Covid Lab Leak

China is accountable for the epidemic. the cost would be tremendous and behind the monetary cost, a loss of ” face”, meaning personal respect, reputation, honor. dignity and so.
If you say so. Though epidemic is the key concept here.

What about Trump being the one that’s definitely responsible (as all the public evidence and known facts point to) for taking this particular corona virus and turning it into a global pandemic, but we aren’t supposed to mention that part of this.

The malicious narcissistic slob - he’s got the same hold on peoples hearts as Mussolini, Hitler did. Eventually they’ll turn on him, but the damage will be done.


He Could Have Seen What Was Coming: Behind Trump’s Failure on the Virus

An examination reveals the president was warned about the potential for a pandemic but that internal divisions, lack of planning and his faith in his own instincts led to a halting response.

By Eric Lipton, David E. Sanger, Maggie Haberman, Michael D. Shear, Mark Mazzetti and Julian E. Barnes
Published April 11, 2020 Updated April 26, 2021


A pandemic plan was in place. Trump abandoned it — and science — in the face of Covid-19
By Jason Karlawish - By Jason Karlawish May 17, 2020


Timeline of Trump’s Coronavirus Responses
April 6, 2021 - Congressman Doggett


How Trump damaged science — and why it could take decades to recover

The US president’s actions have exacerbated the pandemic that has killed more than 200,000 people in the United States, rolled back environmental and public-health regulations and undermined science and scientific institutions. Some of the harm could be permanent.
Jeff Tollefson - October, 2020


Four ways Trump has meddled in pandemic science — and why it matters
How US President Donald Trump and his administration have silenced scientists, meddled in their reports and ignored their advice.
Giuliana Viglione - November 3, 2020




Joe Biden orders US intelligence to intensify efforts to study Covid’s origin


with the completely unbiased subhead: “President also asks US intelligence community to explore the unlikely possibility that virus origins trace to Chinese lab”

Joe Biden has ordered the US intelligence community to intensify its efforts to study the origins of coronavirus, adding that it will continue to press for China to participate in a full investigation.

The president said he received a report earlier this month with the “most up-to-date analysis of the origins of Covid-19”, but had asked intelligence agencies to “redouble” their efforts to identify a “definitive conclusion” on how the virus was first transmitted in humans.

“I have now asked the intelligence community to redouble their efforts to collect and analyze information that could bring us closer to a definitive conclusion, and to report back to me in 90 days. As part of that report, I have asked for areas of further inquiry that may be required, including specific questions for China,” Biden said in a statement on Wednesday.

So is this straight up weaponising the Covid pandemic, possibly with a side order of pandering to the Trumpistas, or are they paving the way for a change of narrative on the origin of Covid?

I’d say changing the narrative is most likely. The fact is even the most thorough investigation probably won’t give a definite answer about the origin.

Really the big issue here is the declining trust in scientists and politicians. One year ago lab leak theories were immediately dismissed as xenophobic fear-mongering by the same peoples now calling for more investigations into this possibility. The public can see that our scientific “elites” are mainly driven by ideology rather than science.

What you and most Americans don’t understand is that Science is dictated by the facts at hand.

The public can see that our scientific “elites” are mainly driven by ideology rather than science.
That contrived fabricated bull poop! "The public can see" what people with strong biases and bottomless pockets and huge megaphones are yelling at us!

Back to the good ol GASLIGHTING theme.

Just like Steven Koonin with his new book roasting climate scientists with the same discredited bs being peddled three decades. Now we’ve had three more decades of continued global warming and the sign are slapping us in the face right and left and still, climate scientists are the one’s being given the bad name, never the PR machine that bent on misrepresenting, misdirections - unfortunately, scientists and rationals haven’t seemed to figure out how to get discuss back on point, that is explaining the facts, how they were interpreted, and how to move forward toward uncovering more details.

Instead it’s just the hysterical headlines folks want to talk about.

Really the big issue here is the declining trust in scientists and politicians.
NO - the big issue is the shameless lies that scientists are being framed with, and the lack of interest or focus to really examine issues and learn from them.

Oh and it’s always amazing hearing trump supporters talking about integrity and trust as they cling to every piece of cr&p the idiot spouts. Oh yeah, he tells us he’s the smartest, most competent person that ever lived. Yeah, right, and scientists can’t be trusted, you tell us all about it.


For all the right wing hysteria about origins, the bottom line remains we know new viruses will show up, our medical experts know how to deal with it. Why has trump gotten way with shackling those experts and making this COVID epidemic into a unhinged global pandemic, which probably a few ugly lessons to teach us before its done.

Science is nothing without scientists. And scientists can be driven by ideology to the point where they cover up or distort facts.

There’s no evidence covid first emerged from Wuhan. It was the first case reported but evidence of Covid was present in Spain/Italy and misdiagnosed as flu in US—all prior to Wuhan

My older son (age 32) thinks that all those “vaping deaths” just before COVID broke out, was actually COVID and had nothing to do with vaping, but they used their illness to give vaping a bad rap. He makes his assumption by the symptoms the people had before they died. He doesn’t vape, but still feels that’s what all those deaths in the U.S. were really from and not at all from vaping. He also thinks that there was a lab here in the U.S. that aided in the COVID pandemic before it broke out in Wuhan.

My older son (age 32) thinks that all those “vaping deaths” just before COVID broke out, was actually COVID and had nothing to do with vaping, but they used their illness to give vaping a bad rap. He makes his assumption by the symptoms the people had before they died. He doesn’t vape, but still feels that’s what all those deaths in the U.S. were really from and not at all from vaping. He also thinks that there was a lab here in the U.S. that aided in the COVID pandemic before it broke out in Wuhan.
Rumors and rumors. In France adepts of conspiracy theories telle that Institute Pasteur, one of the main French institutions named from his founder, has created covid.

We need proved facts.


My older son (age 32) thinks that all those “vaping deaths” just before COVID broke out, was actually COVID and had nothing to do with vaping, but they used their illness to give vaping a bad rap. He makes his assumption by the symptoms the people had before they died. He doesn’t vape, but still feels that’s what all those deaths in the U.S. were really from and not at all from vaping. He also thinks that there was a lab here in the U.S. that aided in the COVID pandemic before it broke out in Wuhan.
Tell him to stop vaping. It is just as damaging to the lungs as smoking. Compromised lungs are susceptible to infection and the Covid virus especially likes the lungs . That's how it kills you. Hence the two may well be directly connected.

We DO KNOW vaping is a man-made addiction. So let’s start with curing man-made bad habits. I did. It’s easy if sufficiently motivated.


I’m sure you’ve tried many approaches, Mriana. At 32, that’s a challenge. I know I ramble on a lot about “listening to understand”, but sometimes, it doesn’t seem to matter. I’m not suggesting you give up, far from it. Just being with him might be something you can do. I haven’t heard of dangers from second-hand vaping, the smoke is bad of course, but I haven’t heard that’s worse than any other second-hand smoke.

My son doesn’t vape, but he still believes it’s better than tobacco. I don’t know if it is or not, but that’s not his point in this case. He believes the people died of COVID-19 instead.

He’s going by these articles concerning U.S. military labs causing it:


Weaponised covid…


-One of those moments when thousands of media sheep worldwide strive to prove that “journalism” is merely paid bleating & playing “follow the leader”.
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| The Independent

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etc etc etc



@sobalina You give a list of articles with no links (just as well, given it would go to the spam filter and we’d have to approve it) talking about COVID being weaponized. If you read the articles my son shared with me months ago, and I share with you in the previous post, you’d see, especially since one is with the U.S. military, we’re talking about the same thing. I’m not saying my son is right or wrong, but when I saw this crap breaking out in China, my first thought was “germ warfare?” The virus MIGHT have been a weapon long before you started complaining about it being weaponized or a cigar might just be a cigar. The thing is, without a real and full scientific investigation, the world will never know what the real origin of the virus was. We need to know the actual origin- a lab (be it a U.S. lab or a Wuhan lab) or zoonotic. We also need to know if the virus came from a military lab, if it was meant to be used for germ warfare or if it was just an accident and we need to make improvements worldwide so it doesn’t happen again. If it was germ warfare, did the Chinese steal it from a U.S. military and tried to study it so they could use it against others and they screwed up. So many questions and no answers. China could be right. It could have came from a U.S. military lab and ended up at the Wuhan lab. I’m not saying none of these articles should be read, but I am saying everything needs to be considered and investigated so that the world knows and not just given an answer which they are to believe, whether they do or not.

sounds like Biden spreading trump conspiracy theories enabled by the liberial media now willing to promote this.

@richo sabolina didn’t give even one link, so there is no evidence of that. The wall of words @sabolina posted are just that- just words, especially without links. There’s at least one alleged article that is an opinion piece, which is just that- an opinion. Again, even that means nothing without evidence.

Thanks Marina. Just calling it as i see it. Those screaming that we need to follow the science during the Trump days are not doing so now during the Biden days.

Yes, we’ve all read those articles too or at least I have. However, IMHO, the most damning one, that says it wasn’t from nature, is the one I posted a page back from the military website. My son gave me the link because even he thinks it brings into question the nature origin. If that is true, we need to investigate and not just take the Chinese government’s word for it.

I dont value reference to Military sources on this. Stick to the science please

It dealt with Military science labs, so it was sticking with the science.

no papers and no reference to the actual scientists. Stick to science please

I see the issue. The military link doesn’t work anymore, but this one does:

No papers, except for closure order papers, are needed to shutdown a lab for spilling viruses. If the CDC finds a lab is not practicing safety procedures and a virus gets out or has the potential for getting out, they can shut it down, even if it is a military lab. Now for the link of the military site, the Chinese (scientists, I think it was) visited the military lab before the CDC shut it down for not following protocol, allowing at least one virus out of the lab. This leads us to the China outbreak from science labs, which the Chinese government may be covering up and not letting people know about. This in only one plausible theory and this is what is potentially being investigated. We don’t need any scientific papers or studies on this. All we need is an investigation as to whether or not it happened.