I’ll have to try to do this differently. Let’s just move on to the next fraudulently alleged “huge mass grave:”
“Memory Hill" (AKA the - “mound of ashes / remains") = Sobibor “huge mass grave" #3 / 58
Lausten:
It is known, via a preponderance of scientific evidence, that… at Sobibor… currently there are ashes and remains of _hundreds of thousands_ of people… It is known - via a preponderance of scientific evidence - that; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 20 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Sobibor identified by The N.A.F.H. - currently contains the remains of no less than __hundreds of thousands__ people.Is this where they are Lausten? It is known - via a preponderance of scientific evidence - that; Sobibor “huge mass grave" #3 / 58 (AKA “Memory Hill" and the “mound of ashes / remains") - currently contains the remains of no less than __?__ people. Lausten, why is Sobibor “huge mass grave" #3 / 58 now being called “Memory Hill" rather than the “mound of ashes / remains"?
Lausten:I already linked https://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/or10-graves-sobibor/ which has references you can check at the bottom. Don't expect me to keep doing this work for you. Also, the guy you keep showing in the pictures has done a lot of work that you don't show here. I would say that you probably already know that, but I have met people in person who can be shown information but somehow manage to not absorb it. I'm pretty sure you are one of those people. When you see something that doesn't agree with you, you assume it is wrong or a lie or a purposeful cover up of the truth that you know. You have not developed skills for determining what is fact or fiction. You are unwilling to question a conclusion you made. All truth is contingent on new data, and you don't accept new data or don't know what to do with it.It is known, via a preponderance of scientific evidence, that... at Sobibor... currently there are ashes and remains of _hundreds of thousands_ of people...Then let's see the scientific evidence that you base that allegation on.
§¶
DEAR MODERATOR, YOU HAVE BEEN PETITIONED TO MOVE THIS THREAD OVER TO A MORE APPROPRIATE BOARD,
SPECIFICALLY “Pseudoscience and The Paranormal”
CAN ANYONE SHOW WHAT ANY OF THIS REPETITIVE MALICIOUSLY NASTY THREAD HAS TO DO WITH SCIENCE.
IN SCIENCE YOU ACKNOWLEDGED AND ABSORB NEW INFORMATION - DENZEL IS NOTHING BUT A BROKEN RECORD - THAT IS NOT SCIENCE
The point of administration on this Forum is to moderate debate, not to adjudicate who is right and wrong, no matter how offensive the argument may be to those with a sense of ethics. Many such debates on this forum have been and continue to be offensive in just that way to me personally. If you find a discussion tedious or offensive you can always mute it or decide not to read it. Unfortunately I cannot.Doug, This isn't about offensive, or tense, this is about an important POINT OF ORDER. This is a discussion forum with specific boards dedicated to specific categories of topics. To be on the SCIENCE board ought to carry a certain responsibility. Namely, following the standards of science. Denzel does not practice basic science - His single question inquiry is rigid and contrived to be impossible to answer because every serious answer fails Denzels' contrived set of rules - that is not science He ignores contra evidence - that is not science I am not asking you to adjudicate “who is right and wrong" I’m pointing out that Denzel’s OP and following behavior has absolutely nothing to do with scientific inquiry and he's in the wrong place. Occasionally threads do moved from one category to another - the discussion does not stop - it's simply location in a more appropriate neighborhood. Or can you correct me and point out how or where Denzel’s OP represents “Science" or that it shows the least deference to the rules and ethics of serious inquiry and science. If you are in the Science category shouldn’t we at least give lip service to the principles of science and constructive debate and learning ??? I am not disputing Denzel’s right to challenge us with his schtick. Let him play his game, I’m simply petitioning that this discussion be put where it belongs: “Pseudoscience and The Paranormal" Doug, I have much respect for you, that's is why I'm reasoning with you. This is not about personal or hurt feelings or tension, it's about what I've shared above ... Best wishes, Peter
§¶ DENZEL IS NOTHING BUT A BROKEN RECORD - THAT IS NOT SCIENCETo repeat: The point of administration on this Forum is to moderate debate, not to adjudicate who is right and wrong. The OP has framed this as an issue of forensic archaeology, which at least prima facie is scientific. If you don't like the content of the OP's arguments, I would encourage you to rebut them. They certainly seem to me entirely specious and ethically bankrupt. But I would not encourage you to keep playing the refs on this issue, since it is against the rules.
The National Association of Forensic Historians website ...Have you tried googling them - nothing other than their blog appears, sometimes Holohoax blogs - with wording like that, you want us to take them seriously? No background information. Though I did find this from within the communitySEPTEMBER 22, 2009 The Old Chimp and his Apprentice Author: Roberto Muehlenkamp http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. com/2009/09/old-chimp-and-his-apprentice.html ... Gerdes is the "president", and apparently also the only member, of an association that now calls itself the "National Association of Forensic Historians" (it used to be "National Association of Forensic Criminologists, Archaeologists, Skeptics and Historians" – "National Association of Fish-Wives, Cretins and Screaming Hysterics" would have been more appropriate, as the president fulfills all membership requirements) and hosts a website that is hard to match for paranoid hollering and colorful hysteria even in "Revisionist" cloud-cuckoo-land. On this website Gerdes announces a reward of $ 100,000 for "locating / proving the existence of just one grave that contains just one tenth of one percent of the alleged mass murder" at either Treblinka or Sobibor extermination camp. Applicants to the reward are supposed to submit their evidence in an article published in SKEPTIC magazine ("Therefore, all one has to do to become an applicant for THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE TM reward, is to have said claims / results first published in "SKEPTIC" Magazine"), and of course the reward offer is a big fat hoax, already because it is nowhere stated what evidence the NAFH would accept as fulfilling the requirements of its "challenge" and entitling the applicant to the reward (one would also not expect characters like Gerdes and his hillbilly friends to put together anything like $ 100,000, of course – they probably can barely manage to pay their trailer park rents). I accepted this "challenge" in a previous version (which still included Belzec and Chelmno extermination camps IIRC - both have since vanished for some reason) but have not yet claimed the reward, even though I'm positive that the eyewitness, documentary and physical evidence I can show would convince any historian or any court of justice in Germany or the US that the remains of a number of human beings immensely higher than Gerdes’ idiotic "one tenth of one per cent" lie in the soil of both Sobibor and Treblinka and am also able to locate at least four of the Sobibor mass graves. The main reason why I have not yet claimed the reward is known to who has been following my discussions with Gerdes and was last expressed in my post # 2089 on the VNN thread Archeological Investigations of Treblinka: Gerdes persistently refused to state what evidence he would accept as proof meeting the requirements for claiming the reward, running away from every question in this sense or responding with meaningless hysterical "what part of the word 'proof' do you not understand" – screams.Mass Graves at Sobibor – 10th Update http://codoh.blogspot.com/2008/10/ But the reason for my going to Sobibor was not, or not only, an expected confrontation with this scum of mankind. I had booked the trip in the hope that there would be excavations by the Sobibor Archaeological Project at this time, and when this hope did not materialize, I decided that it would nevertheless be worthwhile to familiarize myself with the location and see what the mass grave areas identified in 2001 by Prof. Andrzej Kola and partially visible on air and satellite photographs, which are the subject of this article, looked like from ground perspective. I also wanted to check the accuracy of information on the Wikipedia page about Sobibor, referred to in this article's 3rd Update, that "close to the burial pits, bone fragments still litter the area". What I found on site is recorded in the photographs and stills from video films available on the RODOH thread My Trip to Sobibor. The bone fragments I came upon in some parts of the area around the "ash mountain" memorial, especially by the path leading to the memorial and in places where soil had been dug up by wild animals or by robbery diggers, confirmed the Wikipedia information quoted above. I therefore inserted a footnote reference to the aforementioned RODOH thread on the Wikipedia page. Below are some of the photos of bone fragments I took at Sobibor.Here's an interesting overview of the "fair and balance" dialogue going on.Showing posts with label censorship by deniers. http://codoh.blogspot.com/search/label/censorship by deniersOh and to take a stab at your question again - how about the need to hear what the other side (history and evidence) has to say about the disgusting topic.
We've looked at 20% of the 20 claimed / alleged / insinuated - discernable / measurable extant graves of Sobibor identified by The N.A.F.H., and we've seen ZERO pounds of cremated remains and 9 skeletons.Why do you think you should find cremated bones together with pristine skeletons? There were many killings - who say's your picture is even a camp victims, a fair number never made it to the camps and were buried enroute. You have provided not one shred of evidence to tell us the story behind that particular grave. Worst you don't think you are under any obligation to do so. People are simply supposed to believe your opinion if we can't answer you're contrived question. That's not science, that is pseudoscience! Oh and of course there is stuff like this that isn't too difficult to find.
Holocaust Denial On Trial https://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/or10-graves-sobibor/ How do we know the size of the extermination area in the death camp of Sobibor was large enough to contain the mass graves? Holocaust deniers claim: The size of the extermination area of the Operation Reinhard death camp of Sobibor is too small to have accommodated the number of bodies of the alleged victims. The facts are: Modern forensic and archeological investigations at Sobibor show that there are at least 7 mass graves in the camp, the size and volume of which are more than sufficient to accommodate the number of victims. Holocaust deniers claim that it is not possible that the Germans could have “buried roughly the equivalent to the stadium spectators of the Rose Bowl game" (about 80,000 people) in the Sobibor death camp in a mass grave only a little larger than “a henhouse."[1] For example, the self-named “Denierbud," an American Holocaust denier video maker, claims that Karl Frenzel, an SS guard in Sobibor, was convicted partly based on flimsy evidence about this impossibly tiny grave. Denierbud makes the same faulty assumptions as he did for the graves in the death camps of Belzec and Treblinka. Denierbud’s calculations about the size and volume of the mass graves at Sobibor are based on the same faulty assumptions as those he cobbled together for Belzec and Treblinka. First, the area he calculates that would be required for each body is not representative of the average size or mass of the victim in these camps. Second, he makes assumptions about the way the remains would have been thrown into the graves in a way that actually wastes the space that was available. Finally, he uses a map that is not scaled as to the size or distance between objects shown on it. Therefore, they cannot be used as Denierbud does to draw conclusions about size and space. The evidence about the extermination area and the mass graves in the death camp of Sobibor. Karl Bolender, an SS guard at Sobibor, recalled: “The Jewish working brigade put the corpses into rectangularly boarded trolleys and drove them to the mass grave. A mass grave may have been approx. 60 m long, 20 m wide and 6-7 m deep [about 197 feet long by 66 feet wide by 29 to 23 feet deep.] The side walls were sloped like an embankment to avoid the danger of collapse." In a later interrogation, Bolden spoke of a second pit: “. . . we put corpses in this second pit even before its completion. Above the first pit a layer of sand was spread. After this pit was completely full, the other corpses had to be put somewhere, even though we were not yet finished with the new pit."[2] Bolender’s recollection is in accord with preliminary excavations on the grounds of Sobibor in 2001 conducted by Andrzej Kola, who found seven mass graves, the largest grave of which was 64 meters by 23 feet by 4.5 meters deep (210 feet by 75 feet by 15 feet deep.) The others measured 18 meters by 23 meters by 4.5 meters deep (60 feet by 75 feet by 15 feet deep.)[3] Ben-Gurion University conducted a thorough archeological study of Sobibor in 2001, 2007 and 2008. They have confirmed the existence of at least seven mass graves. The graves are of varying sizes and they found them to be “heavily mixed with ashes and burnt materials and artifacts."[4] In fact, even today the area around the memorial shows distinct traces of darker green grass indicating the areas of the mass graves. The locations of the seven mass graves can be seen even better from the air. When Isaac Gilead, Yoram Haimi and Wojciech Mazurek carried out investigations on the Sobibor site, they included in their report aerial photos taken of the camp site showing the clearing around the ash memorial and several deeper green areas indicating the mass graves.[5] Conclusion Denierbud’s claim that the only mass grave in the death camp of Sobibor was a little larger than a “hen house" is false. He employs the same faulty assumptions he used when calculating the capacity of the mass graves in Belzec and Treblinka, arriving at an inflated volume needed for the mass graves, and then applying his overstated calculations on an unscaled map. There were at least seven mass graves in Sobibor and that was plenty of room in the extermination area for both the graves and the incineration grills.
The Darkest Truths After the Nazis' three so-called Operation Reinhard camps swallowed more than a million and a half Jewish lives, the camps were themselves destroyed. Forensic archaeologists are finally exploring what lies beneath the earth—but not without resistance. ELIZABETH SVOBODA / 4 FEB 2016 https://www.sapiens.org/archaeology/the-darkest-truths/A Voice for the Dead Recovering the Lost History of Sobibór http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/the-archeological-excavations-that-led-to-the-gas-chambers-of-sobibor-a-993733.html Henchman with the Nazi SS sought to cover up the mass murder that occurred at the Sobibór concentration camp in eastern Poland. Archeologists recently uncovered the site's hidden gas chambers and important artifacts that shed light on the victims. By Claus Hecking ... In contrast to Auschwitz, Sobibór, Belzec and Treblinka were extermination camps from day one, with very few of the new arrivals used in forced labor. The vast majority were sent directly from the freight trains to their deaths in the gas chambers using a cruelly elaborate logistical system. An estimate 1.4 million Jews from Poland, the Netherlands, Germany and other countries perished in the three camps, more than in Auschwitz-Birkenau, the concentration camp that became the symbol of industrialized mass murder. And unlike Auschwitz, no barracks or mountains of glasses, shoes and human hair or visible remains of extermination facilities were left behind in Operation Reinhardt. In the middle of the war, the Nazi criminals made a point of eliminating any traces of their own after they had killed the Jews. Between November 1942 and December 1943, the Nazis exhumed bodes, killed almost all of the remaining prisoners at the three camps and burned any of the human remains still detectable. The killers destroyed plans, documents and stripped the buildings down to their foundations, even carrying the rubble away. They leveled structures, planted forests and established farms. Operation Reinhardt was top-secret and it was meant to be the perfect crime. ... ... ... An Open Field of Bodies A few dozen steps away from the excavations, the archeologists kneels down to the ground and lifts small white fragments filled with holes. "These are all bone fragments -- there was a crematorium here," he says. "When they are entirely white, it shows the fire was especially hot." Even today, Sobibór remains an open field of bodies. ...In other words, this image you've built your obsession on probably weren't even camp victims. Those were extermination camps, bodies destroyed then remains buried, no one got buried whole, it appears from what other more serious individuals have reported on it.
¶
Further reading:http://sobibor.info.pl/?page_id=331#PhotoSwipe1514910654111 http://sobibor.info.pl/?page_id=331Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka Holocaust Denial and Operation Reinhard A Critique of the Falsehoods of Mattogno, Graf and Kues http://www.academia.edu/7069909/Belzec_Sobibor_Treblinka._Holocaust_Denial_and_Operation_Reinhard._A_Critique_of_the_Falsehoods_of_Mattogno_Graf_and_KuesWeird infighting amongst the revisionistsEx-Denier Eric Hunt lectures Fritz Berg on the Holocaust https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLQrEIL_B6s
Denying the Holocaust By Deborah Lipstadt Last updated 2011-02-17 Deborah Lipstadt discusses how misinformation and false claims are used to question the reality of the Nazis’ attempt to exterminate Europe’s Jews. http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/genocide/deniers_01.shtml========= ∞
https://www.ted.com/talks/deborah_lipstadt_behind_the_lies_of_holocaust_denial
How Holocaust Denial Works What motivates some people to reject the overwhelming historical evidence and claim the Holocaust never occurred? https://www.snopes.com/2017/04/17/how-holocaust-denial-works/ By David Emery 14 April 2017~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The N.A.F.H. website at "nafcash . com" https://www.whois.com/whois/nafcash.com National Association of Forensic Historians an outfit that runs out of a Metairie, Louisiana post office box. Hmmm. REGISTRANT CONTACT Name:Direct Privacy Organization:Domain Name Proxy Service, Inc Privacy ID#... Hmmm.
Fact Checking The N.A.F.H. https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=7890
Ok, so Sobior “huge mass grave” #3 / 58, AKA “the mound of ashes / remains”
is yet another of the 20 “huge mass graves” of Sobibor that cannot be proven to contain the remains of more than 6 people that I’m looking for.
This is starting to look pretty bad for the hysterical true-believers infesting this thread.
11 down and 9 to go.
Here are the “huge mass graves” of Sobibor that we have investigated to date:
#1 = Sobibor “huge mass grave" #1 / 56 Admitted by Yoram Haimi that: "Graves 1 and 2 are not mass graves." #2 = Sobibor “huge mass grave" #2 / 57 Admitted by Yoram Haimi that: "Graves 1 and 2 are not mass graves." #3 = Sobibor "huge mass grave" #3 / 58 Not an iota of human remains proven to exist in it. #5 = Sobibor “huge mass grave" #5 / 60 It is alleged to have hair in it. (It must be magic hair, because non-magic hair burns during cremation.) #8/15 (8) = Sobibor “huge mass grave" #8 / 63 Admitted by Yoram Haimi that it: "Lacks the remains of bones." #12 = Sobibor “huge mass grave" #12 / 67 Proven to contain 6 skeletons. #13 = Sobibor “huge mass grave" #13 / 68 Proven to contain 1 skeleton. #14 = Sobibor “huge mass grave" #14 / 69 Proven to contain 1 skeleton. #16 = Sobibor “huge mass grave" #16 / 71 Proven to contain 2 skeletons. #17 = Sobibor “huge mass grave" #17 / 72 A well that magically transformed into a "huge mass grave." #18 = Sobibor “huge mass grave" #18 / 73 A refuse pit that magically transformed into a "huge mass grave."So after examining 11 of the so-called "huge mass graves" of Sobibor, we find a grand total of 10 proven to exist skeletons and some small amount of alleged magical hair, along with a magical well and a magical refuse pit. That must mean that the remaining 249,990 jews are buried in the remaining 9 "huge mass graves." Or not. Up next: Sobibor “huge mass grave" #4 / 59. I will be looking for photos and info to share in my next post. I think this would be a good time to remind everyone what my updated OP is:
Is this the largest mass grave (in terms of quantity of remains) ever proven to exist at SobiborSo far, the truthful answer is: Yes.Yes or no?
Doug:
If you don’t like the content of the OP’s arguments, I would encourage you to rebut them.Now that is what I would call good advice. (See the above post.) Thank you. BTW, #3/4 in the map below = Sobibor “huge mass grave" #4 / 59 http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/cortagravatas/media/cGF0aDpTb2JpYm9yL0hhaW1pIDIwMTMgRmlnLiA2X3pwc281YWFhZnl6LmpwZw==/?ref=
The Darkest Truths After the Nazis' three so-called Operation Reinhard camps swallowed more than a million and a half Jewish lives, the camps were themselves destroyed. Forensic archaeologists are finally exploring what lies beneath the earth—but not without resistance. ELIZABETH SVOBODA / 4 FEB 2016 https://www.sapiens.org/archaeology/the-darkest-truths/A Voice for the Dead Recovering the Lost History of Sobibór http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/the-archeological-excavations-that-led-to-the-gas-chambers-of-sobibor-a-993733.html Henchman with the Nazi SS sought to cover up the mass murder that occurred at the Sobibór concentration camp in eastern Poland. Archeologists recently uncovered the site's hidden gas chambers and important artifacts that shed light on the victims. By Claus Hecking ... In contrast to Auschwitz, Sobibór, Belzec and Treblinka were extermination camps from day one, with very few of the new arrivals used in forced labor. The vast majority were sent directly from the freight trains to their deaths in the gas chambers using a cruelly elaborate logistical system. An estimate 1.4 million Jews from Poland, the Netherlands, Germany and other countries perished in the three camps, more than in Auschwitz-Birkenau, the concentration camp that became the symbol of industrialized mass murder. And unlike Auschwitz, no barracks or mountains of glasses, shoes and human hair or visible remains of extermination facilities were left behind in Operation Reinhardt. In the middle of the war, the Nazi criminals made a point of eliminating any traces of their own after they had killed the Jews. Between November 1942 and December 1943, the Nazis exhumed bodes, killed almost all of the remaining prisoners at the three camps and burned any of the human remains still detectable. The killers destroyed plans, documents and stripped the buildings down to their foundations, even carrying the rubble away. They leveled structures, planted forests and established farms. Operation Reinhardt was top-secret and it was meant to be the perfect crime. ... ... ... An Open Field of Bodies A few dozen steps away from the excavations, the archeologists kneels down to the ground and lifts small white fragments filled with holes. "These are all bone fragments -- there was a crematorium here," he says. "When they are entirely white, it shows the fire was especially hot." Even today, Sobibór remains an open field of bodies. ...In other words, this image you've built your obsession on probably weren't even camp victims. Those were extermination camps, bodies destroyed then remains buried, no one got buried whole, it appears from what other more serious individuals have reported on it.
Between November 1942 and December 1943, the Nazis exhumed bodes, killed almost all of the remaining prisoners at the three camps and burned any of the human remains still detectable... Operation Reinhardt was top-secret and it was meant to be the perfect crime.Ah yes, the magically disappearing jew theory. Sorry, not buying it. I agree with - The National Association of Forensic Historians:
Remember: If the alleged Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II “holocausts" really did happen, then there actually would be numerous discernable extant huge mass graves filled with the remains of hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of people to prove it. So this is not a historical issue per se; this is clearly about - SCIENCE - and all that is being done here is the common-sense act of simply asking to see the alleged “archaeological proof" that the weak-minded true-believers insist is so “undeniable." (Remember also - legitimate scientists do not refuse to answer pertinent questions about their claimed discoveries.) ... Last note: Not one person who espouses the orthodox stories of these five so-called “holocausts within the holocaust" and/or has fallen for the big “scientifically proven" lie, has ever mustered the courage / integrity / character to accept - The C.S.I. or The U.S. Courtroom Challenge. In fact, the very “scientists" involved in this transparent criminal charade - like cornered rats - cravenly avoid The N.A.F.H. challenges like the plague. (What does that tell you?) And don’t forget: 4 out of the 90 so-called “huge mass graves" have actually been located / proven to exist and to conclusively contain human remains - so why won’t the craven, delusional true-believers invalidate the so-called “holocaust deniers" by proving the claims / allegations / insinuations made about the other 86? What are they so afraid of? (They’re terrified - because they know they have been forensically cornered - and by accepting these challenges, they’ll expose who the real deniers / liars are.) http://www.nafcash.com/
BTW, I have been busy the last couple of days, so haven’t been able to do much research on Sobibor “huge mass grave" #4 / 59.
Hopefully later today or tomorrow I will be able to get back at things.
Until then, here is a question I would like the answer to:
#33 - Can you currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that; at least one of the 90 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of… Sobibor… identified by The N.A.F.H. - has actually been located / proven to exist, in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed the scientifically verified remains of more than 6 people - Yes. - or - No. - ??
A friend just pointed out something to me. Even if every one of the 90 alleged “huge mass graves” of Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II really did exist and really did contain human remains, each would contain, on average, the remains of 23,555.5 jews! (Remember, we are only figuring the number of fraudulently alleged buried jews here - there are tens of thousands of non-jews alleged to be buried in these “graves" as well.)
And yet:
The simple truth is; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 90 so-called “huge mass graves" alleged to have been scientifically located / proven to currently exist at these five sites - in which actual, verified human remains have literally / truly been physically unearthed / tangibly located by archaeologists / forensic investigators - by means of bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology / forensic science; contains the remains of - ONLY SIX PEOPLE.As it also states on The National Association of Forensic Historians website:
You need only to open your eyes to see through the jews transparent “holocaust archaeology" lies. By examining each “huge mass grave" allegation separately, an intelligent person can easily see how vacuous and fraudulent the jews “scientifically proven" - mass grave shell game - really is.
You need only to open your eyes to see....If there was a scoring system for conspiracy websites, there would be points for every time this phrase appeared.
Recovering the Lost History of Sobibór Henchman with the Nazi SS sought to cover up the mass murder that occurred at the Sobibór concentration camp in eastern Poland. Archeologists recently uncovered the site's hidden gas chambers and important artifacts that shed light on the victims. By Claus Hecking http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/the-archeological-excavations-that-led-to-the-gas-chambers-of-sobibor-a-993733.html ... In contrast to Auschwitz, Sobibór, Belzec and Treblinka were extermination camps from day one, with very few of the new arrivals used in forced labor. The vast majority were sent directly from the freight trains to their deaths in the gas chambers using a cruelly elaborate logistical system. An estimate 1.4 million Jews from Poland, the Netherlands, Germany and other countries perished in the three camps, more than in Auschwitz-Birkenau, the concentration camp that became the symbol of industrialized mass murder. And unlike Auschwitz, no barracks or mountains of glasses, shoes and human hair or visible remains of extermination facilities were left behind in Operation Reinhardt. In the middle of the war, the Nazi criminals made a point of eliminating any traces of their own after they had killed the Jews. Between November 1942 and December 1943, the Nazis exhumed bodes, killed almost all of the remaining prisoners at the three camps and burned any of the human remains still detectable. The killers destroyed plans, documents and stripped the buildings down to their foundations, even carrying the rubble away. They leveled structures, planted forests and established farms. Operation Reinhardt was top-secret and it was meant to be the perfect crime. Few Witnesses and Few Images The murderous apparatus proved extremely efficient. Around 30 SS officers and 120 Eastern Europeans "volunteers," including John Demjankuk, the man convicted in Germany in 2011 for serving as a guard at the camp, were sufficient for the murder of 170,000 to 250,000 Jews in Sobibór. The only people who survived the war from the camp were 50 who broke out during an insurgency. In Treblinka, close to 800,000 people were murdered, with only 60 survivors. In Belzec, where more than 430,000 people were killed, a mere eight survived. This has contributed to the fact that Sobibór is far less known, and far less infamous, than Auschwitz. There are manifest reasons for this, including the fact that there were fewer witnesses to share their stories and because fewer photos have been found documenting the three death camps. Also because not a single gas chamber had been uncovered until the finding in Sobibór this month. ...
Recovering the Lost History of Sobibór Henchman with the Nazi SS sought to cover up the mass murder that occurred at the Sobibór concentration camp in eastern Poland. Archeologists recently uncovered the site's hidden gas chambers and important artifacts that shed light on the victims. By Claus Hecking http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/the-archeological-excavations-that-led-to-the-gas-chambers-of-sobibor-a-993733.html ... An Open Field of Bodies A few dozen steps away from the excavations, the archeologists kneels down to the ground and lifts small white fragments filled with holes. "These are all bone fragments -- there was a crematorium here," he says. "When they are entirely white, it shows the fire was especially hot." Even today, Sobibór remains an open field of bodies. Next year, construction is slated to begin here on a new, €7 million memorial surrounding the foundations. After an extended tug of war, the governments of Poland, the Netherlands and Germany will be providing financing. Under Germany's previous government, there had been a debate about whether to participate, but Chancellor Angela Merkel's new administration recently gave the green light -- and none too soon. Last year, a statement made by a senior official in the German Foreign Ministry underscored just how little is known about Sobibór, despite the scale of war crimes committed here. The official said that no Germans had been among the prisoners at the death camp, but in truth several thousand German Jews were murdered there. ...