Gee, they are figuring out that the Confederate flag is all about racism, rage and hate.
OK, sure it’s a cherished symbol of a proud southern heritage……………….
………………………………………………………………………………………… a heritage of racism, certitude of superiority and hate.
Some heritage is worth burying.
http://www.npr.org/2015/06/23/416736911/s-c-governor-asks-state-lawmakers-to-remove-confederate-flag-from-capitol-ground
Gov. Nikki Haley on Monday called for the Confederate flag to be removed from the state capitol, following the shooting last week at the historic black church in Charleston. Nine people died.
I totally agree with Haley and her fellow critics that the flag belongs in a museum and not on the Statehouse grounds for several reasons. First of all the Statehouse represents ALL of the citizens of that State and not just those who wish to honor their ancestors. To African-Americans e.g. it is has always represented oppression and hatred, not heritage, and it is most symbolic of the Southern Confederacy because S.C. is where it began. That being said, this has sparked a growing movement to virtually wipe the flag out of society altogether and this will spark a backlash especially among the Southerners who see this as an attack on what they consider is their unique cultural history. Now critics are calling for the removal of statues of Confederate leaders and renaming street names and parks. My advise is to let the dust settle before anyone attacks a statue of Robert E. Lee with a sledgehammer.
Cap’t Jack
There could be an increase in southern pride i.e. hate crimes, if the flag comes down.
Which, incidentally, would demonstrate the type of people who want this flag flown.So what?
They don't care about called out as racists, and what politician wants more dead bodies on their historical record?
Now critics are calling for the removal of statues of Confederate leaders and renaming street names and parks. My advise is to let the dust settle before anyone attacks a statue of Robert E. Lee with a sledgehammer.
Cap't Jack
There could be an increase in southern pride i.e. hate crimes, if the flag comes down.
Which, incidentally, would demonstrate the type of people who want this flag flown.So what?
They don't care about called out as racists, and what politician wants more dead bodies on their historical record?
Black people are tax paying citizens too and have a right to feel their government represents them and that their government is not literally waving a flag on it's property that clearly is used to as a symbol of racism. The flag gives racist whites a feeling of superiority. It has to be removed, ethically. You're suggesting to me that they not remove it under the idea that fear should govern their decision and ultimately allow it to fly? So the government is supposed to negotiate with violent people now? So, when African Americans where fighting for civil rights in the 60s, your same argument could be used--if we grant civil rights, it will only make the super-racists angry and there will be more violence...That argument could easily be applied to any ridiculous situation when there is disagreement and the potential for backlash. Why don't you take this plan to a group of African Americans and see how well it's received?
Secondly, what politician wants more dead bodies on their historical record? A lot of them. They take money from the NRA and bend to their will. Look at Sandyhook elementary shooting and all the rest...if children getting shot up in school doesn't convince certain politicians to take action, I don't know what will.
Secondly, what politician wants more dead bodies on their historical record? A lot of them. They take money from the NRA and bend to their will. Look at Sandyhook elementary shooting and all the rest...if children getting shot up in school doesn't convince certain politicians to take action, I don't know what will.
Oh My Goodness, you're one of those conspiracy theorists who believe the NRA orchestrated the Sandyhook shootings. Now I'm sure I put you in the correct category. The loony bin.
Secondly, what politician wants more dead bodies on their historical record? A lot of them. They take money from the NRA and bend to their will. Look at Sandyhook elementary shooting and all the rest...if children getting shot up in school doesn't convince certain politicians to take action, I don't know what will.
Oh My Goodness, you're one of those conspiracy theorists who believe the NRA orchestrated the Sandyhook shootings. Now I'm sure I put you in the correct category. The loony bin.
I don't know how you extrapolate that from my statement...
1). All I said was that the NRA donates to political causes; which is true, right? Please correct me if I am wrong...
2). Most perplexing, why would you think or suggest the NRA orchestrated the shootings? If anything, they don't want these mass shootings as it only leads to more talk and push for gun regulations. If anything, they want to paint guns in the best light they can, not bring national and global attention to gun violence in the U.S. Please explain your logic here...
Secondly, what politician wants more dead bodies on their historical record? A lot of them. They take money from the NRA and bend to their will. Look at Sandyhook elementary shooting and all the rest…if children getting shot up in school doesn’t convince certain politicians to take action, I don’t know what will.
More importantly, several Republican politicians have been receiving funds from the so called "Conservative Citizens Council" a blatantly racist organization that has promoted segregation since it's inception. When the press uncovered their contributions, these politicians quickly attempted to distance themselves from the organization and some even claimed they didn't know their agenda. It remains to be seen how those politicians will fair in the next election but right now their chances are zilch for re-election. Unfortunately the public has a short memory. We still have a long way to go but removing the flag of rebellion and race hatred is a start. It's a pitiful shame that it took the lives of nine innocent people to finally unmask the truth of ignorance and intolerance that still boils beneath the surface of our society.
Cap't Jack
You're suggesting to me that they not remove it under the idea that fear should govern their decision and ultimately allow it to fly? So the government is supposed to negotiate with violent people now? So, when African Americans where fighting for civil rights in the 60s, your same argument could be used--if we grant civil rights, it will only make the super-racists angry and there will be more violence...That argument could easily be applied to any ridiculous situation when there is disagreement and the potential for backlash. Why don't you take this plan to a group of African Americans and see how well it's received?
Never said they should leave it up forever, just that the potential for violence is in the air - and more so than usual. Politicians should be wary of that.
TVA's post mentioned letting things cool off, and thats the best plan.
Secondly, what politician wants more dead bodies on their historical record? A lot of them. They take money from the NRA and bend to their will. Look at Sandyhook elementary shooting and all the rest...if children getting shot up in school doesn't convince certain politicians to take action, I don't know what will.
You're confusing things here. Most Americans support gun rights and don't believe that politicians are to blame for mass shootings, politicians are aware of this and don't fear their reputations being tarnished. However, violence mixed with racial issues is something every politician dreads having to deal with in modern America.
The choice was we could either talk about guns laws in the wake of this shooting or we could talk about race. Gun laws are pretty much a non-standard, so the conversation turned to race. As someone who was born in the now, and now finds himself trapped in the South, and has to see constant reminders of the Confederacy, I am happy to have the flags and statues taken down.
You're suggesting to me that they not remove it under the idea that fear should govern their decision and ultimately allow it to fly? So the government is supposed to negotiate with violent people now? So, when African Americans where fighting for civil rights in the 60s, your same argument could be used--if we grant civil rights, it will only make the super-racists angry and there will be more violence...That argument could easily be applied to any ridiculous situation when there is disagreement and the potential for backlash. Why don't you take this plan to a group of African Americans and see how well it's received?
Never said they should leave it up forever, just that the potential for violence is in the air - and more so than usual. Politicians should be wary of that.
TVA's post mentioned letting things cool off, and thats the best plan.
Secondly, what politician wants more dead bodies on their historical record? A lot of them. They take money from the NRA and bend to their will. Look at Sandyhook elementary shooting and all the rest...if children getting shot up in school doesn't convince certain politicians to take action, I don't know what will.
You're confusing things here. Most Americans support gun rights and don't believe that politicians are to blame for mass shootings, politicians are aware of this and don't fear their reputations being tarnished. However, violence mixed with racial issues is something every politician dreads having to deal with in modern America.
Interesting. I've heard many citizens upset politicians have failed to tighten gun control. I believe the President even expressed this sentiment.
You're suggesting to me that they not remove it under the idea that fear should govern their decision and ultimately allow it to fly? So the government is supposed to negotiate with violent people now? So, when African Americans where fighting for civil rights in the 60s, your same argument could be used--if we grant civil rights, it will only make the super-racists angry and there will be more violence...That argument could easily be applied to any ridiculous situation when there is disagreement and the potential for backlash. Why don't you take this plan to a group of African Americans and see how well it's received?
Never said they should leave it up forever, just that the potential for violence is in the air - and more so than usual. Politicians should be wary of that.
TVA's post mentioned letting things cool off, and thats the best plan.
Secondly, what politician wants more dead bodies on their historical record? A lot of them. They take money from the NRA and bend to their will. Look at Sandyhook elementary shooting and all the rest...if children getting shot up in school doesn't convince certain politicians to take action, I don't know what will.
You're confusing things here. Most Americans support gun rights and don't believe that politicians are to blame for mass shootings, politicians are aware of this and don't fear their reputations being tarnished. However, violence mixed with racial issues is something every politician dreads having to deal with in modern America.
Interesting. I've heard many citizens upset politicians have failed to tighten gun control. I believe the President even expressed this sentiment.
Americans tend to shoot themselves in the foot, literally. I don't know why they are so utterly stupid.
Lois
And the backlash is already starting; some Republican politicians are likening the flag (and now statue) issue with ISIS destroying religious temples and statues. Of course the latter are thousands of years old and archeological treasures while the former are now seen to be symbols of race hatred, subjection, and white supremacy and are less than a century old. Somehow I don’t see the connection.
Cap’t Jack
And the backlash is already starting; some Republican politicians are likening the flag (and now statue) issue with ISIS destroying religious temples and statues. Of course the latter are thousands of years old and archeological treasures while the former are now seen to be symbols of race hatred, subjection, and white supremacy and are less than a century old. Somehow I don't see the connection.
Cap't Jack
I see the connection. The rebel flag belongs in a museum, with an explanation of what it symbolizes.
I see the connection. The rebel flag belongs in a museum, with an explanation of what it symbolizes.
Agreed, and here's my suggestion in the form of a compromise, first and foremost revisionist history needs to be tossed in the trash bin, e.g. The Civil War (yes the Civil War not the "War of Northern aggression or the "War between the States" because the Southern States violated the Constitution by committing an act of treason) was about retaining slavery; it was the central issue for secession even though there were other tertiary "State's Rights" arguments e.g. high protective tariffs and a national banking system. So, let's put the blame where it belongs, squarely on the shoulders of the Southern planter class who controlled the state legislatures. That being said, most of the soldiers who fought in the Southern Armies did NOT own slaves nor could they afford one. Descendants of those soldiers, and those who enjoy studying the history of the period no matter what their background deserve a place to do so. I propose the building of State museums dedicated to displaying artifacts of the former rebellion and placing the flags, statues and other memorabilia there. Some Southern (and Northern states for that matter) already have said museums. I've personally visited a few as well as most of the major battlefields where monuments abound, and there they should stay. These were dedicated by the survivors as memorials to their fallen comrades. Once again, I have no problem with that aspect of memorializing the participants of the War and not the reason for secession. It was after all a "lost cause" based on an antiquated and cruel pre-industrial system doomed to fail anyway, but it was a large piece of American History that was a pivotal point in further developing the U.S.
Cap't Jack
well said, hope you don’t mind me spreading it out a little bit.
I see the connection. The rebel flag belongs in a museum, with an explanation of what it symbolizes.
Agreed, and here's my suggestion in the form of a compromise, first and foremost revisionist history needs to be tossed in the trash bin, e.g.
The Civil War (yes the Civil War not the "War of Northern aggression or the "War between the States" because the Southern States violated the Constitution by committing an act of treason) was about retaining slavery; it was the central issue for secession even though there were other tertiary "State's Rights" arguments e.g. high protective tariffs and a national banking system.
So, let's put the blame where it belongs, squarely on the shoulders of the Southern planter class who controlled the state legislatures. That being said, most of the soldiers who fought in the Southern Armies did NOT own slaves nor could they afford one.
Descendants of those soldiers, and those who enjoy studying the history of the period no matter what their background deserve a place to do so. I propose the building of State museums dedicated to displaying artifacts of the former rebellion and placing the flags, statues and other memorabilia there. Some Southern (and Northern states for that matter) already have said museums. I've personally visited a few as well as most of the major battlefields where monuments abound, and there they should stay. These were dedicated by the survivors as memorials to their fallen comrades.
Once again, I have no problem with that aspect of memorializing the participants of the War and not the reason for secession. It was after all a "lost cause" based on an antiquated and cruel pre-industrial system doomed to fail anyway, but it was a large piece of American History that was a pivotal point in further developing the U.S.
Cap't Jack
One for the road
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jREUrbGGrgM