ओम् तत् सत्
So now we’re doing silly hour.
You can do 2+2 with apples, don’t need quantum uncertainty to figure exponentials, how many atoms do you think that lake contains? Pray tell how does quantum weirdness scale up to kinetic energy?
ओम् तत् सत्, is that another way of saying trapped within our own mindscapes.
Because you use the wrong term “quantum weirdness” when the term should be “quantum implication”.
Weirdness is not a scientific term. Same as Einstein’s “spooky action at a distance” that has an “implied” entanglement function
1 Like
Still dances right by this:
Besides, I wasn’t asking about interpreting physical properties.
I was talking about living people struggling to make sense of their place in this universe.
Why is that distinct so hard to see?
According to QM, the world exists only as a cloud of simultaneous, overlapping possibilities—technically called a “superposition”—until an observation brings one of these possibilities into focus in the form of definite objects and events. This transition is technically called a “measurement.”
One of the keys to our argument for a mental world is the contention that only conscious observers can perform measurements.
The problem with that can be best summed up by going back to the beginning.
Appreciating the Physical Reality ~ Human Mindscape divide.
This recognizes that
simply fact of this planet being here, and we human doing our thing today - is proof that Cosmic evolution and Earth’s evolution unfolded down one particular path, or we wouldn’t be here.
The requirement for an observer, seems to be an artifact of us still being trapped within our primal Abrahamic Mindscape, that can’t see beyond its own personal vanity, needs and desires.
The Universe created Earth; and Earth created its own biosphere (with some cosmic help); that biosphere created humans; human’s amazing mind created our god’s (with a little from our biosphere).
None of that competes with scientific findings, but it does provide us with that all important benchmark to help us keep our bearings.
Because “living” is a physical activity and must be calculated by its physical properties
Hunger is a physical need!
“Happiness” is an abstract property and much more complicated than hunger.
Consciousness, gravity and the like are things that happen in the universe. You are saying something about cause and effect that doesn’t fit
That is such a great question
Try this:
What is quantum coherence?
Quantum coherence refers to the ability of a quantum state to maintain its entanglement and superposition in the face of interactions and the effects of thermalization .Mar 18, 2021
Great and the team that makes the most goals wins.
Astounding.
So what’s that actually taught you about your life and place in this universe?
I am not the one to advance the idea of a universe fine-tuned for life.
My position is that life is fine-tuned to the universe.
1 Like
I’ve been lurking on this thread for awhile now. I actually think I see what brmckay is trying to say. Unfortunately I think he’s trying too hard to sound philosophical.
I think the conversation goes off the rails when we switch contexts so to speak. I think Plato’s cave analogy is helpful here. When we’re talking about quantum this and that, and relativity, and so on, we’re talking about the “shadows” we observe on the walls of the cave. When we talk about existence, infinities, etc we’re trying to describe the cave itself and what’s outside of it, but we’re limited to the simplistic notions and concepts we have at our disposal, being limited cave-dwellers ourselves.
So we have brmckay talking about the cave itself and what’s outside of it, or rather how it all fits together. And unfortunately there just aren’t concepts available to us to do that. And then we have the others talking about quantum this and that AS IF that relates to what’s outside the cave. Sure the shadows on the wall reflect in some way what’s outside the cave, but only vaguely, and any scientist will tell you yes, all of our science is an approximation, sometimes incredibly accurate at describing the shadows. But that’s as far as we can take it using words and equations. It’s not very satisfactory because we’re curiosity machines. But then again, even though we’re cave dwellers, we’re still part of the thing that encompasses the cave.
And I think the final thing brmckay is saying is that there’s no absolute difference between us and the cave itself. It’s all just what there is…what we’ve termed Reality. We can sum it up by saying, like Carl Sagan said best - we’re just one way the universe (i.e. all that is) thinks about itself. There isn’t us and the universe/reality, there’s just reality with us being miniscule aspects of it. To me that’s wonderful.
4 Likes
Cuthbertj, I like how you described it.
write4u, sorry that’s a non-sequitur.
Why do you bring up things I never mention
Where have I ever even implied that?
Earth’s evolution shows us that life is the product of an intimate dance between biology and geology. You cannot understand an organism without understanding the environment it’s living within, because the two are intimately related to each other.
So of course, you could say life is fine-tuned to the universe, but I think the metaphor is off-base anyways, so why do you keep trying to hang it around my neck, I don’t understand.
Please, I consider you a pal, so why can’t you focus on the words and phrases I actually use???
Sorry CC, that was intended as a general statement of a belief held by many and certainly not directed at you.
Apology accepted.
…
citizenschallengev4 - "So now we’re doing silly hour."
Meow
Meanwhile, back at the el rancho:
Your turn brmckay.
What does that have to do with anything I’ve said?
What “requirement” for an observer? (observers equating existentially with gravity)
Ouch.
I had to go back and read that
Yipes. So okay, sometimes I get carried away and write stupid stuff.
It was reaction to this:
Allow me to restate that:
No clue.
It goes way back to this,
That traces back to this
Well it all seemed rather circular ( and a reflection of what I refer to as Abrahamic mindset, egotistical with a self-serving tunnel vision - and I was probing to get your feelings on a more fundamental perspective.
Simply the difference between the world that has always been unfolding, long before we came around, long before observation itself. Now we are here with our minds doing the best we can to understand it. Most still believing they are looking at different realities, when it’s in actuality, we looking at different perceptions of reality
But l need to point out, I’m about the human condition and how we ourselves deal with understanding the world we find ourselves in. Not in presuming to define what reality is.
Beyond accepting that reality is simply the observable material world that gave birth to us and that will reabsorb us when our time is up.
citizenschallengev4 - But l need to point out, I’m about the human condition and how we ourselves deal with understanding the world we find ourselves in. Not in presuming to define what reality is.Beyond accepting that reality is simply the observable material world that gave birth to us and that will reabsorb us when our time is up."
And I’ll repeat …ओम् तत् सत्…Reality-as-it-actually-is.
(all of our egocentric relativity bound thinking included)