Evolution will not be a secular Moses

On a recent interview with Richard Carrier on “Think for Yourself” they came to a discussion about how to develop morality. There are a few avenues I want to explore with this. Part of me says I don’t have time, and another part says it’s important to both my work with Restorative Justice and Braver Angels. After about a half hour of talking about funerals and secularism, they get into it first with a review of how all philosophers use a form hypothetical imperative, then the idea of using AI.

The AI one got me thinking about my early years of developing a moral system, when I was definitely not following the system of law or a higher law from religion. I’ve since improved on those thoughts, which at the time resulted in the bad system of “society sucks, so might as well just get high”. This is really a version of the freeloader problem; where others have worked out a system for creating the society where I can have my fun.

Carrier has a blog on “Will AI Be our Moses?” Will AI Be Our Moses? • Richard Carrier Blogs, one of the things I want to explore more. In this talk, he posits, the way to get a computer to help would be give it one directive, one rule: to find truth. Then when you ask it about morality it would consider not only what feels good but what brings satisfaction in the long run, and you would be well on your way to all the things we debate and ponder are good for life.

In the middle of that, after he’s already said AI can’t be our Moses, he also mentions that Evolution can’t be our Moses. I wish he would do a blog on that, but I haven’t seen one. I think he’s saying something I’ve been working on, and he’s added some missing parts. I have a prison near me and I know some of the therapists and have followed the rise and fall of their programs. Those programs and Restorative Justice are responding to the failure of our retributive system to stop crime and heal the victims, the things they have claimed to do. But that failure does not result in the end of arresting people who are harmful and removing them from society.

What it leads to is asking what we do once the harm is done. The answers to that are similar to what we should be doing before the harm is done. We know harm is being done to children all the time and we know its harmful to separate children from their parents. Until we can make progress in that area, we will continue to have institutions like the Catholic Church and prison systems where the guards are committing crimes. Or, something more within reach; fixing an educational system where we’re still debating if God’s word should be considered as an alternative to science.

So, that’s probably enough for the scope of this. Getting back to Evolution as Moses. It comes up when one of them mentions people acting with compassion and the other says, “well you hope so.” That’s the problem, as Carrier describes, there is a bell curve with people on one end who are highly compassionate. We value that, hold that up as an ideal, but it’s not average or normal. If everyone, or at least a lot more, were highly compassionate we wouldn’t have the problem of compassion being exploited by those on the other end of that bell curve. But we know if you have a “give-away” program, someone will claim to be in need who really isn’t. We need guardrails, some trust but with verification of trustworthiness.

Everyone sort of agrees with that, but then the “how” of it becomes another chance to appear moral or compassionate but really not be at all. So we get a law about showing an ID when you vote or we allow police to act on “reasonable suspicion” and don’t put the guardrails on “reasonable”. I use those examples because I think they are solvable within the system we have. More difficult will be getting back to trusting our neighbors.

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Morals should be based on generality to mankind’s history of prominent factors that have had the best results for our ancestors. The Catholic Church and all branches of the Paulin Christianity should be trashed. Teaching morals needs to be taught at a young age. As Jefferson wanted morals taught on the Gnostic teachings of Jesus. The question to be answered is. If the historic meaning of God translates means “knowledge”. And AI is knowledge. Then can AI craft stories of morals for teaching our children?

Of course, we have learned that this cannot be done without addressing the dilemmas of the Holy Spirit at the same time. It is looking like AI may only be a generation away from being able to solve the Holy Spirit problem with a new technology of taking a person’s brain data and moving it to the cloud to be available forever. Relat. - Neuraliink.

Time Mag - That the technology might be used to allow companies to read minds or users to offload their memories is not happening any time soon—though the future is still wide open. Jan 30, 2024

AI - According to current information, Neuralink began its first human trials in September 2023, marking a significant step towards reading brain activity with their brain-computer interface (BCI) device; however, the full capability to interpret complex thoughts or “read the brain” is still considered to be in the long-term future, with estimates suggesting potential advancements could take several years to fully develop and be widely available.

The second problem of the Evolution of Moses. History calls the problem, “Greed”. Science calls the problem,” hegemony”. History shows it to be a characteristic of mankind’s Civilization building. That is why one person can look at a problem and end up with a republican leaning view and another person can look at the same problem with a democrat leaning view.

No

When did we learn that?

What are you talking about?

You can also use timeline and links in the description, but here’s where the morality part starts

26: It’s not just pleasure and happiness, “satisfaction” is the better term. Not hedonism, rather, can you respect yourself with the reasons you have for acting as you do?
27: This leads to a search for beliefs that aren’t false and living based on the truth you find.
28: All moral philosophies are the same Open Letter to Academic Philosophy: All Your Moral Theories Are the Same • Richard Carrier Blogs
28:45 His formal statement, and how it links to societal morality: "Morality is a system of hypothetical imperatives about how you can get right with yourself and live a satisfying life. That includes being internally satisfied with yourself and externally, like how you get along, how you create a civil society, maintain a civil society, and flourish in a civil society. You have to do all of those things for your own satisfaction.
29: It’s not just a collection of consequences. It’s not just functional.
30: Aside about Harris’ Moral Landscape. EX: In the goal of having safe traffic, you have to pick driving on the left or right side of the road. You can’t just keep switching.
31:40 This leads to him talking about the goal of morality. That’s where you start. Life satisfaction is a good choice and the search then is for the best way to get there. Accepting that you probably won’t make it to the peak of that is part of the self-satisfaction.
32: That’s a good time for him to show Christianity doesn’t do this, and how that fails. They want you to “buy” their morality and do a poor job of defending it. Their’s is not based on empiricism, so any rule within it can be shown to be bad for society and therefore bad for self-satisfaction. If they see how their rule fails, they will ditch any logical discussion and change to “it’s for pleasing God”. An atheist philosophy, based on empirical evidence, can get you out of those “ditches”.

Brandon Thain, the podcaster then starts the conversation about convincing an AI computer that this moral system works

Before industrialization there was a lot of ignorance. We can look at what was learned in the highest institutions of ancient times and see this. Even later, we can see Kings who were basically illiterate. Knowing that, we can excuse the actions of people while also knowing those actions were wrong. This gets more complicated in the world of global exploration when we see systems develop that promoted freedom, mobility, and increased welfare. Still, information moved slowly, and people were punished for seeking it out.

By the time we get to the mid-20th century, these excuses for ignorance are harder to justify. Today, it seems impossible that anyone with a basic education can’t figure something out, simply by looking it up. Yet, people don’t. Bonhoeffer saw this as a paradox that stupidity isn’t weak, it’s a strong social force, more dangerous than evil. He offers a look into the difference between ignorance and stupidity. His examination of problems caused by evil as compared to problems caused by people who have fallen into the easy answers of authority over reasoning should have taught us something about how to govern ourselves. That we haven’t, tells me it’s not a simple as we would like it to be. That most people don’t know the names mentioned in this video; Bonhoeffer, Arendt, and Russell, is a clue that these ideas aren’t just lost over time, they are hidden, buried under misinformation.

Evil can be confronted with reason and contained. Stupidity resists those forces. Ignorance can be corrected by identifying it. Stupidity shuts off that avenue deliberately. Even if power is gained through reason, the powerful can get lazy or stop believing they need to keep questioning themselves or the systems they created. When that is passed on over a generation, it becomes entrenched. Some solutions eventually are presented at the end of this talk, but even those have paradoxes.

Those who do question themselves, who use critical thinking, can be mystified by the actions of those who don’t. The people who don’t reflect on the consequences of their actions can be equally mystified that anyone would think that we can think our way out of our problems. Thinkers, like Bonhoeffer and Arendt may have hoped for a day when education, better economic systems, or simply lessening the burdens of labor would lead to less ignorance and improvement in how we handle stupidity. Instead, we still have justice systems that put minor criminals in prisons where they learn to be better criminals and oppressed people who clearly see how unjust the system is. Meanwhile, schools teach that the world has become more just.

“Arendt identified how individual refusal to question the authority of the state, the disregard for moral responsibility, and the failure to recognize the larger consequences of one’s actions are hallmarks of the kind of thinking that enables tyranny”

The call to action then, is to resist the pressures of conformity, to avoid falling into the trap of thoughtlessness, and to question the systems of power. This includes awakening others from their intellectual slumber, to encourage independent thought, and to ensure the mechanisms of power are held accountable. And we must recognize these tendencies in ourselves. Cultivating critical thinking is a lifelong pursuit while conformity is easy.

Bertrand Russell (begins at 9 minutes) saw how ignorance was rewarded and intelligence was penalized. He saw the preference for simple ideas over complex thinking. He also saw the structures that encourage stupidity. Sound bites and slogans avoid complexity. This was a trend in his time that has grown to weaponized proportions in ours. Certainty wins out over the complexity of reality.

Russell connected the historical trends to human psychology, the comfort of black and white answers versus the challenges of ambiguity and contradictions. That comfort is false but choosing engagement with reality takes effort. Mass media has made this situation worse, creating ideological bubbles where the comfort of group think is easily found and ignorance is actively nurtured.

At around 15 minutes

The cycle that Russell identified has repeated since his lifetime and intensified. That is, intelligent individuals find themselves at odds with current politics and are marginalized or repressed. Intelligence is devalued and further suppressed. Foolishness and stupidity fill the void. This is not a passive dynamic. The narrator asks if we are willing to “confront the discomfort of intelligence”.

They also point out stupidity is not only an individual failing. We recognize that children need an education, but we don’t have structures that ask what an adult needs when they fail to act in a way that promotes a better world. Stupidity is “a contagious social phenomenon” that is ingrained in the fabric of society.

As Yuval Harrari has recently elucidated, we are buried under the weight of information, some of it falsely legitimated through repetition. People gravitate towards a simple answer rather than critically engaging with complex issues. Social norms override dissent and reflection which increases polarization. The pressure to conform disconnects us from reality.

It begins early with teachers punishing kids for asking questions, instead of encouraging them to work through the logic and evidence. Skepticism is impotent when it is only a reaction to that authority, questioning without applying thinking. When groups adopt ideas the challenge of considering alternatives for people in that group increases. Lazy thinking becomes the norm and questioning is ostracized.

At 19:30 some serious strategies are finally considered.

Develop a mindset that values curiosity

Step outside of your social comfort zone and challenge your own beliefs

Constant learning and openness

Use of education, dialogue, and a commitment to independent thought

I think the talk falls short at this point. What it suggests, this list above, is how a PhD is conducted, how someone goes from a student to a partner in learning and questioning their own field of expertise. But that needs to start in Pre-K. It needs to come from leadership. Too often, when the questions from constituents get heated, the answer is that “it’s complicated” and “we’re working on it.” Compare this to someone like Neil DeGrasse Tyson who can be seen encouraging people in his audience.

But let’s see what these guys say at 21:30

It starts with a repeat of “continuous intellectual engagement” and “don’t conform” and “question everything.”

They move on to Arendt’s need for moral and intellectual reflection. We are active moral agents in the world, accepting an authority’s version is the path to stupidity. One item I heard that maybe needs some focus, is taking responsibility for our actions. In my lifetime I’ve seen too much shouting of moral high truths and not so much humility about our moral failures.

They state that we “must” become more discerning consumers of information, but don’t provide much help with how to do that. A difficult one, perhaps even another paradox, is to surround ourselves with people who challenge us. To do that, you first need to develop the skill of recognizing who is encouraging you to grow intellectually and who is drawing you back into group think. I hope I’ve accomplished that in my few decades, but it was trail and error, sometimes years of error.

They mention encouraging debate, but that word is loaded with images of winning arguments through rhetorical tactics. I encourage the use of the word “dialog” where everyone is drawing out ideas, looking for input from everyone in the conversation, rather than using the same tactics of the authoritarians to demonstrate one right answer. They mention how we now value an appearance of confidence, but don’t discuss how to foster intellectual humility.

Perhaps my latest attempt at surrounding myself with people who challenge me will be another dead end, but I see differences. I see guidelines that say we all have blind spots. I see acknowledgment that not everyone will join the group that is questioning everything. I see valuing listening over assuming the role of authoritative teacher. I see those values and suggestions being followed by the people with leadership titles. This is the difference between awakening others and telling them they are wrong.

I caught a short clip this evening of Harrari saying that science began when we realized we were ignorant. It wasn’t a scientific discovery of intelligence that started that revolution, it was the admission that we don’t know everything and we don’t have special books with the truth in them.

Here’s a shorter version about Bonhoeffer’s theory that starts right out relating the theory to today’s populism. It also adds data and evidence for how we as humans are stupid. That is, stupid according to the theory. We follow the herd mentality. Herds are great for things like “herd immunity” but for millions of years, when individuals haven’t known for sure what to do in the moment, they check with the herd. That doesn’t always work out. With increased intelligence, the smart people who understand this can manipulate masses of people by first manipulating a few.

At 8 minutes, something I critiqued the previous talk for is stated succinctly; that Bonhoeffer concluded that stupidity can’t be overcome simply by education and reason. The ways we move someone to critical thinking are usually presented as things you can do for yourself. But what is the boot-up? With ignorance, you can find out something you don’t know by bumping into it, then you can choose to learn about it or put it out of your mind.

So, besides learning about critical thinking yourself, take responsibility for your own actions, and do all of this publicly. This takes courage. I would add what the mention of human evolution and the herd mentality implies; have compassion. Compassion is also inherent, but it is not as strong as the draw to the herd and it is even easier to manipulate.

I tend to focus on the individual when I’m looking into something like how to be moral and what it means to be moral, but at the end of the answer of “what should I do” there is the part about how I am part of a social species. I could survive alone, but only after I made it to somewhere near maturity, and even then, only because millions of others are protecting the open spaces where I could, technically alone. A better next step into what it means to be part of the global human race might be a look at what it is to be free.

I got this idea via an article in the Guardian, but that needs more background, so I went here. This approach is credited to Amartya Sen. I haven’t read the Stanford entry yet, this is what led me there

As with the right it should be a project of individual freedom. But such freedom should be understood as meaningless, or even destructive, if it generates unfreedom elsewhere. The economist Amartya Sen defined unfreedom as constraints beyond our control that undermine our ability to pursue lives of meaning. Inadequate access to food is a source of unfreedom, as is being homeless or not having an education. Franklin Roosevelt put it best when he said that “necessitous men are not free men”.

This has been obvious to me since Reagan. The Right says “freedom,” but it means freedom for the powerful to oppress whomever they want. They get the weak on their side by giving them 50 flavors of Doritos and stadiums. The other side of it is the title of the Guardian article, “The Left needs to abandon its miserable, irrational pessimism.” I’ve never understood how someone who says we are doomed is surprised when no one wants to listen to them. If you say there is no way to fix it, then the conversation is over.

Maybe I should read the counterargument first, but the basic framework is one that I see developing all over. The idea that we can’t keep measuring progress based on GDP alone. Something like knocking down a run-down part of town and building a mall is economic growth; rebuilding homes destroyed by a climate change event is economic growth. Investing in early childhood education scores very low on economic growth indicators but has obvious long-term payoff. Innovation is fine, but we need to track who benefits from it. If people are not free to pursue meaningful lives, then they are not free at all.

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Like the Big Lewboski’s rug, Sam takes a big step toward pulling this altogether. And, yes, I have critiqued many of Sam’s commentaries, particularly on religion and prejudice. If you find that in here, let me know, and also, don’t destroy the whole speech because of one bad section. That’s a logical fallacy, and you know I love pointing those out.

I set this to the point where the question is, “How do we navigate the current landscape?”

He starts with something that happened to me at the cusp of grappling with the moral system I was attempting to glean from progressive Christianity, and the more complicated but logical whole system of secular humanism. The moment, the point from which I could never come back, was when I saw how thin the layer of true evil in humanity is. It’s appeal, as depicted in the devil purchasing a soul in exchange for some good times in life and slightly better position in hell, is strong and draws in a big chunk of people, big enough to create despots and authoritarians.

The solution is simply, to just stop. Stop fighting the armies as if the soldiers are causing the war. Stop arguing with stupidity as if that argument can be won. It was easier to control the crazy when we lived in smaller tribes, but the lessons from those simpler times still apply. If we don’t have compassion for psychopaths, then we don’t really have compassion at all.