Guess there’s a new ABC miniseries “Madoff" premieres February 3, with Richard Dreyfuss playing Bernie Made-off.
Though the reason I’m posting about it is because I think Dreyfuss came up with what might be a spot-on description of a sociopath.
Madoff, Dreyfuss believes, “is a sociopath and that’s a very distinctive thing [from a psychopath].
He never once thinks of, considers, even frames an image of his victims."
“While a psychopath is someone who enjoys doing it?" I ask.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/richard-dreyfuss-bernie-madoff-180957679/
Guess there's a new ABC miniseries “Madoff" premieres February 3, with Richard Dreyfuss playing Bernie Made-off.
Though the reason I'm posting about it is because I think Dreyfuss came up with what might be a spot-on description of a sociopath.
Madoff, Dreyfuss believes, “is a sociopath and that’s a very distinctive thing [from a psychopath].
He never once thinks of, considers, even frames an image of his victims."
“While a psychopath is someone who enjoys doing it?" I ask.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/richard-dreyfuss-bernie-madoff-180957679/
What do you think?
I always thought it was a person with no conscience, sense of compassion or feelings of responsibility for the pain of others.
Both psychopath and sociopath are invented words. Sociopath is usually used in referring to a person with psychopathic tendencies but often without the violent ones. The conditions are similar and are probably triggered by similar childhood experiences or deprivations.
Madoff was not physically violent as far as we know, so he would probably fall into the sociopath category. The harm he caused other people was not physical but financial. Both psychopaths and sociopaths are often highly intelligent, but lack compassion and a sense of responsibility. But psychological conditions are often hard to differentiate.
Lois
Apparently the terms Sociopathy and Psychopathy aren’t really used by Psychologists, they’re lumped together into a thing called Antisocial Personality Disorder].
Apparently the terms Sociopathy and Psychopathy aren't really used by Psychologists, they're lumped together into a thing called Antisocial Personality Disorder].
rhymes with ass ho…
But then again, in an overcrowded rat experiment run amok, what can we expect of the inmates.
Something I never really liked about these labels is that in a sense they let the person off the hook. “He couldn’t help it, he had a mental disease”. You see similar things with all these shows that try to psychoanalyse Hitler. “He did it because he was abnormal, he was a sociopath, etc.” No he did it because he was a normal right winger, and that’s what you get when right wingers act according to their beliefs.
Something I never really liked about these labels is that in a sense they let the person off the hook. "He couldn't help it, he had a mental disease". You see similar things with all these shows that try to psychoanalyse Hitler. "He did it because he was abnormal, he was a sociopath, etc." No he did it because he was a normal right winger, and that's what you get when right wingers act according to their beliefs.
I've always struggled with the idea of responsibility. I've seen and read stuff where it's argued that you can't judge abnormal personalities as evil if they don't conform to the laws of the land, because they are basically handicapped and incapable of judging their actions by the general consensus of 'right and wrong'. They have no concept of the right and wrong the rest of us use, so how can they be judged according to it?
They need to be put away and treated and educated and controlled to protect society, but punishing them for things they by definition can't control and don't understand is irrational. I have no problem with putting a psychopath in prison for life if he/she is a danger to others, but to protect society, not to punish. It's analogous to any other mental handicap, you wouldn't punish an autistic or Downs Syndrome person the same as everyone else, and psychopaths and sociopaths are just another mental handicap that is no fault of the sufferer.
Suppose you were in war, a great war with a neighboring tribe, or country, or religious sect, that wanted desperately to kill you and your kin in order to take what is yours, throw your bodies in the river (easier than burial) and record the great victory as their legacy. Their key warriors cared nothing for the lives of those they kill, old men, women, children, they are just the “others” that stand in the way of their own needs, of their own prejudices, their own self images. They have no compassion, they will kill those of a different tribe, different culture, different race, all for not only their own material gain but also for the instinctive distrust and joy of belittlement and defeat of the “others". Would you rather have people of this mentality defending you when the “others" come over the hill, or would you great the berserkers with cold beer and warm wishes. Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on your situation, aggression defeats compassion, but compassion provides survival. This is part and parcel of the human psyche. Aggression is more common in the Y chromosome and compassion more common in the X chromosome, it is just human… there are many different expressions in kind and depth of the same instinctive patterns of human behavior, from infancy to old age. And if you doubt this, observe human behavior in day cares and nursing homes, and of course, in the immensely popular game of football. Behavioral change? Not likely. Go Bronkos.
Suppose you were in war, a great war with a neighboring tribe, or country, or religious sect, that wanted desperately to kill you and your kin in order to take what is yours, throw your bodies in the river (easier than burial) and record the great victory as their legacy. Their key warriors cared nothing for the lives of those they kill, old men, women, children, they are just the "others" that stand in the way of their own needs, of their own prejudices, their own self images. They have no compassion, they will kill those of a different tribe, different culture, different race, all for not only their own material gain but also for the instinctive distrust and joy of belittlement and defeat of the “others". Would you rather have people of this mentality defending you when the “others" come over the hill...
I'd rather have persons who can effectively compartmentalize the brutal part of our nature, let it shine when the dire need arises, and then reintegrate into a compassionate society when the need for it has passed.
I’d rather have persons who can effectively compartmentalize the brutal part of our nature, let it shine when the dire need arises, and then reintegrate into a compassionate society when the need for it has passed.
Yes, I would also strongly favor those people that can, and do, compartmentalize and utilize those elements of their nature that help the group to survive when it is necessary to express them. But unfortunately unlike a computer program that can be turn on and turned off these behavioral traits vary in intensity and depth between both individuals and groups: and I think that culture also plays a big part. Culture can effect how and when various behavioral traits are expressed and religion is a big part of culture. We humans have a great deal of baggage.
But unfortunately unlike a computer program that can be turn on and turned off these behavioral traits vary in intensity and depth between both individuals and groups
Excellent point. This is why our massive, diverse society has so many extremes of behavior.
But unfortunately unlike a computer program that can be turn on and turned off these behavioral traits vary in intensity and depth between both individuals and groups
Excellent point. This is why our massive, diverse society has so many extremes of behavior.
Tolerating behavioral extremes to the extent that they are not too generally destructive, is not a bad idea, considering that extreme changes in overall contingencies can, conceivably, happen.
But responding to an earlier "Go Bronkos!" statement. I would say, that since the Cowboys are not in the Superbowl, I am uncommitted. My sympathies are in favor of the Bronco, Peyton Manning, being able to retire as a Superbowl Champion, but since the game is being played at near sea-level, I would probably bet on the Panthers.
I gave up on the Cowboys when they traded a #1 pick for a mediocre receiver from Detroit. For what it’s worth, playing at sea level could benefit the Broncos. They’ll have more energy than they’re use to having coming down from a mile high. Even though i live in the area now I can’t get excited about the Broncos. It would be nice to see Peyton go out on top, but he has a history of coming up small in the playoffs and Super Bowl. And Cam is from Texas, so that gives me a reason to root for the Panthers. I just hope it is a good game and not a blowout.
I gave up on the Cowboys when they traded a #1 pick for a mediocre receiver from Detroit. For what it's worth, playing at sea level could benefit the Broncos. They'll have more energy than they're use to having coming down from a mile high. Even though i live in the area now I can't get excited about the Broncos. It would be nice to see Peyton go out on top, but he has a history of coming up small in the playoffs and Super Bowl. And Cam is from Texas, so that gives me a reason to root for the Panthers. I just hope it is a good game and not a blowout.
That's one way to look at the oxygen advantage. But consider that the Broncos won 7 out of 9 games at high altitude, while half of their losses were at less than a mile high.
But I, too, would prefer a close game, and good commercials. (Cam is from Texas? That could explain why he is such a show off.)
Suppose you were in war, a great war with a neighboring tribe, or country, or religious sect, that wanted desperately to kill you and your kin in order to take what is yours, throw your bodies in the river (easier than burial) and record the great victory as their legacy. Their key warriors cared nothing for the lives of those they kill, old men, women, children, they are just the "others" that stand in the way of their own needs, of their own prejudices, their own self images. They have no compassion, they will kill those of a different tribe, different culture, different race, all for not only their own material gain but also for the instinctive distrust and joy of belittlement and defeat of the “others". Would you rather have people of this mentality defending you when the “others" come over the hill...
I'd rather have persons who can effectively compartmentalize the brutal part of our nature, let it shine when the dire need arises, and then reintegrate into a compassionate society when the need for it has passed.A balanced introspective human - is a beautiful, if increasingly rare, thing.
I gave up on the Cowboys when they traded a #1 pick for a mediocre receiver from Detroit. For what it's worth, playing at sea level could benefit the Broncos. They'll have more energy than they're use to having coming down from a mile high. Even though i live in the area now I can't get excited about the Broncos. It would be nice to see Peyton go out on top, but he has a history of coming up small in the playoffs and Super Bowl. And Cam is from Texas, so that gives me a reason to root for the Panthers. I just hope it is a good game and not a blowout.
Oh yeah, no blow out please.
Not that I've watched one game yet this year - usually I do get in the Superbowl game, maybe a monday night game or two,
since some friends are big Football fans and it's a fun party to attend and get in a little dose of grid iron carnage.
A couple years back I arrived slightly late, but just in time to watch the opening play go down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBP_t808xEI
And it never got any better.
It wasn't much of a party that year, I'll tell ya that.
I'm staying home today.
Go Broncos ! [waving flag smilie]
(Cam is from Texas? That could explain why he is such a show off.)
At least he's not a sociopath.Darron, don't leave people with the impression that we Texans have more than our fair share of sociopaths. Oh wait... we have more Republicans... never mind.
I gave up on the Cowboys when they traded a #1 pick for a mediocre receiver from Detroit. For what it's worth, playing at sea level could benefit the Broncos. They'll have more energy than they're use to having coming down from a mile high. Even though i live in the area now I can't get excited about the Broncos. It would be nice to see Peyton go out on top, but he has a history of coming up small in the playoffs and Super Bowl. And Cam is from Texas, so that gives me a reason to root for the Panthers. I just hope it is a good game and not a blowout.
That's one way to look at the oxygen advantage. But consider that the Broncos won 7 out of 9 games at high altitude, while half of their losses were at less than a mile high.
Told ya so. :cheese:
(Cam is from Texas? That could explain why he is such a show off.)
At least he's not a sociopath.Darron, don't leave people with the impression that we Texans have more than our fair share of sociopaths. Oh wait... we have more Republicans... never mind.and oil men