Do you have anything to contribute @DJtexas? Or are you just going to keep putting down everything everyone else says? You are the modern version of the guy on the corner with a sign that says “The End is Near”.
Mr Head, that’s exactly what you said. Changing the infrastructure which is all you have suggested when asked what is to be done to prevent catastrophic AGW, does jack to global emissions which in turn means it will surely end us with runaway effectsThat wasn't the question. And that wasn't the question I answered.
But it is a question you have yet to answer.
I would love to see the faces of your grand kids when you told them this comforting news -- DJMy generation, X, and really before that, have known more about the failure of civilizations than any previous. We know because we understand our past so much better. We know civilizations fall and have some ideas about why. I think we could survive a 9 billion person planet, and that trends are already in the works for that peak to come back down. Or, maybe not, hard to say. I don't think we should have that as some sort of goal certainly. We could reduce the population in a completely peaceful way over just 100 years or so. We could all even out our consumption without governments fighting over it or making policies, but that probably won't happen either.
Every generation of “grandkids” at some point in their life has realized they are being left with a problem, that the world their grandparents created is flawed and unworkable and needs to change. The ones who don’t see it are usually the problem.
We could reduce the population in a completely peaceful way over just 100 years or so. We could all even out our consumption without governments fighting over it or making policies, but that probably won’t happen either.That would require 100 years of zero growth, else the exponential function will continue to grow the population. Zero growth is only accomplished if deaths equal births. How can that be legislated?
Just 1 % growth p/yr will double the population in 70 years from 9 billion to 18 billion. The current world population growth is @ 1.02 %, which means a doubling time of 70/1.02 = 68.66 yr.
Can we get population growth down to zero percent? How would we accomplish that without actually killing people? In nature, this is an acceptable way of controlling population growth. In human society, it is “mass murder”.
Can we get population growth down to zero percent? How would we accomplish that without actually killing people? In nature, this is an acceptable way of controlling population growth. In human society, it is “mass murder”. - write4uKilling isn't specifically nessesary, sterilisation would do it as well. Of course the enforcment of such a project on global scale is challenging.
I just took the first hit that wasn’t a response to conspiracy theories about Gates wanting to kill people. A Conversation with Bill Gates: Population Growth | Bill Gates
What he’s saying is, based on lots of data, is that we need to bring the kind of stability that we in the US have grown accustomed to, to nations where people are having 7 children because they have no elderly care, not even something simple like a grain bin to store excess harvests. Also, we dump our commodities on them in the name of feeding the starving and further disrupt their economies. This is too much for one post, and I don’t have the exact predicted time scales. My 100 year statement came from calculations made by the guy who wrote the book about what the earth would be like if all the humans disappeared tomorrow.
So, no, you don’t have to kill anyone. It would mean the end of some cultures and that’s why we don’t do it. The Dorito munching, football watching culture should be the first to be eliminated. The cultures that are more like humans were 3,000 years ago would take note of that. They would also notice that we aren’t killing each other to get their precious metals or whatever they live on.
Alan Weisman said 80 years actually, but it was a live talk, unrecorded, and I don’t know if he published his figures. Here’s an interview where he discusses the issues and gives the example of bringing birth control to Iran. By completely free choice, they reduced their population growth. Orion Magazine - Crowded Planet
The was the question Head. That why I gave the titanic analogy as in on course to an inevitable disaster.
You turned it into sonething else.
I was checking references because I thought I had heard that either China or Japan have a negative population growth, and found a quick hit, brief article:
https://www.thoughtco.com/negative-population-growth-1435471
Some numbers:
Ukraine: 0.8% natural decrease annually; 28% total population decrease by 2050 Russia: -0.6%; -22% Belarus: -0.6%; -12% Bulgaria: -0.5%; -34% Latvia: -0.5%; -23% Lithuania: -0.4%; -15%In 2017, the Population Reference Bureau released a fact sheet showing that the top five countries expected to lose population between then and 2050 were:
China: -44.3%
Japan: -24.8%
Ukraine: -8.8%
Poland: -5.8%
Romania: -5.7%
Most of these countries represent a tiny proportion to the world population - China being the obvious exception. The article doesn’t get into “why”
Lausten could you answer 347010? I would like to explore what you meant by corrupt society and the ways to fix it in as you put it in this thread about climate change.
Population growth control is not an option. Anyone who brings this up has obviously not read the IPCC reports or taken the time to explore AGW websites that explains what the science says is required
I say this here because I think society as we know is corrupted in ways we can see and understand and the ways to fix it are available to us.I cannot answer for Lausten, i can answer for me.
Society is corrupted by money, by capitalism, by individualism, by fanaticism and by egotism.
The four are linked.
The way to repair our society ?
Imagine
John Lennon 1971
Imagine there’s no heaven
It’s easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today…
Imagine there’s no countries
It isn’t hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace…
You may say I’m a dreamer
But I’m not the only one
I hope someday you’ll join us
And the world will be one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world…
You may say I’m a dreamer
But I’m not the only one
I hope someday you’ll join us
And the world will live as one
And to fight climate change effectively, we need to repair our society.
Automated translation of a famous French song:
Les loups sont entrés dans Paris
The wolves entered Paris
Men had lost the taste
For living, and didn’t care about anything
About their mothers, brothers, girlfriends
For them, that was only playacting
The sky became wild again
The concrete was eating up the landscape… then
The wolves, ououh! ououououh!
The wolves were far away from Paris
In Croatia, in Germany
The wolves were far away from Paris
I loved your laugh, charming Elvire
The wolves were far away from Paris.
But they do 50 leagues1
A night, in Indian file
As soon as they scent a feast
Of dead corpses on the battlefield
As soon as fear haunts the streets
The wolves are coming along after dark… then
The wolves, ououh! ououououh!
The wolves looked toward Paris
From Croatia, from Germany
The wolves looked toward Paris
You can smile, charming Elvire
The wolves are looking toward Paris.
And that’s when came a harsh winter
A hundred congestions in the current news
Closed shutters, one’s teeth were chattering with cold
Even in the beautiful districts
And nobody ventured out on night
To brave the snow of boulevards… then
Some wolves, ououh! ououououh!
Some wolves entered Paris
One by Issy, the other one by Ivry2
Two wolves entered Paris
Ah you can laugh, charming Elvire
Two wolves entered Paris
The first wolf had but one eye
He was an old male from Krivoï
He settled down his ten females
In the thin square of Grenelle
And nourished his two hundred youngs
With the children of Passy3… then
A hundred wolves, ououh! ououououh!
A hundred wolves entered Paris
Either by Issy, or by Ivry
A hundred wolves entered Paris
Stop laughing, charming Elvire
A hundred wolves entered Paris
The second wolf had but three paws
He was a grey wolf from the Carpathians
That they called Lent-Taking
He made his youngs eat meat4
And offered them six ministries
And all the pounds’ guards… then
The wolves, ououh! ououououh!
The wolves invaded Paris
Either by Issy, or by Ivry
The wolves invaded Paris
Stop laughing, charming Elvire
The wolves invaded Paris.
Enticed by the smell of blood
A huge amount of wolves came5
To enjoy the feast and the meat6
In this rotten country of France
Until men recovered
Love and brotherhood… then
The wolves ououh! ououououh!
The wolves went out of Paris
Either by Issy, or by Ivry
The wolves went out of Paris
You can smile, charming Elvire
The wolves went out of Paris
I like your laugh, charming Elvire
The wolves went out of Paris…
Lausten could you answer 347010? -- DJI don't have a lot of ideas on how to fix corruption. If I ever did, I'm too old for that. I think the most important to do right now is learn to talk to our neighbors again. One of the things corrupt leaders have done is turn us against each other. We can ignore them and treat each other like the valuable members of society that we are, or we can believe that the guy mowing his lawn next door is actually tearing apart the fabric of the nation.
Lausten, I was interested in what you said in 347005 in that “the ways to fix it are available to us.”
What do you mean here? And of course all this is within the framework of getting effective climate change policy
Society is corrupted by money, by capitalism, by individualism, by fanaticism and by egotism.The four are linked.
-Morgankane01
And linked to society as an opposite:
Capitalism, individualism, fanaticism, egotism - are all “Me First” attitudes
Society is an “Us” attitude.
Money is a tool, a carrier.
347089
Money is a tool?
??
Money is a tool?Yes. that's what I said
Money is a tool?Money is also speech. Money is everything! Money is also a great corruptor.
Money is the National Emblem.!
What do you mean here? -- djIf you were more clear when ask a question, I'd be more inclined to answer
"the ways to fix it are available to us.”
What do you mean by this?
Which “it” are you asking about? I’ve answered about climate and culture.