Lausten:
One picture from one guy does not answer any of those questions.Let's not get ahead of ourselves here Lausten. Let's answer this simple question first: Is this the largest mass grave ever proven to exist at BELZEC, CHELMNO, PONARY, SOBIBOR or TREBLINKA II?
Citizenschallenge-v.3:
...what constituted "proof", needless to say, was entirely up to Gerdes to dictate.Please don't post lies in this thread Citizenschallenge-v.3. As anyone can easily see, The National Association of Forensic Historians specifically says what it will accept as proof:
$1,000.00 - will be remitted for each one of the 89 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant “huge mass graves" of Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II that have been identified by The N.A.F.H. - that have been scientifically proven to actually exist and to currently contain the remains of at least 21 people. To begin the incredibly easy process of laying claim to each / any reward - and to set any / all required rules: First - Potential claimants must contact The N.A.F.H. and submit their 57 answers to Part One of the - Mass Graves / Buried Remains Forensic Evaluation Form: ... Second - Potential claimants must then request and confirm receipt of the official rules. Third - Potential claimants must then post their alleged proof on an approved website. Fourth - If a potential claimant can get Michael Shermer to categorically endorse their eligibly submitted proof (by explicitly stating that said posted proof meets his own, Skeptic Magazine’s and The Skeptics Society’s expressed and implied standards of proof) - the claimant will receive the promised cash reward. http://www.nafcash.com/
The National Association of Forensic Historians website also contains this:
Also note: For those weak-willed true-believers who lack the intelligence, courage, integrity and character to accept - The C.S.I. Challenge; The N.A.F.H. also offers - a monetary reward for simply identifying / proving any untrue statement of fact found on this webpage. Potential claimants for this reward need only to seek endorsement from The N.A.F.H. Proviso: Potential claimants - must publicly pledge to take the matter to court - (sans a jury and both sides pro se legal representation) if they disagree with - The N.A.F.H. final ruling. Which begs the simple question: Why, if the delusional true-believers are so desperate to end “holocaust denial" that they have gotten it criminalized in numerous countries of the world, do they cravenly refuse to take advantage of this golden opportunity to have their so-called “undeniable scientific proof" for the existence of these illusory “huge mass graves" judicially validated in the U.S. via this incredibly simple, easy and inexpensive - U. S. Courtroom Challenge?
Citizenschallenge-v.3:
Weird infighting amongst the revisionistsCitizenschallenge-v.3, why are you so desperately trying to misdirect this thread from the OP? Is this the largest mass grave ever proven to exist at BELZEC, CHELMNO, PONARY, SOBIBOR or TREBLINKA II?
Hopefully we can now focus on what I set out to find.
The National Association of Forensic Historians website has this as its opening statement:
BELZEC, CHELMNO, PONARY, SOBIBOR and TREBLINKA II Are the remains of over 2.1 million jews really buried in the 89 alleged mass graves? It is alleged in orthodox historiography that; during WW II - hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of corpses were buried in numerous “huge mass graves" at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II. However, despite all the deceptive claims / allegations / insinuations to the contrary, the simple truth is; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 89 so-called “huge mass graves" alleged to have been scientifically located / proven to currently exist at these five sites - in which actual, verified human remains have literally / truly been physically unearthed / tangibly located by archaeologists / forensic investigators - by means of bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology / forensic science; contains the remains of - ONLY SIX PEOPLE.I would like to see the scientific proof that there is a grave in one of those locations that currently contains the remains of at least 7 people.
Is it because you're afraid of what the answer is?No, it's because I despise con artists and the games they play. It's always fun playing game with an uninformed audience. We don't know squat about that picture or where or when it was taken and you haven't offered any background. Demanding expert answers from non experts is a typical con-artist move. It does not impress. What about these?
Denying the Holocaust By Deborah Lipstadt Last updated 2011-02-17 Deborah Lipstadt discusses how misinformation and false claims are used to question the reality of the Nazis' attempt to exterminate Europe's Jews. http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/genocide/deniers_01.shtmlIncidentally, what are you doing here? Are you denying the holocaust happened, or are you just a head-fuk for the fun of it?
Yes or no?
∞
The National Association of Forensic Historians website ...Have you tried googling them - nothing other than their blog appears, sometimes Holohoax blogs - with wording like that, you want us to take them seriously? No background information. Though I did find this from within the community
SEPTEMBER 22, 2009 The Old Chimp and his Apprentice Author: Roberto Muehlenkamp http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. com/2009/09/old-chimp-and-his-apprentice.html ... Gerdes is the "president", and apparently also the only member, of an association that now calls itself the "National Association of Forensic Historians" (it used to be "National Association of Forensic Criminologists, Archaeologists, Skeptics and Historians" – "National Association of Fish-Wives, Cretins and Screaming Hysterics" would have been more appropriate, as the president fulfills all membership requirements) and hosts a website that is hard to match for paranoid hollering and colorful hysteria even in "Revisionist" cloud-cuckoo-land. On this website Gerdes announces a reward of $ 100,000 for "locating / proving the existence of just one grave that contains just one tenth of one percent of the alleged mass murder" at either Treblinka or Sobibor extermination camp. Applicants to the reward are supposed to submit their evidence in an article published in SKEPTIC magazine ("Therefore, all one has to do to become an applicant for THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE TM reward, is to have said claims / results first published in "SKEPTIC" Magazine"), and of course the reward offer is a big fat hoax, already because it is nowhere stated what evidence the NAFH would accept as fulfilling the requirements of its "challenge" and entitling the applicant to the reward (one would also not expect characters like Gerdes and his hillbilly friends to put together anything like $ 100,000, of course – they probably can barely manage to pay their trailer park rents). I accepted this "challenge" in a previous version (which still included Belzec and Chelmno extermination camps IIRC - both have since vanished for some reason) but have not yet claimed the reward, even though I'm positive that the eyewitness, documentary and physical evidence I can show would convince any historian or any court of justice in Germany or the US that the remains of a number of human beings immensely higher than Gerdes’ idiotic "one tenth of one per cent" lie in the soil of both Sobibor and Treblinka and am also able to locate at least four of the Sobibor mass graves. The main reason why I have not yet claimed the reward is known to who has been following my discussions with Gerdes and was last expressed in my post # 2089 on the VNN thread Archeological Investigations of Treblinka: Gerdes persistently refused to state what evidence he would accept as proof meeting the requirements for claiming the reward, running away from every question in this sense or responding with meaningless hysterical "what part of the word 'proof' do you not understand" – screams.
Mass Graves at Sobibor – 10th Update http://codoh.blogspot.com/2008/10/ But the reason for my going to Sobibor was not, or not only, an expected confrontation with this scum of mankind. I had booked the trip in the hope that there would be excavations by the Sobibor Archaeological Project at this time, and when this hope did not materialize, I decided that it would nevertheless be worthwhile to familiarize myself with the location and see what the mass grave areas identified in 2001 by Prof. Andrzej Kola and partially visible on air and satellite photographs, which are the subject of this article, looked like from ground perspective. I also wanted to check the accuracy of information on the Wikipedia page about Sobibor, referred to in this article's 3rd Update, that "close to the burial pits, bone fragments still litter the area". What I found on site is recorded in the photographs and stills from video films available on the RODOH thread My Trip to Sobibor. The bone fragments I came upon in some parts of the area around the "ash mountain" memorial, especially by the path leading to the memorial and in places where soil had been dug up by wild animals or by robbery diggers, confirmed the Wikipedia information quoted above. I therefore inserted a footnote reference to the aforementioned RODOH thread on the Wikipedia page. Below are some of the photos of bone fragments I took at Sobibor.Here's an interesting overview of the "fair and balance" dialogue going on.
Showing posts with label censorship by deniers. http://codoh.blogspot.com/search/label/censorship by deniersOh and to take a stab at your question again - how about the need to hear what the other side (history and evidence) has to say about the disgusting topic.
Well, it says this on their website:One of the first clues that someone is not a serious academic or scientist, or adult, is the use of childish language. I'm not doing any more than skimming your posts now, because they are the ramblings of an angry pre-teen (at least the equivalent). It's called circular reasoning: the website says no one challenged them, therefore no one challenged them. I'm not "getting ahead of myself", I'm doing actual historical research where you look at all the evidence and check references against other references.Last note: Not one person who espouses the orthodox stories of these five so-called “holocausts within the holocaust" and/or has fallen for the big “scientifically proven" lie, has ever mustered the courage / integrity / character to accept - The C.S.I. or The U.S. Courtroom Challenge. In fact, the very “scientists" involved in this transparent criminal charade - like cornered rats - cravenly avoid The N.A.F.H. challenges like the plague. (What does that tell you?) And don’t forget: 4 out of the 89 so-called “huge mass graves" have actually been located / proven to exist and to conclusively contain human remains - so why won’t the craven, delusional true-believers invalidate the so-called “holocaust deniers" by proving the claims / allegations / insinuations made about the other 85? What are they so afraid of? (They’re terrified - because they know they have been forensically cornered - and by accepting these challenges, they’ll expose who the real deniers / liars are.) http://www.nafcash.com/
Lausten:
I'm not "getting ahead of myself", I'm doing actual historical research where you look at all the evidence and check references against other references.Science Lausten, this is about science. As The N.A.F.H. website clearly states:
Remember: If the alleged Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II “holocausts" really did happen, then there actually would be numerous discernable extant huge mass graves filled with the remains of hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of people to prove it. So this is not a historical issue per se; this is clearly about - SCIENCE - and all that is being done here is the common-sense act of simply asking to see the alleged “archaeological proof" that the weak-minded true-believers insist is so “undeniable." (Remember also - legitimate scientists do not refuse to answer pertinent questions about their claimed discoveries.) http://www.nafcash.com/
Citizenschallenge-v.3:
Demanding expert answers from non experts is a typical con-artist move. It does not impress. ... Incidentally, what are you doing here? Are you denying the holocaust happened, or are you just a head-fuk for the fun of it?One simple question Citizenschallenge-v.3. One simple question: Is this the largest mass grave ever proven to exist at BELZEC, CHELMNO, PONARY, SOBIBOR or TREBLINKA II?
These are excellent questions as well, taken directly from The N.A.F.H. website:
#45 - It is known - via a preponderance of scientific evidence - that; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 33 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Belzec identified by The N.A.F.H. - currently contains the remains of no less than __?__ people. #48 - It is known - via a preponderance of scientific evidence - that; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 15 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Chelmno identified by The N.A.F.H. - currently contains the remains of no less than __?__ people. #51 - It is known - via a preponderance of scientific evidence - that; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 7 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Ponary identified by The N.A.F.H. - currently contains the remains of no less than __?__ people. #54 - It is known - via a preponderance of scientific evidence - that; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 18 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Sobibor identified by The N.A.F.H. - currently contains the remains of no less than __?__ people. #57 - It is known - via a preponderance of scientific evidence - that; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 16 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Treblinka II identified by The N.A.F.H. - currently contains the remains of no less than __?__ people.
Yes or no?No. Clearly no. That has been answered several times in this thread, with pictures and links. So, go ahead with your childish rant about how I'm denying science. Or would you like me to write it for you? Save you the typing?
Citizenschallenge-v.3, why are you so desperately trying to misdirect this thread from the OP? Is this the largest mass grave ever proven to exist at BELZEC, CHELMNO, PONARY, SOBIBOR or TREBLINKA II?What misdirect? Please specify. Please if you want to have a discussion about motives let's do so, I'll answer. Let me begin: Why are you "so desperately trying" to rewrite history with one picture, forced on a group that has no background with this topic? What are you trying to achieve here? Why are you interested in this? You wouldn't be from Metairie, Louisiana by any chance? What does your CFI challenge propose to prove? What about the other evidence which I've shared, that's quite on topic, I mean links to folks who actually have been looking in the ground and records are certainly not a misdirection. Why would you say that? Oh and what's the deal with your single source of information, isn't that a red flag for you? It certainly is for me. I'm just say'n. Why should anyone care about what N.A.F.H. claims, or challenges? Particularly since he ignores and denies all claims that run counter to his schtick. Oh and there is this:
The N.A.F.H. website at "nafcash . com" https://www.whois.com/whois/nafcash.com National Association of Forensic Historians an outfit that runs out of a Metairie, Louisiana post office box. Hmmm. REGISTRANT CONTACT Name:Direct Privacy Organization:Domain Name Proxy Service, Inc Privacy ID#... Hmmm.Really? What do they know? Seems to me that the bars of Metairie would be alive with white supremest trash talk rather than last century's troubles in Europe.
Yes or no?No. Clearly no. That has been answered several times in this thread, with pictures and links. So, go ahead with your childish rant about how I'm denying science. Or would you like me to write it for you? Save you the typing? Lausten, if:
No. Clearly no.is your answer to this question: Is this the largest mass grave ever proven to exist at BELZEC, CHELMNO, PONARY, SOBIBOR or TREBLINKA II?
Citizenschallenge-v.3:
Please if you want to have a discussion about motives let’s do so, I’ll answer.The answer I'm looking for is the answer to this question: Is this the largest mass grave ever proven to exist at BELZEC, CHELMNO, PONARY, SOBIBOR or TREBLINKA II?
I’m looking for help locating the sceintificl proof that there is a larger mass grave (one that contains the remains of at least 7 people) at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor or Treblinka II, than the one shown above. (Which was excavated at Sobibor.)
Citizenschallenge-v.3:
Why are you "so desperately trying" to rewrite historyHow many times do you have to be told that this is about science? I do not accept the "magically disappearing jew therory" (who in their right mind could?) and agree with what The National Association of Forensic Historians says about the issue:
Remember: If the alleged Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II “holocausts" really did happen, then there actually would be numerous discernable extant huge mass graves filled with the remains of hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of people to prove it. So this is not a historical issue per se; this is clearly about - SCIENCE - and all that is being done here is the common-sense act of simply asking to see the alleged “archaeological proof" that the weak-minded true-believers insist is so “undeniable." (Remember also - legitimate scientists do not refuse to answer pertinent questions about their claimed discoveries.) http://www.nafcash.com/
I’m not going to look things up for you. You’ve been given pictures and links. You have google, use it. You are insinuating that I accept something by 3rd grade teacher told me and that I’ve never questioned it. I’m not going to engage with shenanigans.
You did not replied to my question.
Lets put it this way. Even when slovak government, with president Tiso, was clearly antisemitic, and deported up to 60 000 jewish citizens, member of government Alexander Mach, who survived until 1980 admitted in his memoirs that “we wanted to cleanse Slovakia of outer elements, but not at price of human lifes”.
Even pro-nazi puppet government got scared when they found out to be a part of a war crime of such scale, so they stopped the transports.
Answer to your questoin is: “It does not matter”. Why?
Its well known fact that bodies in concentration death camps were cremated.
Enjoy the watch.
Edit: Correct way to answer your question isnt to ask on the internet. Get a history book, ask a historian who is studying the topic.
Offler:
Correct way to answer your question isnt to ask on the internet. Get a history book, ask a historian who is studying the topic.Offer, who excavated these two graves at Sobibor:
Remember: If the alleged Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II “holocausts" really did happen, then there actually would be numerous discernable extant huge mass graves filled with the remains of hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of people to prove it. So this is not a historical issue per se; this is clearly about - SCIENCE - and all that is being done here is the common-sense act of simply asking to see the alleged “archaeological proof" that the weak-minded true-believers insist is so “undeniable." (Remember also - legitimate scientists do not refuse to answer pertinent questions about their claimed discoveries.) http://www.nafcash.com/Offer, here are a few more questions (taken directly from The National Association of Forensic Historians website) that I would like to ask you: #43 - The MAXIMUM number of the 33 claimed / alleged / insinuated - discernable / measurable extant graves of Belzec identified by The N.A.F.H. that you can currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that have actually been located / proven to exist in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed scientifically verified human remains; is no less than __?__. #46 - The MAXIMUM number of the 15 claimed / alleged / insinuated - discernable / measurable extant graves of Chelmno identified by The N.A.F.H. that you can currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that have actually been located / proven to exist in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed scientifically verified human remains; is no less than __?__. #49 - The MAXIMUM number of the 7 claimed / alleged / insinuated - discernable / measurable extant graves of Ponary identified by The N.A.F.H. that you can currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that have actually been located / proven to exist in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed scientifically verified human remains; is no less than __?__. #52 - The MAXIMUM number of the 18 claimed / alleged / insinuated - discernable / measurable extant graves of Sobibor identified by The N.A.F.H. that you can currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that have actually been located / proven to exist in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed scientifically verified human remains; is no less than __?__. #55- The MAXIMUM number of the 16 claimed / alleged / insinuated - discernable / measurable extant graves of Treblinka II identified by The N.A.F.H. that you can currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that have actually been located / proven to exist in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed scientifically verified human remains; is no less than __?__.
I'm not going to look things up for you.I didn't ask you to. I asked you a simple question: Is this the largest mass grave ever proven to exist at BELZEC, CHELMNO, PONARY, SOBIBOR or TREBLINKA II?
Lausten, if:No. Clearly no.is your answer to this question: Is this the largest mass grave ever proven to exist at BELZEC, CHELMNO, PONARY, SOBIBOR or TREBLINKA II?Yes or no? Then what are your answers to these questions: #45 - It is known - via a preponderance of scientific evidence - that; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 33 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Belzec identified by The N.A.F.H. - currently contains the remains of no less than __?__ people. #48 - It is known - via a preponderance of scientific evidence - that; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 15 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Chelmno identified by The N.A.F.H. - currently contains the remains of no less than __?__ people. #51 - It is known - via a preponderance of scientific evidence - that; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 7 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Ponary identified by The N.A.F.H. - currently contains the remains of no less than __?__ people. #54 - It is known - via a preponderance of scientific evidence - that; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 18 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Sobibor identified by The N.A.F.H. - currently contains the remains of no less than __?__ people. #57 - It is known - via a preponderance of scientific evidence - that; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 16 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Treblinka II identified by The N.A.F.H. - currently contains the remains of no less than __?__ people.