BTW, I have been busy the last couple of days, so haven't been able to do much research on Sobibor “huge mass grave" #4 / 59. Hopefully later today or tomorrow I will be able to get back at things. Until then, here is a question I would like the answer to: #33 - Can you currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that; at least one of the 90 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of... Sobibor... identified by The N.A.F.H. - has actually been located / proven to exist, in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed the scientifically verified remains of more than 6 people - Yes. - or - No. - ??The answer is clearly no, however that doesn't prove hundreds of thousands were not killed there and disposed of elsewhere. More evidence exists for Operation Reinhardt than the possibility it's all Jew propaganda.
I’m sorry Beltane, that question should have read:
#33 - Can you currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that; at least one of the 20 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of… Sobibor… identified by The N.A.F.H. - has actually been located / proven to exist, in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed the scientifically verified remains of more than 6 people - Yes. - or - No. - ??
However, I assume that your answer is still - No.
Beltane:
...however that doesn’t prove hundreds of thousands were not killed there and disposed of elsewhere...Ah yes, the magically disappearing jew theory. Sorry, not buying it.
Citizenschallenge-v.3:
Archeologists recently uncovered the site's hidden gas chambers...But as for the jews themselves (except for just a few) they have all magically disappeared. BTW, I've just learned that The N.A.F.H. may be about to do an update on their site, so I'll put my investigation on hold for a bit.
BTW, I've just learned that The N.A.F.H.Why should we care about what a guy with a blog thinks? Please explain what expertise he/they have? Who are they? What have they published in public journals as opposed to self promulgated conjecture? How much time has he/they spent on-sight? Why should anyone care what NAFH thinks, suggests?
This thread is in need of a musical interlude.
I think this fits the bill:
Fool's Overture, Roger Hodgson - Voice of Supertramp, with Orchestra - YouTube
This thread is in need of a musical interlude. I think this fits the bill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zkzEj7_U98This thread is in need of an answer to this question:
BELZEC, CHELMNO, PONARY, SOBIBOR and TREBLINKA II Are the remains of over 2.1 million jews really buried in the 90 alleged mass graves?Remember what this thread is about Citizenschallenge-v.3:
It is alleged in orthodox historiography that; during WW II - hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of corpses were buried in numerous “huge mass graves" at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II. However, despite all the deceptive claims / allegations / insinuations to the contrary, the simple truth is; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 90 so-called “huge mass graves" alleged to have been scientifically located / proven to currently exist at these five sites - in which actual, verified human remains have literally / truly been physically unearthed / tangibly located by archaeologists / forensic investigators - by means of bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology / forensic science; contains the remains of - ONLY SIX PEOPLE.Unless of course, Citizenschallenge-v.3 can show us one that contains the remains of more than six.![]()
Denzel, do not engage in repetitive reposting of the same questions and points, as it is against the rules. Repetition of questions does not qualify as "responsive discussion". Thanks.
Please note that Denzel ignores all questions asked of him.
Please note Denzel has brought no evidence that offers the slightest legitimacy to his only information source - the little N.A.F.H. who have never published anything learned in any serious publication, to the best of my knowledge based on more internet searching than I would care to admit to.
So who is N.A.F.H. and why should anyone listen to a word they publish?
Particularly since they, you, side step every legitimate question asked of you.
kjq
Jak działają agregaty prądotwórcze? – Sobibór
http://sobibor.info.pl/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/SobibĂłr-Bem-Mazurek-ANG..pdf page 35. Sobibór - archaeological research... workers, as well as the results of a professional evaluation and the inspection of the scene of the crime. The camp was situated in Włodawa Province in Lublin Voivevodship, right next to the Sobibór railway station on the Chełm-Włodawa- Brześć [Brest] route. From the north, south and east, the camp was surrounded by a thin pine forest, which also partly grows in the northern and western ends of the camp. Along the western border of the camp runs the track of the above- mentioned railway route. The Sobibór railway station is also located here, from which, starts a small siding running into the area of the camp. The measurements taken during the court examination showed that the camp had been 58 hectares in size. At present, none of the devices used directly to kill the victims in the camp have remained, whereas a few houses (damaged to a great extent), which served as dwelling houses for the camp personnel have been preserved. In the middle part of the camp, probably in the places meant to hide the ashes, there is a young two-year- old pine forest which occupies about 1200 square metres. Trial diggings have proved that under the layer of sand, there is a one-and-a-half-metre deep layer of ashes and the remains of human bones mixed with sand. Not far from the eastern border of the camp, there was found a pit, 20 x 15 metres, which had formerly contained chloride. One can come across human bones over the whole area of the camp. The results of the expert evaluation also point towards the real function of the camp. Thus, the Institute of Forensic Medicine at Jagiellonian University ruling states that the examined bones are human bones. The Institute of Court Expertise in Cracow ruling says that the sand sampled from the diggings contains an admixture of human bone ashes and fat. In the places where, according to the witnesses’ testimonies, the building containing the gas chambers was located, a certain amount of rubble was found. On the basis of the measurements made during the examination of the place, a plan of the camp area has been drafted. On this, all the remains of the camp have been marked. Apart from that, the files contain a plan of the camp from the period when it was operational, made by former camp prisoners, and sent by the Central Jewish Historical Commission. The site where the rubble was found during the examination, by and large, coincides with the location of the gas chamber drawn upon this reconstruction plan [...] The liquidation of the camp took place after the revolt, in November 1943. All the machinery and metalwork was taken away, while the brick buildings were blown up; even the rubble was removed by train. A forest was planted over part of the camp area [...]18.
It is alleged in orthodox demography that, currently, there are thousands and thousands of stray dogs running around in “huge" neighborhoods all over. However, despite all the deceptive claims/allegations/insinuations to the contrary, the simple truth is; the only (in terms of quantity) of the many so-called “huge neighborhoods" alleged to have these dogs scientifically located/ proven to currently exist at these sites – in which actual, verified dogs have literally/truly been physically found/ tangibly located by dog catchers/forensic investigators – by means of bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented dog science, there is only this one cat.
See, here’s a picture. Checkmate.
Please note that Denzel ignores all questions asked of him. Please note Denzel has brought no evidence that offers the slightest legitimacy to his only information source - the little N.A.F.H. who have never published anything learned in any serious publication, to the best of my knowledge based on more internet searching than I would care to admit to. So who is N.A.F.H. and why should anyone listen to a word they publish? Particularly since they, you, side step every legitimate question asked of you.Citizenschallenge-v.3:
#31 - Can you currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that at least one of the 90 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II identified by The N.A.F.H. - has actually been located / proven to exist, in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed scientifically verified human remains - Yes. - or - No. - ?? #32 - Can you currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that at least one of the 90 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II identified by The N.A.F.H. - has actually been located / proven to exist, in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed at least one pound of scientifically verified human cremains - Yes. - or - No. - ?? #33 - Can you currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that at least one of the 90 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II identified by The N.A.F.H. - has actually been located / proven to exist, in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed the scientifically verified remains of more than 6 people - Yes. - or - No. - ?? #34 - Can you currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that at least one of the 90 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II identified by The N.A.F.H. - has actually been located / proven to exist, in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed the scientifically verified remains of at least 21 people - Yes. - or - No. - ?? http://www.nafcash.com/
It is alleged in orthodox demography that, currently, there are thousands and thousands of stray dogs running around in “huge" neighborhoods all over. However, despite all the deceptive claims/allegations/insinuations to the contrary, the simple truth is; the only (in terms of quantity) of the many so-called “huge neighborhoods" alleged to have these dogs scientifically located/ proven to currently exist at these sites – in which actual, verified dogs have literally/truly been physically found/ tangibly located by dog catchers/forensic investigators – by means of bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented dog science, there is only this one cat. See, here’s a picture. Checkmate.Lausten:
#31 - Can you currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that at least one of the 90 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II identified by The N.A.F.H. - has actually been located / proven to exist, in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed scientifically verified human remains - Yes. - or - No. - ?? #32 - Can you currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that at least one of the 90 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II identified by The N.A.F.H. - has actually been located / proven to exist, in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed at least one pound of scientifically verified human cremains - Yes. - or - No. - ?? #33 - Can you currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that at least one of the 90 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II identified by The N.A.F.H. - has actually been located / proven to exist, in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed the scientifically verified remains of more than 6 people - Yes. - or - No. - ?? #34 - Can you currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that at least one of the 90 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II identified by The N.A.F.H. - has actually been located / proven to exist, in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed the scientifically verified remains of at least 21 people - Yes. - or - No. - ?? http://www.nafcash.com/
Can’t even take a joke.
Please note that Denzel ignores all questions asked of him. Please note Denzel has brought no evidence that offers the slightest legitimacy to his only information source - the little N.A.F.H. who have never published anything learned in any serious publication, to the best of my knowledge based on more internet searching than I would care to admit to. So who is N.A.F.H. and why should anyone listen to a word they publish? Particularly since they, you, side step every legitimate question asked of you.Citizenschallenge-v.3:
#31 - Can you currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that at least one of the 90 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II identified by The N.A.F.H. - has actually been located / proven to exist, in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed scientifically verified human remains - Yes. - or - No. - ?? #32 - Can you currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that at least one of the 90 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II identified by The N.A.F.H. - has actually been located / proven to exist, in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed at least one pound of scientifically verified human cremains - Yes. - or - No. - ?? #33 - Can you currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that at least one of the 90 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II identified by The N.A.F.H. - has actually been located / proven to exist, in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed the scientifically verified remains of more than 6 people - Yes. - or - No. - ?? #34 - Can you currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that at least one of the 90 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II identified by The N.A.F.H. - has actually been located / proven to exist, in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed the scientifically verified remains of at least 21 people - Yes. - or - No. - ?? http://www.nafcash.com/As has been noted above, Denzel, do not engage in repetitive reposting of the same questions and points, as it is against the rules. Repetition of questions does not qualify as “responsive discussion". Further nonresponsive discussion in this matter may lead to banning. Thanks.
I’d just like to know what Denzel’s point is. What does he think the photos and text he submitted eally mean? How about it Denzel? Care to explain it in standard English sentences?
Lois
I’d just like to know what Denzel’s point is...The point is LoisL, after looking into the following statement:
It is alleged in orthodox historiography that; during WW II - hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of corpses were buried in numerous “huge mass graves" at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II. However, despite all the deceptive claims / allegations / insinuations to the contrary, the simple truth is; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 94 so-called “huge mass graves" alleged to have been scientifically located / proven to currently exist at these five sites - in which actual, verified human remains have literally / truly been physically unearthed / tangibly located by archaeologists / forensic investigators - by means of bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology / forensic science; contains the remains of - ONLY SIX PEOPLE.it appears to be true. Unless you can show me otherwise.
I’d just like to know what Denzel’s point is...The point is LoisL, after looking into the following statement:
It is alleged in orthodox historiography that; during WW II - hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of corpses were buried in numerous “huge mass graves" at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II. However, despite all the deceptive claims / allegations / insinuations to the contrary, the simple truth is; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 94 so-called “huge mass graves" alleged to have been scientifically located / proven to currently exist at these five sites - in which actual, verified human remains have literally / truly been physically unearthed / tangibly located by archaeologists / forensic investigators - by means of bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology / forensic science; contains the remains of - ONLY SIX PEOPLE.it appears to be true. Unless you can show me otherwise. Not sure if you are yanking his chain or not Lois. His fallacy is https://logfall.wordpress.com/absence-of-evidence-fallacy/ He doesn't care much for evidence at all, or know how to handle it. For example he says because there is human hair mixed in with the ash remains, that proves humans weren't burned, or that it's somehow faked evidence. He could test this in a fire in his backyard if he wanted to. Get a good hot fire going then throw a stack of newspaper on it. Fire needs the heat plus oxygen. The outside of that stack of paper will burn but you can leave it there for hours, until you stir it up and allow air into the inside, you could pull the paper out and read it.
I’d just like to know what Denzel’s point is...The point is LoisL, after looking into the following statement:
It is alleged in orthodox historiography that; during WW II - hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of corpses were buried in numerous “huge mass graves" at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II. However, despite all the deceptive claims / allegations / insinuations to the contrary, the simple truth is; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 94 so-called “huge mass graves" alleged to have been scientifically located / proven to currently exist at these five sites - in which actual, verified human remains have literally / truly been physically unearthed / tangibly located by archaeologists / forensic investigators - by means of bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology / forensic science; contains the remains of - ONLY SIX PEOPLE.it appears to be true. Unless you can show me otherwise. Not sure if you are yanking his chain or not Lois. His fallacy is https://logfall.wordpress.com/absence-of-evidence-fallacy/ He doesn't care much for evidence at all, or know how to handle it. For example he says because there is human hair mixed in with the ash remains, that proves humans weren't burned, or that it's somehow faked evidence. He could test this in a fire in his backyard if he wanted to. Get a good hot fire going then throw a stack of newspaper on it. Fire needs the heat plus oxygen. The outside of that stack of paper will burn but you can leave it there for hours, until you stir it up and allow air into the inside, you could pull the paper out and read it. There is no fallacy in this statement Lausten:
It is alleged in orthodox historiography that; during WW II - hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of corpses were buried in numerous “huge mass graves" at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II. However, despite all the deceptive claims / allegations / insinuations to the contrary, the simple truth is; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 94 so-called “huge mass graves" alleged to have been scientifically located / proven to currently exist at these five sites - in which actual, verified human remains have literally / truly been physically unearthed / tangibly located by archaeologists / forensic investigators - by means of bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology / forensic science; contains the remains of - ONLY SIX PEOPLE.Unless you can show us one that's larger.
Lausten,
#50 - Do you deny that 2,120,000 divided by 94 equals - 22,553.1915 - Yes. - or - No. - ??
Lausten:
He doesn't care much for evidence at all, or know how to handle it.
WHAT PHYSICAL EVIDENCE? - ...over the years, there have been no less than five claimed so-called “crime scene investigations" of Treblinka II, and a number of claimed investigations at the other four sites as well - yet to date, it can still be categorically stated that; archaeologists / forensic investigators cannot prove the existence of even one mass grave at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor or Treblinka II that contains so-much-as - 1 / 1,000 of 1% - of the alleged buried remains - NOT ONE! http://www.nafcash.com/Unless Lausten can show us one that’s larger.