found most interesting was John R. Petty. Following the life time career of an NSA Banker will show you how the government got involved in the Media and Banking. It will take you into the Economic Warfare that has been going on since WW1. Taiwan has been a NSA banking asset for years to conduct the Economic Warfare with China. If you research what the United States has done to the Formosa people since WWII then you will see how the NSA Bankers puts Economic Warfare over the rights and living conditions of the people. There is no such thing as to big to fail. The big banks are partnered with the Government and have NSA bankers on their boards. This was started by J.P. Morgan and evolved into the Midland Bank as just one example. The banks committed thousands and thousands of felonies in the housing market alone, yet none went to jail. When you understand the Economic Warfare then you will understand how the system works and why things like this can happen when there is no oversight and everything is done in secrecy. The system is not run by people like the Koch Brothers, it is being run by NSA bankers like John R. Petty. I think the situation is far more complex than that and has evolved from a desire of a few people to control the system, the Rockefellers are definitely a part of it, but it also includes defence contractors, the energy sector, big media and more. It is a closed shop to a great degree, but I seriously doubt there's one script they're operating under except the driving force of pretty much uncontrolled greed right now. The Kochs are just as much a part of that as anyone as are the Walton kids who together have a net financial worth of over $80 billion while their employees are making $8 an hour and are prevented from organizing for better wages, benefits, conditions etc... The answer isn't picking the greedy pig we like best, it's changing the rules so the greedy pigs have to consider the rights and needs of the people who they are supposedly serving.
In regards to atmospheric Carbon Dioxide levels, we humans, have, ignorantly, been moving very fast. Since 1950 the atmospheric levels have been greater than any time in the past 625,000 years. And since 1950 the continuing rate of increase is straight up.Science is getting better and better all the time. I remember when the story was that the earth ran in cycles and we were headed for another Ice Age. You’re right on the carbon foot print. But what I hate seeing is that we shoot ourselves in the foot and then complain because we can’t walk. We should take it slow and do the proper fix. The proper fix to me would be to change to geothermal energy. And I mean deep hole, high temperature energy. Those temperatures start at 1,200 degrees and go up. Pure energy. But, today that’s not even being talked about. Why? I would guess it is not a field that requires much science so NASA is not going there. Here something the scientist are working on. http://northdenvernews.com/co2-to-methanol-a-new-lost-catalyst-peak-oil-climate-change/ It's not that simple, by altering the geological structure of many areas it possible to create more problems than you solve. In my opinion the only real alternative we have now is nuclear power which comes with it's own set of dangers and complications. And I think we have a lot less time to react than most people think, it may already be too late to prevent a system wide ecological collapse when you consider what is going on in the oceans alone.
If I had to pick Koch or the CMD, I would have to go with Koch. Reason is the pipeline. America needs the pipeline. It is that simple.How do America's energy policies justify the insanity of the Keystone tar sands project, plus it's shipping thing and the pipeline??? America needs that pipeline, like a fish needs a bicycle! http://citizenschallenge.blogspot.com/2014/03/marcia-mcnutts-ill-considered.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Besides don't you appreciate that future spending focus isn't going to be on infrastructure development? from here on in, we will be seeing an increasing shift of resources to disaster response and rebuilding efforts? The brave new world is here as an awareness of the global situation makes obvious? Yet the GOP continues doing everything to ignore the obvious… pathetic as pathetic get's, but they gotta hold on to their power so they couldn't care less about what's happening - because that would demand big changes.
That’s right CC! It’s a race to sell every last drop of oil. It would be no different if the vast majority of the world
were heroin addicts and opium was in the ground. They* would be drilling every last drop out of the ground.
The Democrats are just as bad.
It’s not “they” though. It’s we. Most of us buy gasoline and motor oil and carpets and paints etc…
So we are drilling for oil.
The Keystone Pipeline is just another diseased syringe to satisfy the addiction of the world.
America needs that pipeline, like a fish needs a bicycle! Yet the GOP continues doing everything to ignore the obvious… pathetic as pathetic get's, but they gotta hold on to their power so they couldn't care less about what's happening - because that would demand big changes.If you have ever bought gas for a car, taken a shower, or cooked a meal, then chances are you have used products delivered by pipelines. Pipelines are by far the safest and cheapest way to move products there is today. When thing get bad, people start looking who should be blamed. And naturally it is the rich. Didn’t they just do this same thing in Venezuela last year? What do you think the tax increases has been since the Democrats took office? What has the national debt done since the Democrats took office? Yet you call the GOP pathetic. I would like to do all these great things for the earth and the people, but we have reached the limit on how much people can be taxed and still want to work. I hear you when you think the government is moving to slow. Who do you think created the methods to slow projects down? The high speed rail from LA to Las Vegas is in its 26 year of environmental studies. In California, Governor Jerry Brown took office and wanted to spend some of the Federal money by building a new LA Convention Center and Stadium. Was going to create 8,000 new jobs. He even passed a new law that would put all the lawsuits on top of the pile in the California court system. The lawyers said that would help, it would only take 8 years to start building instead of 20 years. The kicker is that most of these laws that allowed the lawsuits were made law when Jerry Brown was governor some years back and he passed them to clobber the GOP projects.
I agree that we are all part of the problem. The statement “The Democrats are just as bad.” however, I have difficulty with. In regards to this particular problem, it seems to me that would be like saying CitizensChallenge is just as bad as, say, Ted Cruz. I don’t buy that. CC, as all of us Democrats, may be ineffectual in addressing the problem, but he knows it IS a problem and speaks out against it. While someone like Ted Cruz would deny the problem and promote policies to make it worse.
...What has the national debt done since the Democrats took office? Yet you call the GOP pathetic...The Gross National Debt as a % of the GDP was relatively stable under Roosevelt (Democrat) until WWII. I think WWII was a pretty good excuse for it peaking under his administration. Since then it went down under Truman (Democrat), Eisenhower (Republican), Kennedy (Democrat), LBJ (Democrat), Nixon (Republican), Ford (Republican), Carter (Democrat). THEN, it went up HORRIBLY under Reagan (Republican), and Bush, Sr. (Republican). It went down under Clinton (Democrat). It went up HORRIBLY under Bush, Jr (Republican) who also left Obama with the worst economy since the Great Depression, and it has consequently gone up HORRIBLY under Obama (Democrat). So, all in all, if you simply want to use national debt as the criteria, yes, since, and INCLUDING Reagan, the GOP has been pathetic.
Yet you call the GOP pathetic.Let me be more exact. The ruthless attack on and suppression of sound scientific facts are what's pathetic, and as we are starting to see, quite counterproductive. And yes I appreciate all of us are in this. I love a full grocery store and gas station as much as anyone. My resentment of the GOP machine rests on a few points: The Reaganomics notion that Greed is Good The Reaganomics notion that Regulations are Bad The Reaganomics notion that Growth can be Endless The Reaganomics notion that short term gain is more important that long term planning and preparation The general notion that if you're not with us your against us The elevation of personal/religious challenges (reproduction freedom and sexual preference, etc.) into major political issues they have no right to be. When we should be worrying about way more relevant issues, such as sustainable economy, dealing with the consequences our geophysical global warming experiment, infrastructure maintenance, etc. But, no let's create hot button emotional issues to occupy the sheeple . . . .
I agree that we are all part of the problem. The statement "The Democrats are just as bad." however, I have difficulty with. In regards to this particular problem, it seems to me that would be like saying CitizensChallenge is just as bad as, say, Ted Cruz. I don't buy that. CC, as all of us Democrats, may be ineffectual in addressing the problem, but he knows it IS a problem and speaks out against it. While someone like Ted Cruz would deny the problem and promote policies to make it worse.Well also contextually that depends on if CC is even a Democrat. It also depends on the the power that CC has and the power Ted Cruz has. I said the Dems are just as bad. Whether you mean actual Democratic lawmakers or just garden variety Dem or GOP voters. If you want to get picky I suppose you could show that GOP lawmakers or voters are slightly to moderately more worse. That's not the point. At this point in the game, oil is a world wide commodity that is being influenced by people from around the world. That and the fact that humans are literally addicted to oil. If oil went away abruptly civilization as we know it would cease to exist. So the GOP is like a heroin dealer who sells to kids and people of all colors shapes and sizes. Sells cheap!! The Dems are like the dealer who tries to convince his junky customers that they need to get help. He sells a little more expensive. That's just the US. Other countries have their own "Oil Slingers" and everyone is getting high on oil one way or another! Dems, GOP, Socialists, Mao Maos, Conservatives, Green, SDs, Christians, Muslims, etc etc..
Continuing with the analogy that we are all hopelessly addicted to heroin, I would say that we would be better off, in general, if the heroin is expensive.
So, all in all, if you simply want to use national debt as the criteria, yes, since, and INCLUDING Reagan, the GOP has been pathetic.It’s not that the GOP is any better than the democrats. It’s that neither party has the right to throw stones or to blame the other party for being the bad guy that got us where we are today. The voter’s choice seems to be able to vote for the less evil. The Media is always crushing the guy or other parties who really wants what’s best for the nation. It's like once the congressman gets to DC they have to join the "system" to be able to raise funds for the next campaign. What i would like to see is that when they vote in congress, they can not change the vote that the public sees. They vote one way, yet there record show they voted another way. Isn't that a whole lot like "lying"?
Reducing or eliminating gerrymandering would be helpful.
Reducing or eliminating gerrymandering would be helpful.I agree. But then, since the Dick Cheney/and his sock puppet George W. administration, I have been a dedicated Democrat.
Well also contextually that depends on if CC is even a Democrat.started Democrat Did a lot of volunteering for that WWII Air Force Bomber pilot who ran for President in 1972. Went unaffiliated . . . Returned to Democrat a few elections back so that I could participate in the Caucus process and become a delegate at the state convention… related to my No Village At Wolf Creek advocacy :cheese: http://no-villageatwolfcreek.blogspot.com {Which incidentally, is about to hit the fan again} ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sorry but, seems to me, there is a substantive difference between Dems and Reps political machines. I'd like to see examples of the Democrats having anything near what the Republican machine has achieved with it's network of Global Warming Denial Think-Tanks, churning out material for that right wing (read Murdoch et al.) world media outlets and the ruthless misrepresentation of the science including consistent out and out lying about basic unassailable facts.