Koch Brothers

I hadn’t heard much about these two industrialists until a few years ago and now they’re identified by many as one of the most significant threats to democracy in America and environmental survival globally. They have billions of dollars to play with and have created or supported some of the most extreme far right think tanks and organizations. They’re largely behind Citizens United which allows the wealthy to decide political races, the Tea Party and much more.
Just how dangerous are the Koch Brothers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/opinion/29rich.html?_r=0

ANOTHER weekend, another grass-roots demonstration starring Real Americans who are mad as hell and want to take back their country from you-know-who. Last Sunday the site was Lower Manhattan, where they jeered the “ground zero mosque." This weekend, the scene shifted to Washington, where the avatars of oppressed white Tea Party America, Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin, were slated to “reclaim the civil rights movement" (Beck’s words) on the same spot where the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. had his dream exactly 47 years earlier. Vive la révolution! There’s just one element missing from these snapshots of America’s ostensibly spontaneous and leaderless populist uprising: the sugar daddies who are bankrolling it, and have been doing so since well before the “death panel" warm-up acts of last summer. Three heavy hitters rule. You’ve heard of one of them, Rupert Murdoch. The other two, the brothers David and Charles Koch, are even richer, with a combined wealth exceeded only by that of Bill Gates and Warren Buffett among Americans. But even those carrying the Kochs’ banner may not know who these brothers are.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_activities_of_the_Koch_brothers

They should be the posterboys representing the 1%ers in class warfare in America. Of course in war, you can be ever so much more effective, if most of your opponents aren’t even aware of you, and, in fact, don’t even know a war is going on.
Their continuing emerging notoriety, I think, is a mistake on their part. But perhaps it is simply inevitable due to the broadness, aggressiveness, and efficacy of their efforts.

Sounds like business as usual.

Yep, they’re the face of 21st century US Fascism. When Scott Walker was elected (funded I believe by the Koch brothers) someone from a progressive organization actually called Scott Walker posing as David Koch. It was obvious Walker had no clue, and from the conversation it was obvious he was taking his marching orders from them. Ooops.

Yep, they're the face of 21st century US Fascism. When Scott Walker was elected (funded I believe by the Koch brothers) someone from a progressive organization actually called Scott Walker posing as David Koch. It was obvious Walker had no clue, and from the conversation it was obvious he was taking his marching orders from them. Ooops.
I read about that. I also read somewhere else that the Kochs are attacking unions as the other side of the Citizens United thing. The decision also allows unions to make unlimited campaign contributions so the Kochs want to remove any rivals to their power. It seems to me that the Kochs and others like them represent a new kind of aristocracy that are above any real laws and controls.
It seems to me that the Kochs and others like them represent a new kind of aristocracy that are above any real laws and controls.
New? C'mon....
It seems to me that the Kochs and others like them represent a new kind of aristocracy that are above any real laws and controls.
New? C'mon.... Sorry, ever growing. And the more power and wealth they have the less everyone else has.
Sorry, ever growing. And the more power and wealth they have the less everyone else has.
I do not see the logic. Example, if i grew a big garden and had lots of food, then I would have wealth and power in the food area, and your saying that would be less for everyone else. So I should grow no garden and that way everyone will have more food. Is that what you are saying?


Sorry, ever growing. And the more power and wealth they have the less everyone else has.

I do not see the logic.
Example, if i grew a big garden and had lots of food, then I would have wealth and power in the food area, and your saying that would be less for everyone else. So I should grow no garden and that way everyone will have more food.
Is that what you are saying?
Well when their goal is to consolidate their power and marginalize everyone else’s . . .
CEO Pay Grew 127 Times Faster Than Worker Pay Over Last 30 Years: Study
The Huffington Post | By Bonnie Kavoussi
Posted: 05/02/2012
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/02/ceo-pay-worker-pay_n_1471685.html
CEO-To-Worker Pay Ratio Ballooned 1,000 Percent Since 1950: Report
Posted: 04/30/2013
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/30/ceo-to-worker-pay-ratio_n_3184623.html

And then there’s the Kochs et al. attack on American democracy - their conviction that dollars should dictate the electoral/political system rather than citizen votes.
And then there’s the Kochs et al. attack on climate science which has crippled all serious efforts to slow down greenhouse gas emissions, which in turn is guaranteeing a pure hell on Earth for our children and their families.
Yea, they (and like mind gazillionaires ) are as evil as it gets. Sociopathic even >:-(

NOT JUST THE KOCH BROTHERS: NEW DREXEL STUDY REVEALS FUNDERS BEHIND THE CLIMATE CHANGE DENIAL EFFORT PHILADELPHIA, December 20, 2013 A new study conducted by Drexel University environmental sociologist Robert J. Brulle, PhD, exposes the organizational underpinnings and funding behind the powerful climate change countermovement. This study marks the first peer-reviewed, comprehensive analysis ever conducted of the sources of funding that maintain the denial effort. Through an analysis of the financial structure of the organizations that constitute the core of the countermovement and their sources of monetary support, Brulle found that, while the largest and most consistent funders behind the countermovement are a number of well-known conservative foundations, the majority of donations are “dark money," or concealed funding. The data also indicates that Koch Industries and ExxonMobil, two of the largest supporters of climate science denial, have recently pulled back from publicly funding countermovement organizations. Coinciding with the decline in traceable funding, the amount of funding given to countermovement organizations through third party pass-through foundations like Donors Trust and Donors Capital, whose funders cannot be traced, has risen dramatically. ... - See more at: http://drexel.edu/now/news-media/releases/archive/2013/December/Climate-Change/#sthash.k1OLxzmb.dpuf
Well when their goal is to consolidate their power and marginalize everyone else's . . . And then there's the Kochs et al. attack on American democracy - their conviction that dollars should dictate the electoral/political system rather than citizen votes. And then there's the Kochs et al. attack on climate science which has crippled all serious efforts to slow down greenhouse gas emissions, which in turn is guaranteeing a pure hell on Earth for our children and their families. Yea, they (and like mind gazillionaires ) are as evil as it gets. Sociopathic even >:-(
I still disagree. Kochs are not controlling the pay. Laws are. Take the grape industry. Upset people passed all these laws in California on behalf of the grape pickers against the wealthy farmers and after twenty years the grape pickers are still making the same income. They were better off before they got the government involved. Everything seems to go in cycles that are based upon inflation and the market. Unions are needed to balance the cycle. But Union can be bad for the people too, just look at Californian and southern Europe for example. As far as greenhouse gasses. We should move very slow. I remember when the United States went nuclear. The top nuclear scientists went before congress and stated that they would be able to burn nuclear waste up and then we would have no nuclear waste. Congress agreed to spend 4B on the plant to burn nuclear waste in Washington State. These were the top nuclear scientist in the world and they could not be wrong. It did not work. Next, look at Yellowstone and the burning process. For over 20 years Wyoming was trying to tell the Federal government scientists that yearly burning was good for Yellowstone. But the top U.S. scientist said that was faulty thinking and that science shows that all fires should be put out. And the people backing the scientist were saying that people that believed otherwise were the wealthy and the ones getting rich from logging or were backed by the wealthy. That science lead to the burning of trees in Yellowstone that were hundreds of years old. Now the scientists agree to yearly "let it burn" policies. So for twenty years our top scientist are telling us that facts based upon science show one thing and then overnight the science can be changed by these top scientist to show just the opposite. Now let look at the globalize warming. Whops, After 17 years of "Global Warming" it is now call "Climate Change". That in itself should be a red flag. Why do you think that is? Could it be because there has been no "global warming" in 17 years and "Climate Change" is the way scientist can save face? I agree the air quality needs improving but I think you missed the real money behind all these scientific studies and that is "Carbon Tax Credits".
Kochs et al. attack on American democracy - their conviction that dollars should dictate the electoral/political system rather than citizen votes.>:-(
I don't know where to begin. But I prefer the Kochs system over the NSA/CIA voting system.
Well when their goal is to consolidate their power and marginalize everyone else's . . . And then there's the Kochs et al. attack on American democracy - their conviction that dollars should dictate the electoral/political system rather than citizen votes. And then there's the Kochs et al. attack on climate science which has crippled all serious efforts to slow down greenhouse gas emissions, which in turn is guaranteeing a pure hell on Earth for our children and their families. Yea, they (and like mind gazillionaires ) are as evil as it gets. Sociopathic even >:-(
I still disagree. Kochs are not controlling the pay. Laws are. Take the grape industry. Upset people passed all these laws in California on behalf of the grape pickers against the wealthy farmers and after twenty years the grape pickers are still making the same income. They were better off before they got the government involved. Everything seems to go in cycles that are based upon inflation and the market. Unions are needed to balance the cycle. But Union can be bad for the people too, just look at Californian and southern Europe for example. As far as greenhouse gasses. We should move very slow. I remember when the United States went nuclear. The top nuclear scientists went before congress and stated that they would be able to burn nuclear waste up and then we would have no nuclear waste. Congress agreed to spend 4B on the plant to burn nuclear waste in Washington State. These were the top nuclear scientist in the world and they could not be wrong. It did not work. Next, look at Yellowstone and the burning process. For over 20 years Wyoming was trying to tell the Federal government scientists that yearly burning was good for Yellowstone. But the top U.S. scientist said that was faulty thinking and that science shows that all fires should be put out. And the people backing the scientist were saying that people that believed otherwise were the wealthy and the ones getting rich from logging or were backed by the wealthy. That science lead to the burning of trees in Yellowstone that were hundreds of years old. Now the scientists agree to yearly "let it burn" policies. So for twenty years our top scientist are telling us that facts based upon science show one thing and then overnight the science can be changed by these top scientist to show just the opposite. Now let look at the globalize warming. Whops, After 17 years of "Global Warming" it is now call "Climate Change". That in itself should be a red flag. Why do you think that is? Could it be because there has been no "global warming" in 17 years and "Climate Change" is the way scientist can save face? I agree the air quality needs improving but I think you missed the real money behind all these scientific studies and that is "Carbon Tax Credits".
Kochs et al. attack on American democracy - their conviction that dollars should dictate the electoral/political system rather than citizen votes.>:-(
I don't know where to begin. But I prefer the Kochs system over the NSA/CIA voting system. I strongly disagree on the climate change issue alone, while it has slowed in recent years due to complex factors like unforced variability in the south pacific, climate change and global warming are still under way and will be for years even if we stop all CO2 emissions and other positive forcings right now. There's a lot of good debunking here. https://www.skepticalscience.com/ I also disagree that the current trend in America towards a security state should be answered by turning the country over to a de facto aristocracy. The answer is more involvement by US citizens not less as the Kochs and other like them almost certainly want.
Sorry, ever growing. And the more power and wealth they have the less everyone else has.
I do not see the logic. Example, if i grew a big garden and had lots of food, then I would have wealth and power in the food area, and your saying that would be less for everyone else. So I should grow no garden and that way everyone will have more food. Is that what you are saying? You're assuming that people get wealthy by producing things, much of current commerce seems to involve getting people to think that certain things have value and then fleecing them. Examples: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot-com_bubble followed by a large number of corporate accounting scams. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accounting_scandals And the Bernie Madoff and subprime scandals which happened concurrently and were linked. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Madoff http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subprime_mortgage_crisis huge amounts of wealth are based on hard to define and borderline fraudulent investment instruments. http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2013/01/08/five-years-after-the-financial-meltdown-the-water-is-still-full-of-big-sharks/ What the Kochs and others are doing is just part of a broader system that is in a slow state of tearing itself apart, what we see as crisises are just inevitable results of such destructive behaviour. So the questions becomes, why support people and organizations who are working for such a destructive purpose?
What the Kochs and others are doing is just part of a broader system that is in a slow state of tearing itself apart, what we see as crisises are just inevitable results of such destructive behaviour. So the questions becomes, why support people and organizations who are working for such a destructive purpose?
I cannot go into these issues. Reason is that I have studied the system and I do not know how to tell you how the system operates without seeming like I am out in left field. The best thing I can tell you is to study the life of the NSA Bankers over the last fifty years. The NSA banker I found most interesting was John R. Petty. Following the life time career of an NSA Banker will show you how the government got involved in the Media and Banking. It will take you into the Economic Warfare that has been going on since WW1. Taiwan has been a NSA banking asset for years to conduct the Economic Warfare with China. If you research what the United States has done to the Formosa people since WWII then you will see how the NSA Bankers puts Economic Warfare over the rights and living conditions of the people. There is no such thing as to big to fail. The big banks are partnered with the Government and have NSA bankers on their boards. This was started by J.P. Morgan and evolved into the Midland Bank as just one example. The banks committed thousands and thousands of felonies in the housing market alone, yet none went to jail. When you understand the Economic Warfare then you will understand how the system works and why things like this can happen when there is no oversight and everything is done in secrecy. The system is not run by people like the Koch Brothers, it is being run by NSA bankers like John R. Petty.
... As far as greenhouse gasses. We should move very slow...
In regards to atmospheric Carbon Dioxide levels, we humans, have, ignorantly, been moving very fast. Since 1950 the atmospheric levels have been greater than any time in the past 625,000 years. And since 1950 the continuing rate of increase is straight up. http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence

What are NSA bankers?
If that stands for what I think it does then that’s ridiculous.

In regards to atmospheric Carbon Dioxide levels, we humans, have, ignorantly, been moving very fast. Since 1950 the atmospheric levels have been greater than any time in the past 625,000 years. And since 1950 the continuing rate of increase is straight up.
Science is getting better and better all the time. I remember when the story was that the earth ran in cycles and we were headed for another Ice Age. You’re right on the carbon foot print. But what I hate seeing is that we shoot ourselves in the foot and then complain because we can’t walk. We should take it slow and do the proper fix. The proper fix to me would be to change to geothermal energy. And I mean deep hole, high temperature energy. Those temperatures start at 1,200 degrees and go up. Pure energy. But, today that’s not even being talked about. Why? I would guess it is not a field that requires much science so NASA is not going there. Here something the scientist are working on. http://northdenvernews.com/co2-to-methanol-a-new-lost-catalyst-peak-oil-climate-change/
... Science is getting better and better all the time. I remember when the story was that the earth ran in cycles and we were headed for another Ice Age.
I remember that as well, though vaguely. I don't think there was the breadth of empirical evidence, for that, that there is today, re: global warming, which, apparently, has been clearly shown to actually be occurring (not just that we are headed for it - we are in it). BTW, just for everyone's clarification, if needed: Global warming is not exactly the same thing as climate change. Climate change is a product of global warming, just as climate change would be a product of global cooling, if that were occurring. Different parts of the world have different climates. More recently, another topic has become prominent: extreme weather events. There are many different kinds of weather events. [If local climates are changing, then logically, one can deduce that weather will be different than it has been in some ways for those localities. It does not necessarily follow that global warming will lead to a global net effect of more and unusually intense and broadly varying weather events compared to the number, intensity and variance of weather events that occurred when the Earth (as a whole) was cooler.] I say all this, because I think it is important to be precise when making assertions about these topics, because the anthropogenic-global-warming-deniers will grasp at anything to support their claim that it is all just a bunch of bunk.
What are NSA bankers? If that stands for what I think it does then that's ridiculous.
Two years ago on the NSA website under job opportunities was the opening for up to 8,000 investment bankers or retired bankers to work for the NSA. I know three friends who have been teaching in China for the last decade and they were all teaching the american banking system and methods to China bankers. What is not well known is that the NSA has changed the whole structural makeup of China by bringing them into the world market. They are the reason we are able to get products from China at such cheep rates. The NSA has done one hell-ave job in China and the rest of Asia. This is not talked about much, the exact number is not known, but it has been stated that up to 100,000 business in China are owned by Tawian/NSA. Almost all major U.S. companies have NSA members on the Boards of Directors. Most committees that report to congress also have members. Most presidents have also been members of the NSA. We know this because most presidents have been on the Media committee that controls the Media data that can be harmful to the public. I am not saying this is bad at all. Many of the NSA members are specialist in their field of education. The idea seems to be that the NSA uses top professors and people to help make decisions that effect the U.S. and the world. They work for our major colleges and universities. Working for the NSA is task driven. Finish the operation and wait for the next call. It is not like a full time job. Some companies that are NSA owned and operated are managed so well that the workers don't even know who their real employer are. I should explain that there are what, nineteen secret departments. Most are not known by the public. So we will use "NSA" to cover all the departments. It has been said by a couple of congressmen that the NSA/CIA's budget is as large as all the rest of the military combined. What does an NSA banker do? They sit on the boards of major companies. Especially the companies with many overseas offices. They help the companies with international banking. Another example is when Chili was leaning towards Communism the president appointed members to open investments from U.S. companies to invest in Chili. The companies invested over 100M and lost every dime. It was all just an NSA operation. The same thing was redone with the countries that broke away from Russia. How else could the United States legally give money to political parties in other countries. The U.S. has equipped armies in other countries, this is all done by the NSA. Do you remember the Canada oil being marketed to China and that Robertson went to Canada and talked them out of selling to China? Robertson was also working for the NSA, and he is Petty's boss in the Chinese bond market. They are all very smart people working for the NSA. There is no way some elected official could ever make the right choices on international problems or ever get anything done without the NSA. The NSA is what keeps the world banking system working.
while it has slowed in recent years due to complex factors like unforced variability in the south pacific, climate change and global warming are still under way and will be for years even if we stop all CO2 emissions and other positive forcings right now. There's a lot of good debunking here. https://www.skepticalscience.com/ I also disagree that the current trend in America towards a security state should be answered by turning the country over to a de facto aristocracy. The answer is more involvement by US citizens not less as the Kochs and other like them almost certainly want.
Don't fall into the trap. Warming has not slowed by any means when the entire global heat distribution system is taken into consideration. For some of the details
Global warming is unpaused and stuck on fast forward, new research shows Posted on 10 December 2013 by dana1981 http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-fast-forward-trenberth.html New research by Kevin Trenberth and John Fasullo of the National Center for Atmospheric Research investigates how the warming of the Earth's climate has behaved over the past 15 years compared with the previous few decades. They conclude that while the rate of increase of average global surface temperatures has slowed since 1998, melting of Arctic ice, rising sea levels, and warming oceans have continued apace. The widespread mainstream media focus on the slowed global surface warming has led some climate scientists like Trenberth and Fasullo to investigate its causes and how much various factors have contributed to the so-called 'pause' or 'hiatus.' However, the authors note that while the increase in global temperatures has slowed, the oceans have taken up heat at a faster rate since the turn of the century. Over 90 percent of the overall extra heat goes into the oceans, with only about 2 percent heating the Earth's atmosphere. The myth of the 'pause' is based on ignoring 98 percent of global warming and focusing exclusively on the one bit that's slowed.