Xain: Why NOT live life and go through everything with it?Whatever for? It is easy for you to say. Never mind the sidewalks and byways, this is the top of the heap.
Again, why not? You can easily pose the opposite because neither one is ultimately better or worse
You’ve got to be kidding me, Xain. Are you a Buddhist monk in your last incarnation or what? I am an American and can suffer from heat fatigue, lousy wine and cotton bed sheets less than 1000 thread count. This is why America must save the world. We feel the pain.
America does not feel the pain but really the source of a lot of it. But it’s not relevant to the point. Thinking that suicide is the answer implies that death has some form of meaning when it’s just as meaningless as life
I think he’s got you there, Sree. No?
Got me where? Xain is saying that people make a big deal out of a lot of things and death being one of them. It’s all meaningless, according to Xain. Does he mean that life is pointless? If so, why suffer? Don’t you suffer, Tim? Old age is no cake walk even if you don’t have bodily illnesses; and if you do, that would be a lot more painful than putting up with Donald Trump. Then, there is the worry about money. Even when people seem to be doing ok and have money, they would still kill themselves. Anthony Bourdain 's suicide was a shocker to me. I wish I can talk some sense into Xain.
You aren’t talking sense to anyone because you still attribute meaning to death when it’s meaningless. Some people suffer but wouldn’t trade that for anything so your perspective on it would be wrong. The ancient Stoics would also beg to differ as well. You take you view of suffering to be universal when it isn’t.
Sree, I think that you may be able to help Xain. Don’t give up.
Suffering is not universal? You think the Buddha was a fool? He saw suffering in the poor, the sick, the old, the dying and the fear of annihilation. Actually, death, in itself, does not exist. It is the fear, of death, that bothers people.
Xain: Some people suffer but wouldn’t trade that for anything so your perspective on it would be wrong.Can you explain this? Why would anyone want to suffer?
Death itself does exist, to suggest otherwise is foolish.
Also I didn’t say that suffering didn’t exist but that your perspective of it isn’t universal. Suffering, oddly, gives life meaning for a good deal of people. I think there was one artist, Frida Kahlo who lives in chronic pain all her life but wasn’t suicidal. She turned her pain into art. There are plenty of Buddhist practitioners who suffer from chronic pain but still aren’t suicide.
Your question is wrong, as it implies suffering is an option. The correct term is what do we do about it. Suicide isn’t an answer as it dodges the question.
Xain: Death itself does exist, to suggest otherwise is foolish.Death exists to whom? To the one who dies or to those watching the one who dies? I watched my dog die. The vet said he had to be put down and I said ok. I didn't want the little guy (a Brussels Griffon like the one in "As Good as it Gets" movie) to go on suffering liver cirrhosis. He was fed the best of everything organic. That is why I don't trust Michelle Obama's school lunch program. I watched him die.
There is no way for anyone, personally, to experience the fact of death. Take sleep, for example. You can only experience the state of wakefulness.
Technically you do experience sleep if you dream, and to some level sleep paralysis. But that’s irrelevant, as is not trusting her lunch program. Eating well just makes it far less likely you’ll develop health issues but they can still happen. Nothing is guaranteed entirely in life aside from death.
Xain: Nothing is guaranteed entirely in life aside from death.You are still not getting it. The body is definitely going to die. You are not the body, and the body is not you. Do you believe that you, Xain, came out of the brain? This is the general consensus.
I didn’t want the little guy... to go on suffering liver cirrhosis. He was fed the best of everything organic. That is why I don’t trust Michelle Obama’s school lunch program. I watched him die.Sooo, you think organic food leads to cirrhosis of the liver?
Common causes of cirrhosis are:long-term alcohol abuse
hepatitis B and C infection
fatty liver disease
toxic metals
genetic diseases
Hepatitis B and C together are said to be the leading causes of cirrhosis. Other causes include:Regularly drinking too much alcohol …
https://www medicalnewstoday_com/articles/172295 _php#causes
You are not the body, and the body is not you.Oh but we are our body and our bodies are us. And all of us dies, except for the molecules migrating into and out of our bodies. Think in evolutionary terms.
You are still not getting it. The body is definitely going to die. You are not the body, and the body is not you. Do you believe that you, Xain, came out of the brain? This is the general consensus.Because it’s true, the evidence points to the brain being the center for consciousness and no evidence points to us not being the body. While it might feel that way that is simply not the case. Consciousness also has not been shown to survive death implying that it is tied to the brain and produced by it.
v.3: Sooo, you think organic food leads to cirrhosis of the liver?I think you nailed it. It's probably genetic. The other possibility is the crap he eats: everything and anything he sniffed out and chewed down on his walks.
Oh but we are our body and our bodies are us.I understand why you, and Xain, believe that. You pour water into your mouth, swallow it and feel it going down your throat. You see the water coming out when you pee. And if you have cirrhosis, your body get cut up for removal of your liver. Is it your liver or the body's liver?
It’s all the body, all things working in concert. There is no distinction between me and the body it’s one and the same. Get with it.
Xain, I have no problem with the body’s existence. It’s your existence that I don’t get. Let’s say it’s time to check out and you hand over your possessions on the way out. You strip down naked and hand in your clothing, then you hand in your skin and flesh, then you hand in your organs. The only thing left now is your skeleton. Who is handing over that skeleton?
I like asking grade school kids this question. They would just stare at me as the struggle with the answer and just burst out laughing. Adults always have a smart ass reply. What’s yours?
If you took all of your veins and laid them end to end, you’d be dead, so you couldn’t measure how long that is.
Xain, I have no problem with the body’s existence. It’s your existence that I don’t get. Let’s say it’s time to check out and you hand over your possessions on the way out. You strip down naked and hand in your clothing, then you hand in your skin and flesh, then you hand in your organs. The only thing left now is your skeleton. Who is handing over that skeleton?This argument shows how little you understand about selfhood. It’s an emergent phenomenon, something that you can’t study by looking at the parts or striping it down. All you listed where the parts but the short answer would be that all of them are me, however I would be dead at that point so technically it wouldn’t be me handing anything over. But if you are looking at it as stripping down of parts then you have lost before the race is won as the self can’t be looked at like that. It’s like how waves can’t be analyzed in terms of the parts that made them. Try again. You are the body.
It’s quite simple but you insist on making it more than what it is. It’s likely because of a fear of death, since this is the same argument Buddhists try to prove you are eternal when they don’t understand emergent phenomenon.