How I feel about my atheism

Religion and Secularism
21
Thank you for saying that. As someone who has suffered a considerable amount of clinical depression, I can tell you that one of the worst things about it is that people can't seem to wrap their brains around the fact that it is no more your fault than any other disease--perhaps less so.
That's one of the worst things about it? Is that one of the symptoms? One of the clinical symptoms?
People just don't get it.
What do you want us to get? What if I did get it? Would that help all the depressed people? Would that help you?
Depression is not an attitude problem. It's not something caused by thinking errors and it's certainly not "anger turned inward" (although I suppose it can be, and some therapists seem to heavily promote these concepts).
Ok. That's true enough. However your alternate take on the disease is probably even more flawed:
I believe in most cases depression is a mental illness cause by trying to fit a square peg into a round hole--the peg being certain types of people and the hole being society.
As far as I know any depression that's worth mentioning is caused by chemical imbalances. That's all. It certainly isn't an illness caused by "trying to fit a square peg in a round hole." But if that line of thinking is working for you....
22

Who’s to know who is really depressed and who isn’t? How many people are convinced they are depressed simply by having a television
commercial suggest they are?
We all know that the amount of psychotropic meds being prescribed for these illnesses has gone up by hundreds of percentiles in the past 30 years.
Did something happen to the drinking water? Or are we going to fall back on the old: “The numbers of depressed people haven’t increased
significantly, it’s just better forms of diagnosis and less stigma concerning these illnesses”?
Maybe a portion, but I’m not buying that as anywhere near the actual numbers. Not buying it.
What is it now? 1 in 4 people are on these drugs? 1 in 5? C’mon? Not buying it.
To me that would mean the continued existence of the human race is dependent on Zoloft or Prozac. Uh-unh…no way.
No, I posit that’s lot’s of people are just slackers(for lack of a better word.). And this PC acceptance of "illness’ is just another cop-out. Especially when it’s lobbied heavily by Large Pharmaceutical Cos. and willing doctors.

23
Thank you for saying that. As someone who has suffered a considerable amount of clinical depression, I can tell you that one of the worst things about it is that people can't seem to wrap their brains around the fact that it is no more your fault than any other disease--perhaps less so.
That's one of the worst things about it? Is that one of the symptoms? One of the clinical symptoms?
People just don't get it.
What do you want us to get? What if I did get it? Would that help all the depressed people? Would that help you?
Depression is not an attitude problem. It's not something caused by thinking errors and it's certainly not "anger turned inward" (although I suppose it can be, and some therapists seem to heavily promote these concepts).
Ok. That's true enough. However your alternate take on the disease is probably even more flawed:
I believe in most cases depression is a mental illness cause by trying to fit a square peg into a round hole--the peg being certain types of people and the hole being society.
As far as I know any depression that's worth mentioning is caused by chemical imbalances. That's all. It certainly isn't an illness caused by "trying to fit a square peg in a round hole." But if that line of thinking is working for you.... You: "That's one of the worst things about it? Is that one of the symptoms? One of the clinical symptoms?" Me: For me and many others, yes it is one of the hardest things about being depressed. And no, other people's reaction to a person's depression is not a clinical symptom of that person's depression. What kind of idiot would think I was suggesting any such thing? You: "What do you want us to get? What if I did get it? Would that help all the depressed people? Would that help you?" Me: Would it help depressed people if people stopped blaming them for their illness and made an effort to understand it? Um, yeah. Did you seriously just ask me that? You: "Ok. That's true enough. However your alternate take on the disease is probably even more flawed:" Me: My "take" on depression isn't exactly on the fringes of expert opinion, so why so dismissive? Why so hostile anyway? Does being a bully make you feel special? You: "As far as I know any depression that's worth mentioning is caused by chemical imbalances. That's all. It certainly isn't an illness caused by "trying to fit a square peg in a round hole." But if that line of thinking is working for you..." Me: There's little evidence that depression is caused by a "chemical imbalance". If depression is caused by a deficiency of serotonin, why do SSRE's (selective serotonin reuptake enhancers) "work" just as well in clinical trials as the more standard SSRI's (serotonin reuptake inhibitors) and SNRI's (serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors)? In fact, there's an antidepressant approved for use in France that is an SSRE called Tianeptine. Further, any drug that reasonably mimics the side effects of antidepressants (active placebos) will perform just as well in clinical trials as the real thing. This alone smashes the serotonin deficiency theory of depression.
24
No, I posit that's lot's of people are just slackers(for lack of a better word.). And this PC acceptance of "illness' is just another cop-out. Especially when it's lobbied heavily by Large Pharmaceutical Cos. and willing doctors.
Wow! Let me guess. Republican or self-styled Libertarian? But I agree with you about the pharmaceutical companies. Lots of drugs, particular psychiatric drugs of questionable efficacy, are being improperly pushed by drug companies. Even the ones that actually do work in some capacity are being grievously over-prescribed. Did you know that around twenty percent of school-age boys have now been formally diagnosed with ADHD, and the vast majority of them are on stimulant medications? And that's just ADHD. So, according to the psychiatric profession, well over twenty percent of school-age boys have a "chemical imbalance"? What a load of $hit. This story should be bigger than the Catholic Church child rape racket! "They're drugging our children!" So, at least we agree on that.
25
Wow! Let me guess. Republican or self-styled Libertarian?
No. I'm not affiliated with any party. But I vote the Democrat Ticket. I fall far left of the Democrats. Why would you associate political affiliations with my views on the mental health? Think outside the box.
26
Why so hostile anyway? Does being a bully make you feel special?
I'm not a bully. I was just seeing if the exact inverse of the question you asked right here, applies to you? I'm not really a bully. Trust me. Or don't.
27
No. I'm not affiliated with any party. But I vote the Democrat Ticket. I fall far left of the Democrats. Why would you associate political affiliations with my views on the mental health? Think outside the box.
Yeah, I'd also consider myself well to the left of mainstream Democrats. Sorry if I misread you. I just got a really Tea Party, neo-libertarian, blame-the-victim vibe from you when you said: "I posit that’s lot’s of people are just slackers(for lack of a better word.). And this PC acceptance of “illness’ is just another cop-out". I think one would have to be legitimately mentally ill to actually choose to live with their parents and/or live on dismal disability wages under the pretense or cop-out of having clinical depression just because they're "slackers". I've been forced by my depression to go that route before and, well, let's just say women don't find it to be an attractive situation, and people you thought were your friends gradually or not-so-gradually shun you. And your most supportive family members will inevitably accuse you of not trying hard enough in your life or being a quitter. Nobody would say something like that to someone with cancer--a disease which has, on average, a better long-term prognosis in terms of mortality and disability than major depressive disorder, and is no less the fault of the sufferer than depression is. Are there people out there who are just using depression as an excuse or cop-out so that they can slack off on their $900 a month disability checks (which they likely won't see for two or three years while the Social Security administration looks at their case)? I suppose so. But I seriously doubt that they make up a significant portion of the people who appear to be seriously disabled by depression. Basically, it just seemed like a rather callous thing for you to say. And callousness is one of my pet peeves. And I'm a bit sensitive. :~(
28
Why so hostile anyway? Does being a bully make you feel special?
I'm not a bully. I was just seeing if the exact inverse of the question you asked right here, applies to you? I'm not really a bully. Trust me. Or don't. I'm not sure what you mean by that. Does the question of being a bully apply to me? I guess. Have I done something bullyish to warrant such a question? I don't think so. Look, you've got to admit that your initial response to my post came off as rather condescending. That's why I asked you what the hostile tone was about and put the B-word out there. I'm more than willing to acknowledge when I've committed a thinking error, or gotten my facts wrong. If you think I've done so, then by all means share that with me. But why the condescension? It's not conducive to productive conversation. Anyway, no hard feelings. Makeup hug? ;-)
29

BugRib, Vyazma ins’t really a bad guy. He just likes to take the opposite side when a topic is discussed. While not a bully, he argues very strongly which can come across as if he were, especially if part of his argument is an attack.
Occam

30
BugRib, Vyazma ins't really a bad guy. He just likes to take the opposite side when a topic is discussed. While not a bully, he argues very strongly which can come across as if he were, especially if part of his argument is an attack. Occam
But he often comes across as being to the right of Atilla the Hun-- or to put it in more modern terms, to the right of Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck and the Tea Party. Lois
31
Makeup hug? ;-)
Hell Yes! I won't try to explain my convoluted comm. skills. We'll leave it at that. Hugs all around. Peace Brother!
32
But he often comes across as being to the right of Atilla the Hun-- or to put it in more modern terms, to the right of Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck and the Tea Party. Lois
Where? Quote me.
33
But he often comes across as being to the right of Atilla the Hun-- or to put it in more modern terms, to the right of Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck and the Tea Party. Lois
Where? Quote me. "No, I posit that’s lot’s of [depressed] people are just slackers(for lack of a better word.). And this PC acceptance of “illness’ is just another cop-out." You have to admit that sounded a bit right-wing in a "blame the victim" type of way. Hugs and kisses, BugRib :-)
34
But he often comes across as being to the right of Atilla the Hun-- or to put it in more modern terms, to the right of Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck and the Tea Party. Lois
Where? Quote me. I don't have time to go through all your posts but I remember you making some statements that seem right wing to me. Like this one: "I think Snowden is getting exactly what he deserves. I hope he is never pardoned. He broke the law then he didn’t even stick around to test the waters. He ran to our two biggest antagonists with tera-bytes of State Secrets. Years ago that would have openly reeked of outright treason. "He should consider himself lucky enough there are enough people who are caught up in the whole “Big Brother" scare who sympathize with him. "And enough politicians who speak out of both sides of their mouths who are willing to pander to these either “Libertarian Types" or Neo-Liberals." That sounds pretty law-and-order right wing to me. But I admit I was being hyperbolic. I don't think you are as right wing as I said. %-P And you often make good points. You contribute a lot to the forum. Can we be friends? Lois
35

Of course we can be friends.
None of those statements are Right-wing. They might be brusque or opinionated,
Certainly my views on mental-health and or the massive amounts of pharma that is being marketed for such “purposes” is
nothing more than a concerned viewpoint that anybody of any ideology could have.
As a strong supporter of Labor and Trades, and a strong supporter of a good, healthy, vibrant National Working class, issues like these concern
me. I may view them as a collapse or erosion of values that I feel are important to maintain this working class.
It’s ok for liberals or lefts to use the word “Slacker”! It really is. We should use it more often.
Next, the Snowden issue. I’ll keep it short, 'cause it’s the wrong thread.
As a Left winger, I believe in Big Government. I have no immediate concerns with a strong, centralized, government.
Even when Bush began(did he begin this? No! He might have expanded it or improved it) this business of monitoring comms, and internal surveillance I didn’t cringe all that much. And I hated Bush! But those measures all seemed acceptable and pretty much necessary to me after what happened.
Most forms of Leftism accept or want Big Government. Snowden in my view is nothing more than a troubled, malcontent who leaped before he looked. He played right into the hands of millions of fringers, libertarians, Tin-Foil Hatters, paranoid CT’ers etc, money grubbing media outlets etc.

36
Next, the Snowden issue. I’ll keep it short, ‘cause it’s the wrong thread. As a Left winger, I believe in Big Government. I have no immediate concerns with a strong, centralized, government. Even when Bush began(did he begin this? No! He might have expanded it or improved it) this business of monitoring comms, and internal surveillance I didn’t cringe all that much. And I hated Bush! But those measures all seemed acceptable and pretty much necessary to me after what happened. Most forms of Leftism accept or want Big Government. Snowden in my view is nothing more than a troubled, malcontent who leaped before he looked. He played right into the hands of millions of fringers, libertarians, Tin-Foil Hatters, paranoid CT’ers etc, money grubbing media outlets etc.
The one positive thing that Snowden did was to bring the issue of internet spying to everyone's attention. Once again, nothing new just better hardware to spy with, and now those who are aware of the potential will be a lot less cavalier with passwords and other personal information even though we're all aware that IF elements of the government want to crack into your personal account/s they could do so with ease but there are other hackers out there with less sofisticated hardware. Regarding Snowden, I've posted it before if he wants to make his statement more effective he should accept Kerry's offer and come home. He'll have to face prosecution but surely he thought of that before he broke his cover and dumped state secrets out for all to see. As it stands now many Americans, including the Congess have branded him a traitor. He should, as Sec. Kerry said, "man up" and face the music instead of hiding in a country previously hostile to his own. Cap't Jack
37
Regarding Snowden, I've posted it before if he wants to make his statement more effective he should accept Kerry's offer and come home. He'll have to face prosecution but surely he thought of that before he broke his cover and dumped state secrets out for all to see. As it stands now many Americans, including the Congess have branded him a traitor. He should, as Sec. Kerry said, "man up" and face the music instead of hiding in a country previously hostile to his own. Cap't Jack
I have a hard time with this "tough guy" line of reasoning. I readily acknowledge that Snowden ending up in Russia makes him an easy target for criticism. Definitely not a politically savvy move--although it's not like he had much choice where he ended up. Beggars can't be choosers. But coming home to America to make his case seems more foolish than brave. It would basically guarantee that he'd spend at least the next couple of decades in Federal prison. It's not a fight he could win legally, no matter how much in the moral right he is. How did it work out for Bradley Manning? Not too well. He's basically never been given the opportunity to publicly "make his case" to the American people. Instead, he rotted in inhumane isolation conditions under suicide watch for a year or so before even going to trial. And now, he's rotting in Federal prison, and the mainstream media has more or less forgotten about him. The U.S. Government isn't going to give any whistle blowers the chance to have a "hero moment".
38
I have a hard time with this “tough guy" line of reasoning. I readily acknowledge that Snowden ending up in Russia makes him an easy target for criticism. Definitely not a politically savvy move—although it’s not like he had much choice where he ended up. Beggars can’t be choosers. But coming home to America to make his case seems more foolish than brave. It would basically guarantee that he’d spend at least the next couple of decades in Federal prison. It’s not a fight he could win legally, no matter how much in the moral right he is.
And I have an equally hard time with people who perform high profile acts aimed at protesting governmental policies or whistleblowing, then scurrying off to hide in a corner instead of accepting the consequences of their actions. Snowden considers himself a "patriot" for outing the illegal practices of the NSA. Patriots don't hide for fear of what "may" happen to them. He could easily rise to that status by facing the music, no matter what. It's his sacrifice and public opinion would have definitely swung his way had he done so. And no, he decided to stay in Russia even if he didn't give Putin any classified info. What he did give him was a greater popularity amongst his own people who long for the old Soviet Union. So now, after the Russians tire of him he can spend the rest of his life scurrying from country to country, always hiding from prosecution, always looking over his shoulder. A mobile prison. And BTW, Bradley Manning was a soldier under military law. He's lucky he wasn't executed. Let me be perfectly clear here, what both men did needed to be done; the public needs to know about these illegal practices and pressure the government to make changes. Now Snowden needs to "man up" and face the consequences. Cap't Jack
39
I have a hard time with this "tough guy" line of reasoning.
Does everything seem like bullying or "Tough Guy Responses" to you? There's other people on here who have well reasoned and rational viewpoints and opinions. These aren't "Tough Guy Responses".
40
Of course we can be friends. None of those statements are Right-wing. They might be brusque or opinionated, Certainly my views on mental-health and or the massive amounts of pharma that is being marketed for such "purposes" is nothing more than a concerned viewpoint that anybody of any ideology could have. As a strong supporter of Labor and Trades, and a strong supporter of a good, healthy, vibrant National Working class, issues like these concern me. I may view them as a collapse or erosion of values that I feel are important to maintain this working class. It's ok for liberals or lefts to use the word "Slacker"! It really is. We should use it more often. Next, the Snowden issue. I'll keep it short, 'cause it's the wrong thread. As a Left winger, I believe in Big Government. I have no immediate concerns with a strong, centralized, government. Even when Bush began(did he begin this? No! He might have expanded it or improved it) this business of monitoring comms, and internal surveillance I didn't cringe all that much. And I hated Bush! But those measures all seemed acceptable and pretty much necessary to me after what happened. Most forms of Leftism accept or want Big Government. Snowden in my view is nothing more than a troubled, malcontent who leaped before he looked. He played right into the hands of millions of fringers, libertarians, Tin-Foil Hatters, paranoid CT'ers etc, money grubbing media outlets etc.
What has Snowdon done that damages the people? He reported that the government was breaking the law and lying about it. How are we any worse off knowing what they are doing than being kept in the dark about outright fraud against the people on the part of a government agency. If they can break laws about the surveillance of citizens without being called on it, what other laws will they blithely break against the people? Are you happy with your government taking you for a fool? And do you wish to shoot the messenger who tells you what's going on behind your back? Would you rather be kept in the dark? Lois