I put a heart on this whole post and I meant it. But this is not helpful. We can’t all think our way out of thinking problems.
You hit on a difficult one here. We do have to be careful of our biases, true. Also true that we have accumulated knowledge that can lead to insights. There is no easy formula for knowing you’re right.
I always allow myself to doubt myself but I try to not let the doubt stop me from getting through the day. Sometimes the doubt is right, sometimes not. Difficult.
Yeah, but coddling isn’t particularly helpful either.
We all get a badge for participating, but if one wants more out of their life, we gotta put in the work.
It’s a sort of pragmatic fact of life.
Whether isn’t nice or not, is beside the point.
Just as the “Free Will” argument is mute (or at least falls into the background) when you’re negotiating your day by days.
We need to make choices and act, if we expect anything out of life.
Wait a minute, you are copying and pasting. Then you are voicing both agreement and doubt about what you have pasted into the comments?
You/he assigned tasks, never wondering if folks are already engaged in non-judgmental interactions; it also assumes internal arguments, that people might have worked through and moved beyond already. Gratitude and Abdication of power, “Attention”.
Sharing a quote, do you think that’s teaching?
Sure, there are kernels of “truth” in there - no doubt, and it could be discussed in a lot of different ways. But the tapestry he’s created is a vehicle for selling copy, like a motel painting, why are you investing so much of yourself into his vehicle?
Dark responds, “I’m not sure what he means by mind” - What’s wrong with:
“Mind is your thoughts and inner voices - mind is produced by your body/brain along with the feedback from your environment.” ?
Is this Dark talking, or the author?
What “their minds” are we talking about?
Seems to me we can grow and learn and change various ideas and thoughts, but my “Mind”, and the lens’ that it see through, I can’t change that.
Of course, shoot a tamping rod through the bottom of my mouth and out the top of my skull, now that probably would change my “mind”.
No! I’ve never said such thing.
You creature body creates your consciousness!
And I don’t “state” that - it’s simply reporting back on what neuroscientists have been learning, and what they are sharing with the interested public.
You misunderstand - I stated the need to come to grips with the most fundamental observation, based on scientific findings, not my opinion.
There is a distinct, important, profound, and worth learning about,
it is the, divide between Physical Reality and our Human Mind.
I am therefore I think.
You can’t adopt consciousness, you are already a living conscious being, or your body would have never survived this far.
What are you/he trying to say?
Makes as much sense as:
“There’s no gap between the inside of me and the outside of me.”
It’s sorta, kinda true, but it doesn’t say anything.
That is not your choice.
You were born as one particular creature.
Your body/brain produces the mind you possess.
Your thoughts can not stop the production of thoughts.
One can probably suppress and redirect thoughts, but you can’t stop your body/brain from doing what Evolution taught it to do, and what incidentally, keeps you alive.
Your body has been learning that skill from many, many millions of years of evolving through countless generations.
Yeah, well all sorts of ways to look at that.
Guess it’s a great exercise, dissolving the mind, though it might teach you the exact opposite of what you’re hoping for. Been there, got the t-shirt, moved on to bigger and better. Turned out to be hurdle rather than a goal - for me. 
Here’s the flaw, you isolating “mind” as a thing onto itself. It’s not, it’s intimately bound up with your body. You can’t isolate your body out of this equation and that’s what so god awful many ‘gurus’ and ‘teachers’ miss in their focus on selling copy.
You’re silly.
There’s nothing you can say to me that will hurt me,
a) I’d never give you that much power over me,
b) I have way more living and thinking under my belt.
I may not know philosophy like a scholar who’s spent his life in libraries reading books, but I do know what being a Human Being is about, as well as anyone, from living it, studying it, digesting the experiences.
But remember I’m also edging close to 70 with more interactions, with more people, and experiences and intellectual struggling, than you can imagine. You’re at the beginning of your journey.
I can only speak from myself via the life I’ve lived.
The universe has been very good to me, and it started with the most basics. A deeply curious and introspective nature, a true nurd type in school, but then, well puberty was very good to me, add to that excellent eclectic parents, of poor stock, so no financial safety net - meaning after high school it was sink or swim. Fortunately, what my parents didn’t have in money they made up for with engagement, recognizing and encouraging our individual natures and talents - encouraging us to learn and do well, responsibility and pride in work well done also priorities.
Plus during my days jobs were still relatively plentiful for those willing to do the work - and people in general were less scared and resentful of each other. I’d have been swept away and disappeared in short order, had I been unleashed from high school in 2023 rather than 1973.
I gave you that background to make it clear we aren’t competing here. I’ve put in my time with the shills, the holier than thou, the predators and parasites and I’ve digested many lessons.
I believe the mind’s number on priority is in keeping me alive and prospering (in a biological sense, not in a riche$ sense).
That and our societal strategies is draped over the biological prime imperatives.
You could learn a whole lot more about the science of neurology and such, from actual scientists. Have you had a chance to digest any Sapolsky?
.
Operate? How I “operate”? How do mean that?
Define “Operate”: ____________________________
I’m about as open as book as anyone on this board.
I wonder if Lausten understands how I ‘operate’ - I venture to bet he does, and that he’d be fairly accurate, if not overly complimentary.
You were cutting and pasting!
Don’t worry, you won’t be harming anyone at this board.
This isn’t about a fight,
it’s about exchanging ideas and evaluating information.
So do I. And I try being gentle, I don’t want to harm you either,
(but then again I know some of my best lessons come out of being harmed - so like everything else it’s a two edged sword.)
In some respects you remind me of my earlier me, I like to think your struggle is noble and worthy, but that you’re looking in the wrong places. At times you give the impression of fully understand that, but then something like the opening comments on this thread, and it seems we’re right back home plate, trying to get to first.
When we engage why not simply trying dealing with the words on the page, at face value. I’m not a trickster trying to pull a gotcha.
Also look at what you’re bringing to us - what kind of response are you expecting?
oh lordie that one kept going, it’s the product or about a dozen interruptions from Maddy and other morning chores over the past six hours.
When being nice becomes beside the point, I will make like Lao Tzu and leave this horrid civilization to live among creatures that care for each other.
Did you notice the interesting change in meaning that you injected ?
Please try to respect the full context:
I wonder why you felt a need to add that spin to it.
My statement wasn’t about me being kind or unkind, it’s about real life not giving a flying flip.
Brings us right back to respecting that Physical Reality ~ Human Mindscape divide.
Yeah I struggle with that. Am I ignoring something that doesn’t make sense or is true or am I just “giving up”. I don’t always have answer.
A lot when the guy is trying to tell you to dissolve the mind.
If it’s in the quote it’s him, obviously. He would differ in changing your mind, but given his writing I’m not sure.
I think he’s saying I’m distorting the teachings because it’s easier than addressing my concerns with it. Not to mention I am directly quoting him on the stuff that bugs me and as you can see his writing isn’t clear either. It’s a clever dodge.
I’m slowly working through it all but I’m stuck on “nothing makes us feel” which leaves me unsure of what to do with life.
The other part is that attention lesson I quoted, which says a lot of the feelings and stuff are dreams.
I’m still stuck in not feeling anything because it’s all interrupted with what he says worming into my head.
You might want to take your own advice. I’ve been reading inthedark since he got here. I skip over the long cut-and-paste junk, but I don’t miss much of what he’s said. You are not addressing that history. I can’t summarize, and giving my opinions would be talking about him in front of him. I’m not going to do that.
He has taken the quote:
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt
and distorted it. You are not inferior @inthedarkness
What does that have to do with misrepresenting my quote?
============================
I’m reading his words too.
You listen through your senses.
I Iisten through my senses.
You seem to be comfortable with the status quo.
I’m not.
I think, he can do better than riding that merry-go-round.
I think you misinterpreted what I said, maybe some of what he said.
Of course he can. You and I can do better too. Why would you think I would want anyone to remain stuck where they are not happy? The question is how to get unstuck. Saying someone is lazy is counterproductive in almost any context. Telling someone to work harder or work smarter doesn’t tell them how to work better.
It’s more like I’m not sure what to do when it comes to emotions given what he says. What if it is so? Am I at fault for not changing my emotion to something positive.
What value would emotions have if you could just make them whenever you want? What does it mean if I feel something if anything? If it’s not the thing or event making me feel then what is it? How could I tell what it is I like and enjoy if nothing makes me feel things?
He says some things are natural responses and some are because of social conditioning but how do you tell which is which?
I just…don’t know how to be right now. I don’t know what it all means.
How comfortable are you with your emotional state today?
There’s no reason to begin with what he says. Begin with something else. Really, almost anything else other than this website.
And you think anyone does? If you’re goal is to know all, you are going to be very frustrated. Maybe get comfortable with not knowing.
I don’t really know, it varies throughout the day.
That’s gonna be hard, since I’m not sure if he is right or if I making it right.
I asked a Buddhist I know and this is what he told me which seems to match what he means:
"What he is saying is that the thing that you think is upsetting you isn’t causing the feeling of being upset. That feeling is only your reaction. It is coming from your own mind. That is why it doesn’t affect everyone in the same way.
Let’s use rain as a metaphor. Rain is just rain. Rain doesn’t carry any emotional qualities with it. But if someone wants a sunny day, they may feel sad when it rains. But for the person next door who just planted a vegetable garden, they are really happy that it is raining."
I wish I were, but in this case it’s more like I don’t know if he is right and I’m afraid of him being so. I’m worried the part about “agreements” in the last thread means everything I took to be meaningful to my life is just some “agreement” or program I never agreed to.
If you are not familiar with the “mirror neural network”, you may want to do some reading on the brain’s mirror function that allows for empathic feelings and responses.
This quote sums it up very nicely.
What are Mirror Neurons?
Mirror neurons are “smart cells” in our brains that allow us to understand others’ actions, intentions, and feelings. The mirror neurons are in many areas of our brains, and they fire when we perform an action such as grasping an apple, and similarly we see others doing it.
As it turns out, our mirror neurons fire when we experience an emotion and similarly when we see others experiencing an emotion, such as happiness, fear, anger, or sadness.
When we see someone being sad, for example, our mirror neurons fire and that allows us to experience the same sadness and to feel empathy. We don’t need to “think” about the other person being sad, we actually experience it firsthand.
Are We Wired for Empathy? Powerful Neuroscience of Connection
Note: this is not the same as sympathy.
If you didn’t agree to it, then it’s not an agreement. If it’s an agreement then you can renegotiate with yourself. You don’t need someone else to tell you what you did or didn’t agree to.
The Buddhist is telling you to plant gardens. It’s a metaphor. Plant ideas for yourself, like that rain is nourishing. Or, in the case of people, if someone yells at you, or someone tells you that you are stupid, be grateful, because you have been given a chance to exercise your ability to negotiate how you react.
You can hear them and choose to be okay with what they say, knowing it is about them, not you. Or if you feel sad, you can accept that and continue with your day and look for seeds that need watering and notice a new feeling that comes when you focus on nourishing something else.
This is from the Dalai Lama book, The Art of Happiness. So, maybe the Buddhist you asked said this, but you didn’t hear it. Or, maybe he had an appointment and didn’t have time to make sure you heard him.
Each time you “don’t know” or are afraid, you are agreeing with yourself to feel that way. It’s okay. We all do it all the time. We forget how powerful we are. We forget about our power to choose happiness. Instead, we doubt ourselves and choose sadness and confusion. And it’s okay that we do that. That moment passes and we can choose again.
When you are upset because you didn’t choose happiness, that’s what happened in that moment. Then it’s another moment. Forgive yourself for what you did and make a new choice, a new agreement.
I’m not sure if these can be shared, but this grumpy old man gets it