If only it were so simple

Religion and Secularism
1

“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?”
— Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

I was going through old notes today and found this one from Solzhenitsyn. Timely. So I thought I’d look him up. I didn’t know he had received a Templeton award. Apparently he was pretty Christian. He said that the problems of the world are due men having forgotten God. Here’s a speech. I’m not trying to point out his weaknesses here, rather that, people who say this kind of thing get it from somewhere. They get it from people we consider intellectuals. Now, I just skimmed this, but I can’t find anything new in here, some description of God that resonates with anything real, or sheds any light, on how we get from “first cause” to any religion.

He does have a description of Christians that are just and moral. He even seems to acknowledge that questioning the faith is part of how people like himself are liberated, when he says “revolution must necessarily begin with atheism”. But then he slides into a litany of everything wrong with controlling dictators. He does get it right though, when he says you can’t vanquish Christianity. Maybe not in the way I see that however. Everything else is the usual fare that we see from odd ducks to the self proclaimed scholars that stop by our little forum. And of course, he ends with, if humanity fails, it’s our fault.

But to take me out of this despair, I also checked out the Hero with a Thousand Faces summary on YouTube. Around the middle, 24 minutes or so, paraphrasing, Campbell notes that in the life of a culture, images can be more obscure, harder to find. Older simpler images no longer feel pertinent and in many cases the myths become swallowed up with less important details. When this happens, life goes out of the mythology, and it becomes a relic. We can rejuvenate the myths by seeing the potency of the stories in the past and applying that potency to modern context.

Unfortunately, at this point in history, that is still in the hands of those who are swallowed up in those details. So we get a David Leon, or any of the churches I’ve checked out, which I blog about, making sounds like they are rejuvenating, then falling back on the old symbols.

 

2

You are all over the place, Lausten. My mom told me one time she met Joseph Campbell, who was living in the West Village where we were living at the time in Manhattan. She stopped him when he was crossing 6th Avenue and told him that she found “Hero of a Thousand Faces” compelling. He was thrilled, she said, that somebody actually read his work.

You see, I am not a nobody.

3

Sree, are you pleased when people read your serious thoughts on life. Of course you are, we all like to be taken seriously;

A few days ago someone mentioned that they would like to see a button for “likes” to indicate understanding and approval of a post.

Interestingly, atheist have generally the most knowledge of the various reliogions than adherentsof those religions. That is a defensive mechanism when attacked and accused of apostasy and demon worship. And a lot of atheists were brought up with religion, until they reached the age of reason.

But there are also some people who actually reject science in favor of scripture. Those are the dangerous people, they will kill in the name of their god.

I suggest to watch the video Mriana posted in Religion sub-forum "Please help me continue to examine why… (post# 3128580 ).

You’ll find many answers to the questions you pose.

4
Write4U: A few days ago someone mentioned that they would like to see a button for “likes” to indicate understanding and approval of a post.
Bonding with like-minded folks doesn't do it for me. I am an explorer. I have come to inquire into the unknown. If there is more than one of me, then I am too close to shore. The age of reason is the harbor of the damned.
5
Sree said,

Bonding with like-minded folks doesn’t do it for me. I am an explorer.


Conscious awareness of reality is a controlled hallucination for each individual brain. It is when all the controlled hallucinations agree that we can call it reality.

That is the definition of empathy, the ability to experience someone else’s reality. A “like” button establishes such initial agreement with someone else’s perception of reality.

6
Write4U: That is the definition of empathy, the ability to experience someone else’s reality. A “like” button establishes such initial agreement with someone else’s perception of reality.
Why would I want to experience someone else's reality if there is such a thing at all? I never have the feeling that there is more than one of me. I can choose to be a party in this conversation instead of viewing it as two voices in my head.

I am not an ape in a troop. I am the forest, and the forest is me.

7
Sree said,

I am not an ape in a troop. I am the forest, and the forest is me.


That statement alone indicates your separation from reality. You are a type of ape, wether you like that thought or not.

Humans are communal “great apes”. If you cannot identify with that, you cannot expect anyone else to share your reality either, which makes you a pariah. You have removed yourself from your natural evolutionary past and assumed a position of privilige over other intelligent animals.

Humans are classified in the sub-group of primates known as the Great Apes.

Humans are primates, but the primates that we most closely resemble are the apes. We are therefore classified along with all other apes in a primate sub-group known as the hominoids (Superfamily Hominoidea).


I believe rejecting this shared history is an indication of a form of psychopathology.

Psychopathy is traditionally a personality disorder characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, and egotistical traits.[1][2][3]

It is sometimes considered synonymous with sociopathy. Different conceptions of psychopathy have been used throughout history that are only partly overlapping and may sometimes be contradictory.


Try learning to be human. You’ll fit in with the majority of the CFI crowd who are humanists, even as they are individuals all.

If you reject "common humanist moral values’, it is you who is divorcing from humanity.

 
8
Write4U: If you reject “common humanist moral values’, it is you who is divorcing from humanity.
Secular humanism is an ideology. There is a lot more to life than ideas. Humanity has nothing to do with people and their lofty moral values. It is there in the flower, not the fibonacci pattern; in that heavenly blueness, not the sky.
9

You are confusing mathematical beauty with moral behaviors. A flower or the sky are not moral messages, they are mathematical patterns, one in accordance to the Fibonacci Sequence the other by a Fractal function.

10

You can keep the Fibonacci Sequence, Write4U. I prefer the flower.

11

That’s probably a good choice for you, Sree. The flower will not be perturbed with your disorganized thinking patterns. It is a source of comfort.

OTOH,

“Look at the flowers.” Carol, of “The Walking Dead” series, said to Lizzie (a child who had become a dedicated disciple of the dead walkers), right before …

12
Sree said,

You can keep the Fibonacci Sequence, Write4U. I prefer the flower.


Which one, the sunflower which is naturally following the fibonacci growth pattern, or the daisy, or the astoundingly beautiful Romanesco broccoli which displays both fractality and the Fibonacci sequence. It created these beautiful patterns all by itself.

Romanesco broccoli is an edible flower bud of the species Brassica oleracea . First documented in Italy, it is chartreuse in color. Romanesco has a striking appearance because its form is a natural approximation of a fractal. When compared to a traditional cauliflower, its texture as a vegetable is far more crunchy, and its flavor is not as assertive, being delicate and nutty. The Romanesco has been grown in Italy since the 16th century.
https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.5pCOeanXyAYceBgrPiN5DgHaEK&pid=Api&P=0&w=301&h=170
13

You prefer flowers over the Fibonacci sequence?

Just to impress on you what natural mathematical self-forming pattern you are completely overlooking and so carelessly discard.

Phi, the golden ratio.

FIBONACCI NUMBERS: THE SECRET FORMULA OF FLOWERS
Does this mathematical code hold the key to nature?

If you stare at a sunflower for long enough, you’ll see that its centre is not just comprised of thousands of randomly grouped seeds. Like gazing at one of those 3D art pictures (can you see the vase of flowers in this one?), you’ll eventually see a pattern emerging of several clockwise and anti-clockwise spirals.

But far from being just a pretty pattern, this formation follows a scientific formula based on a special sequence of numbers known as Fibonacci numbers.


https://www.mathsisfun.com/numbers/nature-golden-ratio-fibonacci.html

Sree, mathematics are the fundamental ingredients in symmetry, balance, regularity, efficiency, composition. You know those qualities that lend beauty to physical patterns.

14

Has anyone checked out this wonderful site above?

Do it now and learn about Phi as compared to other irrational numbers and the cleverness of nature (natural selection) nto find (evolve) this wonderful number.