jufa said, Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa. Hm, what about Love, Honor, Fidelity, Respect, Fortitude? All those are abstractions of a natueal mathemical essence (potentials) of spacetime itself.My signature has nothing to do with this topic. Move on and start another topic dealing with it. Again, and for the last time I submit the following inquiry for discussion: How far can pursuit, by human mind of thought go?." If no response to it per se is not forthcoming. this conversation for me has hit a brick wall... Moving on, I yam, said Popeye.
Anything wrong with that?In this thread you, as well as others have not lived by (e) “Trolling" is not allowed. This includes posting derogatory or inflammatory messages with the intent to bait an overheated response, as well as behavior that in the Moderators’ judgement is gratuitously argumentative, combative, or inflammatory with the apparent intent to prolong debate for its own sake rather than promote, defend, or critique a particular idea or point of view. I would need to be convinced that others do that to you. I've seen several people flat out tell you they think you are wrong. That is not baiting. You are the one posting vague words, then not answering questions about them.
jufa - Just some friendly advice. English seems to not be your native tongue. Nothing wrong with that of course except it’s hard enough to discuss concrete topics like gardening when you’re English is so bad. When the conversation is about vague metaphysical topics…forget it.
jufa - Just some friendly advice. English seems to not be your native tongue. Nothing wrong with that of course except it's hard enough to discuss concrete topics like gardening when you're English is so bad. When the conversation is about vague metaphysical topics...forget it.Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves." Carl Jung
In the living of my life, I have ran across persons who, because they have been book educated and wear big hats on small heads, and believe because they have a degree in this, and doctorate in that, this places them on a pedestal. It does not. Such persons forget they had to be taught all they know, and though they may stand out in grasping, it does not indicate the truth of their intelligence.
An intelligent person is not born out of being able to retain what is learned from books. An intelligent person is born out of failure, and the persistence to arise and continue on the
quest which will not only prove to be glorious to themselves, but to all who look upon them and seek a willing heart, and an open mind to be touched and given hope.
You will always run into the troubled in mind, the angry persons, the snooty, the ones who will always bring an attitude to you, regardless, because they will not accept or reject that
which their souls accept or reject, because the big hats on their small heads covers their eye of comprehension, and they can see no further then the brim of the hat they are wearing. You, CuthbertJ, also have the opportunity to accept these persons and their views and attitudes, or you can reject them. In the final analysis, your living as being an activist to your cause, or a conformist to their cause depends entirely on what you set in motion according to your experience, not what you have been told or taught.
Live your life, for in a truth, and a present truth, you cannot live the life of anyone else, and you cannot be anyone else but you.
jufa,
As the thread stands, it is you who is trolling, I am sorry to say,.
Your opening statement makes no logical sense, yet you insist that anyone who is trying to unpack it as written, is missing the point .
Aside from a lsmall attempt at humor in response to someone else’s remark, in the spirit of “good will” I have given several links which I thought might be pertinent to your viewpoint and assist in gaining perspective, if you will.
Have you read any of these very informative sites? If so, where do my suggestions fail to trigger an empathic response from you and cause you mental discomfort? If you came to this forum with a QUESTION, then try to listen and understand the responses. You are the seeker, the least you can do is appreciate the efforts of the responders. .
It seems then that your proposition (OP) of some undefined universal mind needs revision. If you wish to debate your “vision”, you will need to present some reference to an existing philosophy fbr clarification. Iwould certainly afford you the courtesy of checking it out. I am still waiting for a link, which I requested in an earlier post.
Instead of accusing the readers of ignorance because they fail to understand yuor non-sensical posits is the mark of a Troll (and as I observed earlier) a troll with an agenda, even as you believe it is your source of strength.
Unfortunately you are employing the very tactics which you are condemning in your signature statement.
p.s A poster’s signature reveals his “mindset” and analysing your fundamental state of mind IS important. You may want to revisit that as well.
p.p.s. Calling someone as “wearing a big hat on a small mind” is a reportable ad hominem. Practise what you preach, sir. Your apparent
mental discomfort diminishes the ability to reason, and credibility.
Well, I don’t think language is the problem.
That is an astounding few paragraphs there jufa. It’s either true, and we are so beneath your abilities to discern truth that we can’t comprehend it, or it’s false, just made up.
So, the only question I have is, how do you discern truth? You don’t seem to like books or degrees, that’s clear. What is the path from where we are to where you are?
jufa,
Just a thought.
IMO, the mind you try to identify is called the state of mind called Empathy, the common ability to identify patterns and appreciate their beauty, which, when shared is the mind you speak of.
Think of the human mind as a pursuit in a fractality.
Lausten, Writer4U, An intellect or philosopher, to me, always depends on their concept of philosophy. Their knowledge and philosophy, therefore, should be more than an intellectual exercise, and more of "a guide to life and an integral aspect enriching living. The base line of my saying such is because an intellect, to me, is not one who has a phd, or degrees of any kind of schooling and is asserted to be an authority on a subject. Such persons deserve their credit of learning but, in my evaluation, which goes no further than myself, those who can retain book learning in their heads does not necessary mean they can apply what they have learned in actual situations with moral & spiritual integrity… “Le Miserable” by Victor Hugo comes to mind, and how one character strictly went by the law, and the other was compassionate due to living life and seeing adaptation must be made if peace of mind was to be obtained and held. “Le Miserable.” Each was true to themselves, but one died by his own will, Le Miserable, lost as to why the compassion of he whom was pursued tortured him so.
I have always lived a life of a rebel. As long as I can remember I have looked to the heavens, and in amazement wondered how everything is held in order and chaos does not abound. Never have I acknowledged humanity was created to be repetitious, for the intent and purpose of repetition for three score and some odd years, when life itself shows us it is endless, and everything must eventually change in structure. But does the changing of structure change the principled substance and patterned essence of life order?
To me this is the quest. And I have come to know this quest cannot be found from another person’s ideas, concepts, ideology, philosophy, belief, or learning. So I am determined in what I know and acknowledge. Most I’ve found do not appreciate such determination expressed. They think one is arrogant, self-righteous, and so forth. Yet they will tell you in a minute be true to yourself. I do not have to tell you the aftermath of being true to yourself when dual natures are openly displayed.
Good morning jufa. Well, you’re not wrong. Being true to yourself is important and there is a difference between “book smart” and “street smarts”. I’m happy for you that you are inspired by the infinite universe. I’ve had people call me arrogant too, usually it’s because they think they are smarter than me and just want to shut me up. But none of that gets us very far on the path to this transcendant state you’ve talked about.
I think this sentence says a lot about why this is not coming across very well:
And I have come to know this quest cannot be found from another person’s ideas, concepts, ideology, philosophy, belief, or learning. So I am determined in what I know and acknowledge.That's not possible. You can't know much without listening to others. Even if you found a book lying around that no one you know ever heard of, it's still a book written by another person. Your ideas are not that unique. I've heard similar things from other people, so, actually, they CAN be found from other persons. That doesn't make the ideas wrong, it means we come up with better ideas when we talk to other and allow our minds to be changed by each other.
Lausten, “We ride the backs of all people who have been and who live today. We suck their blood, and steal their wisdom, and sell them out for a pair of shoes, or a piece of bread, and we begin to believe we are better than they. Man is full of $hit, his own $hit of self-righteousness selfishness, for he refuse to take the responsibility to fine what is right for him without killing and raping his brothers and sisters for that which belongs to them.
It doesn’t matter what I say or acknowledge, the great thing about life is people can address a subject, and not speak upon issues which will make them ponder what others are saying to be just as probative as issues others are attempting to forge into idealism without anything other than what they feel, or believe. Feelings, as well as ‘I believe and think’ are idealistic perspective which are guided by a cause, or banner, or button of commitment to change by whatever means necessary.
Nature and nurture are aspects of life. Nature is the element of being which produce all avenues to walk the experience of its provided potential. Nurture is the awareness of the potential, but can only be applied, sincerely, when an individual understand where they come from, and where they are, as the continuum of themselves being the teacher, and also the student.
Jesus, Buddha, Laotzu, Confucius, Socrates, Plato have presented, the truth of a lie, is also in the lie of the truth, concerning the ‘meaning of life’ s nature as definitively conceptual. No individual, group, or the entire mass of people can just walk through the trial, and tribulations of living without any wisdom to expand beyond the sentient mind, and achieve the Mount of transfiguration. Why? Because all living is a personal preference of one’s life of ease, despair, hope, or hopelessness, based on lies regardless of what one states as truth, and vice versa.
Beauty does not mean the same for all. Religion and atheism are either based upon events of beliefs of “Look what God has done for me.” Or “Why would a loving God allow this to happen?” Each believer believes they are special, and the cornerstone of what they believe. That what is claimed normal circumstance, conditions, situations, and events which befalls other men, women, and children will not effect them until it does. I have seen none exempt from the capriciousness of life. The A.Crowley’s as well as the Moses’ walk the path of life subject to the same goods and evils as every one else, irrespective of nature or nurture. There are no exception. The only magic, mysticism, or supernatural influences one is subject to are those who reach a place, within themselves, and find the beauty of cause and effect to be one, according to one’s trend of thinking, or divided abstractions, according to their thinking. In either case, the meaning of life, nonetheless, is still a metaphor to not only individual man, but mankind itself. Why? because no one can fathom the reality of the metaphor is to become the metaphor in living it.
It doesn’t matter what I say, acknowledge, the same applies to all people. Life’s meaning is about the business of man’s individual understanding of his nature, and innate qualities projected according to individualized interpretations, and beliefs, which are fragments of one’s own outer objective vision, and inner subjective feelings.
Nature and nurture are indeed aspects of life, but not separate elements. They are the fillers of the thought of Consciousness to be lived whole, perfect, complete, and pure in the understanding all things work together for good to them that love God,” and comprehend, in themselves, their inner temple, not made with hands, is in this world, but not of this world." - jufa
Lausten, "We ride the backs of all people who have been and who live today. We suck their blood, and steal their wisdom, and sell them out for a pair of shoes, or a piece of bread, and we begin to believe we are better than they. Man is full of $hit, his own $hit of self-righteousness selfishness, for he refuse to take the responsibility to fine what is right for him without killing and raping his brothers and sisters for that which belongs to them.Huh. We almost had a conversation going there for a moment, but when you start to feel like you might have to think, you start going on rants about how everyone else is full of shit. Who is this "man" that you speak of? Humankind? All people? That would include you. You don't get to pass judgment on your species and not take responsibility for being part of that species. In the history of science and philosophy, we can identify ideas that arose in a generation, sometimes in one person. We can trace how those ideas shaped what we are today. Nothing you've said indicates to me that you are one of those people.
Lausten, "We ride the backs of all people who have been and who live today. We suck their blood, and steal their wisdom, and sell them out for a pair of shoes, or a piece of bread, and we begin to believe we are better than they. Man is full of $hit, his own $hit of self-righteousness selfishness, for he refuse to take the responsibility to fine what is right for him without killing and raping his brothers and sisters for that which belongs to them.Huh. We almost had a conversation going there for a moment, but when you start to feel like you might have to think, you start going on rants about how everyone else is full of shit. Who is this "man" that you speak of? Humankind? All people? That would include you. You don't get to pass judgment on your species and not take responsibility for being part of that species. In the history of science and philosophy, we can identify ideas that arose in a generation, sometimes in one person. We can trace how those ideas shaped what we are today. Nothing you've said indicates to me that you are one of those people. The difference here is in the art of listening, which is saying you are so busy talking at me, you refuse to talk to me. To be sure, I bring one simple word to your attention to establish my point of inclusion of myself in my statement, and that word is "WE."
In the history of science and philosophy, we can identify ideas that arose in a generation, sometimes in one person. We can trace how those ideas shaped what we are today. Nothing you've said indicates to me that you are one of those people.If you would have listened you would have heard me say, before you went off into the history of science and philosophy,
It doesn’t matter what I say, acknowledge, the same applies to all people.But then why should I say anything of value to you when you have presented nothing of value which would give ways to your personality and begin to communicate. You do know communication without relationship has no meaning don't you?
Lausten, "We ride the backs of all people who have been and who live today. We suck their blood, and steal their wisdom, and sell them out for a pair of shoes, or a piece of bread, and we begin to believe we are better than they. Man is full of $hit, his own $hit of self-righteousness selfishness, for he refuse to take the responsibility to fine what is right for him without killing and raping his brothers and sisters for that which belongs to them.Huh. We almost had a conversation going there for a moment, but when you start to feel like you might have to think, you start going on rants about how everyone else is full of shit. Who is this "man" that you speak of? Humankind? All people? That would include you. You don't get to pass judgment on your species and not take responsibility for being part of that species. In the history of science and philosophy, we can identify ideas that arose in a generation, sometimes in one person. We can trace how those ideas shaped what we are today. Nothing you've said indicates to me that you are one of those people. The difference here is in the art of listening, which is saying you are so busy talking at me, you refuse to talk to me. To be sure, I bring one simple word to your attention to establish my point of inclusion of myself in my statement, and that word is "WE." I saw that, but you have a running theme of how you have somehow broken out of that "we", you keep saying things like,
The only magic, mysticism, or supernatural influences one is subject to are those who reach a place, within themselves, and find the beauty of cause and effect to be one,
In the history of science and philosophy, we can identify ideas that arose in a generation, sometimes in one person. We can trace how those ideas shaped what we are today. Nothing you've said indicates to me that you are one of those people.If you would have listened you would have heard me say, before you went off into the history of science and philosophy, "It doesn’t matter what I say, acknowledge, the same applies to all people." But then why should I say anything of value to you when you have presented nothing of value which would give ways to your personality and begin to communicate. You do know communication without relationship has no meaning don't you? I do know that. But you ask for a relationship then you keep repeating that we just don't get you. It's like trying to relate to a child who has a secret world they invented and won't explain it but gets mad when you don't understand it. How can I relate to this:
and comprehend, in themselves, their inner temple, not made with hands, is in this world, but not of this world.It's in you, not in the world that we share. You've told me nothing that can get me to this world, except that I'm supposed to forget everything I know and consider every book just words on a page with no real meaning and that everything we do is BS. Not much to work with there.
If men learn nothing else, they should know life is as a flowing river, they can never touch the same spot twice within in. You are seeking to touch the same spot in a moving river you have dipped into. By so doing you do not realize your meandering has placed you in a box of your own choosing which has imprisoned you within it with no escape possible unless? But that is your choice, and I do not have to indulge you in your self-confinement.
You keep attempting to separate us and deny every man’s plight, struggle and experience is one within humanity. John Donne so eloquently stated in his epic poem “No Man Is An Island… every man is a piece of the continent; a part of the main. . .any man’s death diminishes me because I am involved in mankind; therefore, never send for whom the bells tools, it tolls for thee.” But as you have demonstrated “We, inclusive of myself, are a stiff-neck people individually and collectively because of “An indoctrination which shape destinies subliminally.”
Never has the mind of man allowed him to come close to finding, and comprehending, anything in the material world of thought which will reveal he must die to to the flesh thought system. Or that the ‘id/ego’ must commit suicide so they will be allowed to open the door into the invisible foundation which cannot be verified by man’s outer objective vision, nor inner subjective feelings. Why? Because the mind’s of men ride the wave of thoughts which are not original in flesh, and advances those thoughts according to their individualized human indoctrination, teachings, and beliefs. The sentient mind always deny and attempt to escape from this truth. But denial and escape is inevitable. All that men undergo in flesh is of the very things they formed by way of thinking and believing. Human thoughts do not change to make individuals. The collective society of people never reach up and beyond the rhetoric of repetition, and never make a difference in sentient society and cultural… Dualism of human determinism is, and has always been according to the movement of human thought…Divide and conquer.” - J.Fann,Jr.
If you do not bring forth a philosophy of your own, and continue to feed off what I declare, I have found just how far the pursuit of your human mind of thought go. You can say what you may, but if you do not give me a base for the opposition you put up, I dismiss myself from indulging myself with you. Do not expect a response if this criteria is not met.
If you do not bring forth a philosophy of your own, and continue to feed off what I declare, I have found just how far the pursuit of your human mind of thought go. You can say what you may, but if you do not give me a base for the opposition you put up, I dismiss myself from indulging myself with you. Do not expect a response if this criteria is not met.You've asked me very little of my philosophy. I have one, but you didn't ask about it. You asked an odd question, the title of this thread. I tried to ask what you meant by it, but you just told me that I don't understand because I think too much, or something. I don't really care anymore. But without asking me about me, you've decided what is going on in my head. I've merely pointed out that I can't see inside your mind, that's not a controversial statement. It shouldn't bother you. It shouldn't lead you to make conclusion about what books I've read or what I thought about them. You ask for things like "give me a base for the opposition you put up", that I have no idea what that means. I can't meet a criteria that doesn't make sense. But when I ask you to please explain, you once again tell me we are all locked in the flesh or whatever. Sounds a lot like St. Paul. He died in prison. It was centuries later that his writings were re-interpreted and then those interpretations were forced on people by the Roman army. If you don't have such an army, I'd recommend looking for some different ideas.
jufa said, If men learn nothing else, they should know life is as a flowing river, they can never touch the same spot twice within in.If you don't read any books, how can you know that no one has has proposed this before? I can think of several philosophers and meta-physicists who have written extensively on the subject you seek answers to. I am sure they would not be offended, being cited as having contributed to human knowledge and understanding. If you will just "check out" David Bohm's Pilot Wave theory, you will find much of what you are seeking. And it is true that scientists and philosophers are standing on the shoulders of those who came before. But why are you berating that? Is that not the empathy (joining of minds) you seek? Your use of language IS already standing on the shoulders of who came before. Reality and Evolution itself is based on what came before. p.s. Aside from being a lay person myself, English is my second language also, but I read a lot and that has helped me express my own thoughts in a way that is understandable to other well-read persons. That does not make me right, but it makes me understandable, so that a meeting of the minds is possible.
In my closing statement in this topic, I’ve discovered most people will not come to a very hard conclusion there are some people who has a better mind then they, which is saying they are not willing to accept themselves and tools and limitations. And in quoting M.L.King, Jr,
“But you know in life were called upon to do this. A Ford car trying to be a Cadillac is absurd, but if a Ford will accept itself as a Ford, it can do many things that a Cadillac could never do: it can get in parking spaces that a Cadillac can never get in. And in life some of us are Fords and some of us are Cadillac’s. Moses says in “Green Pastures,” “Lord, I ain’t much, but I is all I got.” The principle of self-acceptance is a basic principle in life. . .What I’m saying to you this morning, my friends, even if it falls your lot to be a street sweeper, go on out and sweep streets like Michelangelo painted pictures; sweep streets like Handel and Beethoven composed music; sweep streets like Shakespeare wrote poetry; sweep streets so well that all the host of heaven and earth will have to pause and say, “Here lived a great street sweeper who swept his job well.”
If you cant be a pine on the top of a hill
Be a scrub in the valley but be
The best little scrub on the side of the hill,
Be a bush if you cant be a tree.
If you cant be a highway just be a trail
If you cant be the sun be a star;
It isn’t by size that you win or fail
Be the best of whatever you are.
And when you do this, when you do this, you’ve mastered the length of life.”
My closing statement (although I’m never done with a thread, but anyway):
Take your own advice jufa.
jufa - Just some friendly advice. English seems to not be your native tongue. Nothing wrong with that of course except it's hard enough to discuss concrete topics like gardening when you're English is so bad. When the conversation is about vague metaphysical topics...forget it.Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves." Carl Jung