Yes, and they're wrong. As long as there are humans there will be communities. It's just that theistic churches have cornered the market--until now. Community venues will change. I also think UU churches are in the forefront of the movement away from theistic churches as the only community centers.
Lois
One hopes. Many of my discussions with atheists lately end when I start to connect religion to bad behavior. They insist that their organization does only good in the world. It is mostly an accident of history that the Catholic church ended up with so much power then passed along their skill of guilting people into giving them money on to the Protestants. There is obviously a strong urge to give but so many say they are doing God's work instead of simply what needs to be done. It's a little harder to get people to volunteer when you have to explain why it's needed. I hope that civic organizations will continue to grow and fill the void that churches are creating, but it's hard to predict.
You wrote, "It is mostly an accident of history that the Catholic church ended up with so much power . . .
That was no accident.
Lois
Isn't it also true that scandal and controversy is nothing new to the Catholic church? It seems back in elementary school I recall learning how when hearing "confessions," some priests would tell the person they had to "pay" a certain amount to the church in order to be forgiven? I'll have to look up the term for it. The Catholic church just seems like it wants political power today to have leverage over women's rights, control of what marriage is, birth control etc.
The Catholic church just seems like it wants political power today to have leverage over women's rights, control of what marriage is, birth control etc.
And then some.
From it's beginning, the catholic church has been an organized crime group. Probably the most successful of organized groups.
Yes, and they're wrong. As long as there are humans there will be communities. It's just that theistic churches have cornered the market--until now. Community venues will change. I also think UU churches are in the forefront of the movement away from theistic churches as the only community centers.
Lois
One hopes. Many of my discussions with atheists lately end when I start to connect religion to bad behavior. They insist that their organization does only good in the world. It is mostly an accident of history that the Catholic church ended up with so much power then passed along their skill of guilting people into giving them money on to the Protestants. There is obviously a strong urge to give but so many say they are doing God's work instead of simply what needs to be done. It's a little harder to get people to volunteer when you have to explain why it's needed. I hope that civic organizations will continue to grow and fill the void that churches are creating, but it's hard to predict.
You wrote, "It is mostly an accident of history that the Catholic church ended up with so much power . . .
That was no accident.
Lois
I'm going by Richard Carrier's analysis of how they were loosely organized into groups that really were acting compassionately, kinda like NGOs do in places where gov't is weak. They were also allowing women in their hierarchy. Cults that didn't were dying out. So as Rome tried to rebuild in Constantinople they were a good choice for a group to support. I don't think Constantine envisioned what would happen after he died. A different religion with a different crazy leader seeking political power could have just as easily found a different country to partner with. The mere chance placement of Constantinople and its thick walled castle was an "accident of history". Obviously someone strategically built it there, but it wasn't the Christians who thought of that. They just happened to make the right alliance at the right time.
Yes, and they're wrong. As long as there are humans there will be communities. It's just that theistic churches have cornered the market--until now. Community venues will change. I also think UU churches are in the forefront of the movement away from theistic churches as the only community centers.
Lois
One hopes. Many of my discussions with atheists lately end when I start to connect religion to bad behavior. They insist that their organization does only good in the world. It is mostly an accident of history that the Catholic church ended up with so much power then passed along their skill of guilting people into giving them money on to the Protestants. There is obviously a strong urge to give but so many say they are doing God's work instead of simply what needs to be done. It's a little harder to get people to volunteer when you have to explain why it's needed. I hope that civic organizations will continue to grow and fill the void that churches are creating, but it's hard to predict.
You wrote, "It is mostly an accident of history that the Catholic church ended up with so much power . . .
That was no accident.
Lois
Isn't it also true that scandal and controversy is nothing new to the Catholic church? It seems back in elementary school I recall learning how when hearing "confessions," some priests would tell the person they had to "pay" a certain amount to the church in order to be forgiven? I'll have to look up the term for it. The Catholic church just seems like it wants political power today to have leverage over women's rights, control of what marriage is, birth control etc.
Yes. However any scandal was well hidden before the recent child abuse scandal. They managed to make talk of such practices seem like mere rumours and that anyone who claimed they were true was just anti-Catholic. How they managed to keep such scandals hidden for centuries would be an interesting subject for investigation.
Lois
Yes, and they're wrong. As long as there are humans there will be communities. It's just that theistic churches have cornered the market--until now. Community venues will change. I also think UU churches are in the forefront of the movement away from theistic churches as the only community centers.
Lois
One hopes. Many of my discussions with atheists lately end when I start to connect religion to bad behavior. They insist that their organization does only good in the world. It is mostly an accident of history that the Catholic church ended up with so much power then passed along their skill of guilting people into giving them money on to the Protestants. There is obviously a strong urge to give but so many say they are doing God's work instead of simply what needs to be done. It's a little harder to get people to volunteer when you have to explain why it's needed. I hope that civic organizations will continue to grow and fill the void that churches are creating, but it's hard to predict.
You wrote, "It is mostly an accident of history that the Catholic church ended up with so much power . . .
That was no accident.
Lois
I'm going by Richard Carrier's analysis of how they were loosely organized into groups that really were acting compassionately, kinda like NGOs do in places where gov't is weak. They were also allowing women in their hierarchy. Cults that didn't were dying out. So as Rome tried to rebuild in Constantinople they were a good choice for a group to support. I don't think Constantine envisioned what would happen after he died. A different religion with a different crazy leader seeking political power could have just as easily found a different country to partner with. The mere chance placement of Constantinople and its thick walled castle was an "accident of history". Obviously someone strategically built it there, but it wasn't the Christians who thought of that. They just happened to make the right alliance at the right time.
Good point.
Lois